BLINDFOLD TEST #4 - DISCUSSION

[Big Wheel]

Man, I've had the head to disc 1, number 8 bouncing around my brain all day. For a sec I thought it might be Marchel Ivery, but the little I've heard of Ivery has more Joe Henderson in the tone. Listening again to this guy, I hear more Dex and Rouse, with a sprinkling of Stitt. I listened to some Rusty Bryant for the first time today to see if I could find a resemblance, but didn't hear one.

[rockefeller center]

I was watching "Straight, No Chaser" last night, fell asleep and woke up during "Ruby, My Dear" - disc 1, track 1 must be this tune, not "Ask Me Now" as I initially guessed. This blindfold test costs me sleep.

[Tom Storer]

Tracks 9-11 did not do much for me. Not sure what to say about those because to be honest I did not have much of a reaction. They sounded somewhat like oddities.

What occurs to me now about the juxtaposition of Disc 1 #9 (the funky drummer with the grunting vocals) and Disc 1 #10 (the drum solo some have likened to tap dancing) is that #9, while clearly more contemporary by some decades, is in fact less modern than #10. While #10 may sound quaint and old-fashioned, it is jazz while #9, in its rhythms and general feeling, harks way back to pre-jazz days. #10 has that relentless bass drum on every beat, but it's all the fancy stick-work on top that shows how jazz elaborated on earlier African-American rhythms. It's no longer just about groove; the drummer in #10 is composing his improvisation in a much more deliberate, dare I say "artistic," way.

[couw]

Interesting, Jim. I wouldn't have put much of this together (details on disc 1, track 5) without having some of you guys pointing me in the right direction, but what's surprising me a bit are the names being connected here (singer, arranger, orchestra leader). That's assuming that this info is correct, of course. Jim, do they have that drummer/orch leader correct? There are multiple arrangers listed, but I think it's clear now who you're referring to...

woa. cool beans! pity I don't have my disks with me. I want to listen closer to this.

[EKE BBB]

First of all, thanks to Jim for bringing this music to us: varied, wide-opened music. I received the 2CD package yesterday (thanks, Tom) and I´ve only listened to disc 1 twice (repeating a few tracks)... it sounds great!!!

I´ll try to bring some thoughts/guesses about Disc 1 without reading the previous posts:

1.- It´s a Monk tune I should recognize... or at least is a very monk-ish tune. First I thought it was "Ask me now" and then "Ruby my dear" but after checking previous versions... I think it´s not one of these two.

I like the piano introduction -in fact, I thought this was a piano solo and then, after a few minutes.... the group comes and it sounds really good-. The tenor sax sounds familiar to me, but I can´t give any name. That tone (sharp, penetrating)... maybe some Texan tenor??? No idea about the trumpet player!!!

4,5/5

2.- No idea. Terrible fuzzing on that vinyl. But the music is good (really almost good )

3/5

3.- Wonderful track. The rhythm section really cooks!!! Looks like a trumpeter date (no idea who this trumpeter may be… Woody Shaw??? Freddie Hubbard??? I don´t know)

4/5

4.- Big band stuff. Ought to be something from the 70´s???. Shocking electric guitar.

3/5

5.- The Godfather doin´ ballads. Here is the link to my guess:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Aeghe4j575waw

(track 11 of that linked CD)

4/5

6.- Wonderful vocals with string arrangements (Nelson Riddle???). Rosemary Clooney is my guess. The track is “How will I remember you?” (Gross/Sigman). Could it be this one???:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Ao1rj284u05na

(track 122 of that linked box-set)

4/5

7.- I like the duet alto sax/piano. Steve Lacy??? (I really don´t think so). Another monk-ish tune. Yeah, it´s “Little Rootie Tootie” for sure!

3,5/5

8.- I´m a dummy regarding organ dates!!! But this sounds good. I like the sound of that tenor (I really dig him!!!) over the groovy sounds of the organ. To throw a couple of names: Sonny Rollins –more for the tone than for the phrasing- (did he ever recorded with organ???) or Charlie Rouse. Great theme!!!

4,5/5

9.- What on hell is this? No idea of the drummer not even of the singer!!!

2/5

10.- I think it´s a drummer of the older style (but WTF do I know about drummers? ). I´ve always been bored about drum solos, but this sounds OK to me. Baby Dodds? Zutty Singleton?

3/5

11.- I should say something about this track, because this is a kind of very oooooold stuff that I do like (call me old-fashioned if you want). This songs comes from late 10´s or early 20´s.

The singer? I have this guy somewhere on my shelves but can´t throw in a name.

3,5/5

12.- Give “FREE”-dom to the people. This is “too free” for me. Who´s that guy screaming on trumpet? And that one crying “Yeah, yeah!!!!”???

No idea. AEC??? Or anybody from the AACM???

