brownie Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 But, you've go to admit that it was a great off-the-cuff insult. Personally, I'd hate to be called a Gauleiter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randissimo Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Somewhere else in cyberspace, Doug Ramsey is asking... Who replaced Buddy Rich in Tommy Dorsey's band in October or November of 1942? He has looked high and low, but to no avail. Do you perchance have an answer for him, DEEP? CHRISTIERN (PAL O' MINE) [sEE YA AT NOLA ON MONDAY AT NOON], That is one sonofabitch of a question. Buddy Rich went into the Marines at that time but did do a guest radio shot with the band in early 1943. I think Petrillo put the recording band on in December of '42 so there is no documentation there. I don't think the band recorded in late '42 either. Shit, that question is a bitch. Stay tuned...I'll send out feelers on that one. See you on Monday. Booper will be there so you and she can sit side by side (she's kinda got a crush on you) while we finish this shit up. DEEP I believe the answer to that question can be found in Mel Torme's biography on Buddy, "Traps, Boy Wonder".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randissimo Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 OK, DILDIES, Here's a good question for all you DILDS. I was watching CHEERS tonight and noticed a flagrant legal violation in the set. I'm cuttin' out in the morning so I'll be off the radar screen for a bit, but if any of you are CHEERS nuts, tell me what there is about that set that is totally illegal in any bar today. (It has nothing to do with marked EXIT signs either...even though they are absent. It's much DEEPER than that.) Clue: COCONUT GROVE (BOSTON). Take care of this thread in my absence and don't let STAPLES destroy it with one of his infamous / nauseous RODOMONTADES!! DEEP No fire extinguishers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Just taking a guess, Deep, but doesn't the door on the Cheers set open in instead of out? (It's been a long time, but I seem to remember that being the case...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL) Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Just taking a guess, Deep, but doesn't the door on the Cheers set open in instead of out? (It's been a long time, but I seem to remember that being the case...) BINGO !! DEEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Christiern (PAL O' MINE), The movie Girl Crazy was filmed between Jan. 4th and May 19th 1943. A very dear friend of mine (now departed) named Moe Purtill was on drums with Dorsey in that movie. If he were still alive I'd have your answer but an educated guess would be the late, great MAURICE PURTILL. It wasn't Krupa, Patty. DEEP according to the Rhino/TCM cd "Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey Swinin' in Hollywood", Boy! What Love has Done to Me from Girl Crazy was recorded 12/23/42 ...of course, they don't list who the drummer was that day....does anyone remember who the drummer was in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL) Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) OK, WUMPS, Maurice Purtill was the drummer in Girl Crazy. I'm outta here until next week. Keep this thread neat, pristine, and squeaky clean. Remember, WRETCHEL and PATTY are ladies so all you Dildies watch your language. I got ORAGANISSIMO in the mail last night and screened the first few tracks. Excellent CD so far. I plan on putting it completely under the scope when I get back. Gotta do the final mix on the latest Big Band Bloviation in NYC. (See ya at Nola Studio noon on Monday, Christiern...I'll bring the jug). Don't forget your Christmas shopping folks: http://www.whodat.com/audio/dansextet/dimperio.htm If Staples chimes in with one of his infamous RODOMONTADES you Dildies handle it. GONE !! DEEP Edited December 13, 2003 by DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achtung Dr. Freud Calling Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 So what's going on over here zis fine Saturday morning? Anything that might require my immediate attention? I'm an expert in German history Pat.....vat exactly do you vant to know about military organizations or campaigns? Something about ze Battle of Tannenberg perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) So what's going on over here zis fine Saturday morning? Anything that might require my immediate attention? I'm an expert in German history Pat.....vat exactly do you vant to know about military organizations or campaigns? Something about ze Battle of Tannenberg perhaps? That's OK, but thank you for asking. German history is only of passing interest to me. At this time of year, you might want to discuss the origins of the tannenbaum though. BTW, my name is PATRICIA, not "PAT". I'm sure that the thread will carry on, even though I am only carrying one end of the massive log that the originator of the thread, my conscience, my nemisis and my editor has entrusted to us. So, let's keep this light, fun and civil. Edited December 16, 2003 by patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achtung Dr. Freud