2,5/5

13.- One of the most beautiful tracks on this disc. Big band sound (late 40´s???) somewhere between swing and bop (nearer swing, I guess). Who´s that tenor? Zoot Sims??? And I should know who´s that clarinetist… I know I should!!! (anyway I won´t bring an obvious name like Woody Herman)

Superb music. Five thumbs up for this one!!!

5/5

14.- This is extracted directly from the Lester Young cavern (but it´s not Lester and if it´s Lester, it´s veeeery late Lester, because the phrasing is less fluid). Very Prezidential sax! My first choice would be Stan Getz (did he ever recorded with a guitar in the early 50´s? –I´ll check my shelves- ).

Beautiful, very beautiful… but IF YOU CAN HEAR SOME LESTER YOUNG SOUNDS… IT´S ALWAYS BEAUTIFUL, SO BEAUTIFUL… Damn it, I´ll have to take a Lester Young ride one of these days!!! I owe it to him!!!

BTW, the song is “Almost like being in love”, I guess…

5/5

15.- Yeah, a vibe date! This sounds (to these ears… don´t believe these ears ) previous to Milt Jackson, so the obvious choices would be Lionel Hampton or Red Norvo, but I can´t give a name.

Wonderful music!!!

4/5

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

Thanks again to Jim Sangrey for bringing us this music, eclectic music.

My first BFT: I´m enjoyin´ it. You really have to concentrate on the music to say something about it!

I will listen to disc 2 and post my impressions, and then again back to disc 1 & 2 after reading the other members´ posts.

Edited December 11, 2003 by EKE BBB

[JSngry]

On that really old track with the male vocalist, my first instinct at the very beginning was to wonder whether I was about to hear Andy Kaufman singing the theme to "Mighty Mouse".

That would have been a somewhat appropriate comment for Disc One, Track Two. And that's as much of a hint as I'm giving about any of this.

And that's enough for me to guess that it's a soundtrack to a cartoon.

No.

But straighten your swing...

[Man with the Golden Arm]

the soundtracky blues D1-T4 is still bugging me and I'm wondering if that wacky geetar solo might be...

and from another comp I have I talked myself into the album being "TGWWoQJ"?

but I know you have said you admonish guessers so go on.

[relyles]

From other people's comments about the title, I am wondering whether this is Disc 1, track 8?

D1T8?

[Harold_Z]

ARM - I think the one you're talking about is chronologically to early.

[Jim R]

Hmm... seeing that John (couw) quoted my last post reminds me of my question. Jim, was I out of line to ask that? Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit (and/or assuming too much), but since that particular track seemed to have been nailed, I thought I could ask you a "yes" or "no" type question without helping anybody who didn't wish to view the link...

[Man with the Golden Arm]

harold, i think you are correct ( the 50s ? of course not) and that linker posted does not sound like the player on disc. but do you agree that it may be THAT band were talking about. i went back to AMG and don't see much about those sides from the period of this sound. i know that's cheating but i'm antsy. the more i listen to that cut the more i gotta have it.

[Jim R]

I was watching "Straight, No Chaser" last night, fell asleep and woke up during "Ruby, My Dear" - disc 1, track 1 must be this tune, not "Ask Me Now" as I initially guessed.

'Fraid not... but it's understandable- you were groggy.

I still don't think it's a Monk tune.

[JSngry]

Hmm... seeing that John (couw) quoted my last post reminds me of my question.  Jim, was I out of line to ask that?

No. But I prefer to hand out hints and such at my own discretion, because I'm an egotistical bastard who enjoys the power trip.

I'll say this much, and nothing more - the CD that you cited is not to be heard on this test.

Edited December 11, 2003 by JSngry

[Jazzmoose]

I was watching "Straight, No Chaser" last night, fell asleep and woke up during "Ruby, My Dear" - disc 1, track 1 must be this tune, not "Ask Me Now" as I initially guessed.

'Fraid not... but it's understandable- you were groggy.

I still don't think it's a Monk tune.

Same here, even though that left hand is pure Monk...but then you realize having me agree with you on these things is not a good sign...

[Jazzmoose]

No.

But straighten your swing...

You realize you're killing me here...

[Man with the Golden Arm]

i'm gonna wager that that IS "ask me now". hits it for me right off the bat.

and edit...jim loves a supersize entendre...esp w/ pork.

Edited December 11, 2003 by Man with the Golden Arm

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Cut #12 on disc one sounds like two cuts? Not sure if they run into other on vinyl but the later's got Threadgill's sound before he ran away to the circus. Definitely something from the Nessa bag.

[Tom Storer]

Listening again, I hear just what it is that made me proclaim it "Ask Me Now". It's the bit you hear at around seconds 10-13; 30-34; 1:10-1:16; 1:57-2:00. Not much, it's true, but I heard it as a fingerprint of "Ask Me Now." I don't hear the same thing at all once the horns come in, but the part as of around 3:27 also evokes "Ask Me Now" for me. It happens to me often enough that musicians disguise tunes until I don't recognize them, so I guess I just wasn't bothered that the evidence was fragmentary! I was probably assuming too much, but still, the bits whose timing I gave sound right out of "Ask Me Now" to me.