Calling Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 That's OK, but thank you for asking. German history is only of passing interest to me. At this time of year, you might want to discuss the origins of the tannenbaum though. Vell, if you insist, I'd be happy to chat it up about the origins of ze 'Christbaum' which dates back to the year 900 (give or take). Ze first trees however were probably decorated by the professional members of the bakers guild down in ze Black Forest region in the early 1400's --- in the city of Freiburg im Breisgau to be precise. Lovely university town, with an even lovelier little cd shop called O-Ton Musik that often has Mosaic sets on display that have been sold by university students and professors looking for weekend Rhine wine money. Now zat we've dispensed with all of this 'baum' business, isn't there something that I could tell you about Frederick the Great of Prussia's wars against our sternly Austrian Empress Maria Theresa in ze 1740's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) might be more in keeping with a jazz thread though. Ah yes Frau Pat, I'm terribly sorry ---- I must have missed ze discussion about jazz in ze first 15 pages of this exploding head graphic-laden thread zat I reviewed this morning over coffee and chocolate wafers. Would you kindly direct me to the salient points? B) Review the thread. After that, since most of the questions raised have been answered, I thought it would be interesting to take the thread in another direction. Don't you agree?? That is, unless you have a suggestion for discussion? For example, how many blues musicians [i know. I know. This is a jazz site, but the two are closely related] who had "blind" as part of their names were actually blind??? For example, Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Willie McTell, Blind Willie Johnson etc. There were so many, that it seems incomprehensable that there would be so many blind bluesmen. Expanding the nickname thing, there are tons of interesting ones in JAZZ, each one with an explanation of their origins. For example, "Shadow" Wilson. Why "Shadow"? "Dizzy" Gillespie. Why "Dizzy"? Sometimes it's an obvious reference to their instrument, or their personality sometimes not. Why not have a quiz that asks for the genesis of various Jazz musician's nicknames. This would give us a chance to learn about them and about their musical impact on jazz and their career at the same time. How about it?? Edited December 13, 2003 by patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 They called Zutty Singleton "Face"--I always assumed it was because he had one. It's the "Deep" that has me puzzled. Well, "Fat Girl" is another one to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Well, "Fat Girl" is another one to ponder. "Round" tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Round something, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) Well, "Fat Girl" is another one to ponder. "Round" tone? ------------------------------------------------------- As for the plastic bag obsession that seems rampant here, people just seem to expect to get a bag. I've always thought that it has to do with getting something free. Most people will insist on getting something free, if it's not a punch in the nose. Also, the store dicks assume that an item, with no bag is stolen, for some reason. Meanwhile, our landfills are crammed with non-recycleable garbage. "Zutty" still has me puzzled and all I can think of is that it was a childhood nickname. "Fats" Navarro was of generous proportion, but I wonder whether the "Fat Girl" nickname he had was a further playful put-down. Don't know about "Potato" Valdes though. Edited December 13, 2003 by patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Finally, why is is that North Americans have such a love affair vith the plastic bag? Every time they go into a store to purchase even a solitary little chocolate bar, they must have it placed inside a plastic bag. When I'm visiting the U.S. on holiday from Vienna, I always refuse a plastic bag if I have a manageable number of items that can be easily hand carried. ..... Liberal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 The "girl" part of "Fat Girl" came about because Navarro had a rather high-pitched voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 (edited) The "girl" part of "Fat Girl" came about because Navarro had a rather high-pitched voice. That makes sense. I know that Miles Davis, and everyone else referred to Navarro as "Fat Girl", with no sense that they were insulting him, which seemed to indicate that Navarro was OK with it and that it was a long-standing nickname. Oh, and "Potato" Valdes' name was actually Carlos "PATATO" Valdes, a legitimate name, that somehow turned into Potato when misunderstood as a real name by non-Latins, as far as I could discover. Does anyone have any better explanation?? Edited December 14, 2003 by patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 (edited) OK, Here are a couple of nicknames by which jazzers were widely known. It isn't just the name's origins which would be enlightening, but a discussion of the person's contribution to jazz, as an expansion of the topic. I