At the risk of repeating myself... as the "Ask Me Now" controversy rages, here is how I explained my guess earlier in the thread. Maybe it isn't "Ask Me Now," but there's a bit of "Ask Me Now" in there!

[Dan Gould]

That's what I heard, too, Tom.

[Jim R]

Tom, I've attempted to analyze this already, and although there's a minor similarity in the way the note sequence descends and then rises, the notes are not quite the same. Even if they were, we wouldn't have "Ask Me Now" in complete form, but to my ears at least, we don't even have a real snippet.

I'll also disagree a bit with the comparisons to "Monk's left hand" on the intro to this. I don't quite hear it. It seems to me Monk's rhythm was typically even more irregular, more playful than this. I still hear more of an Ellington influence (at least in the intro), but then Ellington influenced Monk too, so...

At any rate, IMO, for the purposes of this discussion the Monk references are irrelevant to who wrote this particular piece, and who these players are (not that some of them weren't likely influenced by Monk). I think the intro is sort of a seperate entity, in terms of analyzing who and what this is. I hope I said that right...

I would almost (but not quite- I'm part Scottish) be willing to put some money down on Horace Silver being involved... (if only as a HEAVY influence on the solo style of this pianist)...

[Big Wheel]

From other people's comments about the title, I am wondering whether this is Disc 1, track 8?

D1T8?

No, that's not it. The track is too long, for one thing, and it sounds totally different (you can check out a sound sample at Amazon.com). I thought it might be Edwards too for a second; he has a similar sound and the same degree of fluency in his playing.

Pretty sure it's not Houston Person either.

[Jim R]

I would be surprised if I was to learn that James Brown had recorded with Louis Bellson's orchestra, and with Oliver Nelson arranging. Anybody (besides Jim, of course) know if that ever happened? As I said, I have never heard a great deal of JB myself. Bits and pieces here and there, but I've never owned an album. It seems plausible to me that this is JB, but frankly I'm going along with the strongly expressed opinions (statements, actually) here that's it is indeed JB. Obviously, that track was taken from an LP, but I wouldn't have the first clue which one. Anybody want to add a little more meat to the bone here?...

[Harold_Z]

ARM - It's not impossible that it's his band at a later date - but I have a feeling it's not. One reason - NO Eric Gale, who was an almost permanent fixture with that band from the mid 60s thru the early 70s, at least.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Harold_Z, someone did mention Mancini...that bit of Touch of Evil honky tonk to it and he would toss a fuzzy geetar in there.

[pryan]

Disc 1:

1- Very nice piano intro. It does sound like a Monk tune in the intro, the head is something different, however. Horace Silver? Some of the licks the pianist plays definitely remind me of Horace. Could be from the 70s or 80s, the horns have a more modern sound about them. The Brecker bros.? Like the tenor solo slightly more than the trumpet. Interesting tune.

2- Not sure what that one was all about. Good groovy vamp, though. Almost good.

3- Really liked this selection. The rhythm section really locks in and creates a dance-like bounce that the soloists seem to take to. Solos are truly enhanced (but also excellent in their own right) by the superb bass and drums combo.

4- Could have easily been a monotonous tune with that same bass figure throughout. The changing background passages/ensemble shouts and the high-flying trumpeter helped to sustain the excitement.

5- Very soulful singing; the only stuff I've heard like this is Etta Jones sitting in with Stitt and Jug. I dig it.

6- The string arrangement was very nicley done, sparse yet there when needed. Don't recognize the vocalist but the relatively straightforward reading was highlighted by her clear tone and phrasing.

7- Monk tune, nice interaction between the sax and piano.

8- Changes sound familiar, the musicians do not. Very intrigued to find out who the tenor player is, he incoporates a lot of different influences in his way of playing.

9- Fun stuff. There's actually a shape to the vocals, they tell a story, not just random words as I thought after the first listen.

10- Baby Dodds? Liked it, nice shifting groove.

11- Wartime song. Judging by the sound, this one's really old.

12- I'm going to guess the AEC, their impressions of what war is like. A very "visual"-like piece, especially the massive cymbal explosions near the 5:00-5:30 mark.

13- Woody Herman's band, even though I'm ashamed to say I have none of his stuff. An early Getz on the tenor solo, very nice. Not sure on the second soloist but he cooks too. Woody himself as the third soloist. I dig this one a lot.

14- "Almost Like Being In Love" Disciple of Prez. Quinichette? Getz perhaps, but earlier on in his career. Even could be Richie Kamuca. Hard to say.

15- Bass player seems kind of static to me, his lines don't have that propelling aspect that this tune needs. The congas don't add much, other than clutter. Excellent vibes solo and good exchanges with the piano. Should know the name of this tune.