guess what I mean is that bringing the various artists to the fore, by talking about their interesting nicknames, we could learn more about them. So, Let's start with Gene "Jug" Ammons. It would seem too simple to assume that the "Jug" moniker could have been because he was a heavy juicer. That wouldn't have set him apart from the many other jazzers who also were. Gene was with the Billy Eckstine band from 1944-47 and then he worked with his father, the fabulous Albert Ammons, under his own name. He was also featured in the Woody Herman band in 1949, before going with Sonny Stitt in 1952, co-leading a two tenor septet. There were a couple of speed-bumps in his career road in 1958-60 and again in 1964-69 due to drug offences. Ammons made one European trip in 1973, but died, at forty-nine from pneumonia, just after a successful appearance at the Montreaux Jazz Festival. Ammons' tenor style has often been compared to that of Lester Young as well as Ben Webster. However, his was unique to him and not a imitation of either one. It was a tone similar to Webster's with lines that bring to mind Young's lines. I particularly like his ballad-playing, but I like ballads. His style in turn influenced many later players, such as Johnny Griffin and Clifford Jordan. The interesting thing to me is that any innovations that Ammons brought to jazz were soon absorbed into the total language of jazz and are not generally credited to Ammons' as original. Ammons' 1950 tune, "Gravy" was the basis for the standard, "Walkin' " which was copyrighted by Ammons' manager, Richard Carpenter. So, the nickname thing is just a jumping off point for more information about the possesser of the name and I think could help us know more about the artists. By starting with the nickname, it would, I think, be an interesting direction to bring the standard bios of familiar and not so familiar ones into the light and find out more about them. For example, Mildred Bailey signed her early photographs "Face Bailey". Does anyone know why? She had another nickname, "The Rockin' Chair Lady", which stemmed from her hit, with Whiteman's orchestra, "Rockin' Chair", odd one for a young woman, which she was at the time. So, start with the nickname, and if you know where it came from, good, but tell us about them and their career. Edited December 15, 2003 by patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 "Gravy" was the basis for the standard, "Walkin' " which was copywrited by Ammons' manager, Richard Carpenter. Sorry to go off-topic for a minute, but I've heard and read that this guy Richard Carpenter really screwed some of his "clients" by basically stealing credit for tunes he had nothing to do with. He took advantage of various players who needed quick cash for "whatever", like Chet Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 That kind of thievery has been all too common in the music business, and it has been practiced by "respected" people. BTW, Copyright, Patricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) Oh, and "Potato" Valdes' name was actually Carlos "PATATO" Valdes, a legitimate name, that somehow turned into Potato when misunderstood as a real name by non-Latins, as far as I could discover. Does anyone have any better explanation?? Have you ever seen the dude's head before? It looks like a friggin' tuber! Edited December 15, 2003 by Big Wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 You say potato and I say PATATO. Great conga player. He was featured on several Herbie Mann cd and has been an in demand session player. Also has done some solo work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Ok a few highlights Patato was born November 4,1926 in Havana,Cuba. Vocalist Miguelito Valdes wanted to take him to New York about 1946 to perform but still being a minor he needed parental permission for a passport-permission denied-so Miguelito took Chano Pozo instead who took Patato's place in Dizzy Gillespie's Carnegie Hall that featured Afro-Cuban and Jazz elements which were really starting to merge at that time. Prior to coming to the US Valdes worked with Perez Prado and Benny More among others. When he came to the states one of the first recordings he worked on was Kenny Dorham's album "Afro Cuban". Valdes worked with Machito prior to hooking up with Herbie Mann. Valdes's association with Herbie Mann lasted nine years and one of the albums he recorded with Herbie "Live at Newport" is really good but I"m sure that describes a lot of the work the two did together. Other people that Patato worked for included JJ Johnson,Willie Bobo,Grant Green,Cal Tjader,Quincy Jones and Dizzy Gillespie. Patato also toured with Diz,Quincy and Tito Puente. Other highlights include apperances on the Bill Cosby show and a guest apperance on Cosby's short lived remake of "You Bet Your Life" and he also gave Brigette Bardot a Mambo lesson in the Bardot movie "And God Created Woman". Hope that helps some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinthopson Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 How about that forgotten blues singer Deaf Orange Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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