BLINDFOLD TEST #4 - DISCUSSION

[John B]

5. I wouldn't have guessed JB. Actually, I thought it was a woman. I guess I need a new stereo.

I thought this was a woman at first, too.

Also thanks for helping with the distribution of this disc. I think my copy came from you, based on my quick glance at the package before I tore it open.

[Jim R]

12. Harry Allen's tribute to the Art Ensemble of Chicago.

[Jim R]

The more I listen to Disc 1, track 4, the more I imagine plaid jackets and mutton chops. This is definitely not my area of expertise, but didn't some of the older bandleaders like Woody and Harry James attempt to get funkified back in the early 70's?

Regarding track 1, I can't figure out why so many people said "Ask Me Now".

I'm realizing that I never have heard a whole lot of James Brown. I wouldn't have guessed him, for sure (same with the track that's being identified as Marvin Gaye... hmm...).

More listening to do...

[AfricaBrass]

I believe that Marvin Gaye track (disc 2 track 3) is from his album HERE, MY DEAR which was an album he recorded as a divorce settlement with his wife. She was to get all the money from his next album, so Gaye went ahead and made his next album the story of their relationship.

Needless to say, she wasn't very happy.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

where's shrugs? he'd of aced this thing and threw the curve way outta wack!

...and my guess for track 12 on disc one: "wild chimpanzees of the ruwenzori" and is that the dianne fossey mastering? the guys at the studio asked if i had a bunch of chickens in my room.

[connoisseur series500]

Haven't looked at anyone else's comments yet (as if that would do any good.)

Here are my comments...

Disc 1

1. Bandleader must be the pianist. Good musicians; good track.

2. Doesn't appeal to me.

3. Lots of brass; good solos.

4. Lots of horns; don't care for this one. Is that Pepper Adams on bari?

5. Bluesy singer. I don't like this one at all.

6. Sounds like Hollywood music! So-so stuff.

7. Interesting piano playing.

8. My type of music!! How did that guy with the bass slip into this organ group? The song is familiar, but I'm terrible with song names. I rate this "A" all the way.

9. What language is he singing in?

10. Lots of hand slapping & spoon clacking going on. My kid gave this one a thumbs up!

11. Before my time.

12. Aliens trying out musical instruments from Earth with the TV on in the background and an alien blowing a car horn.

13. Sounds like music of the spheres compared to the previous track. The aliens figured out how to use those instruments.

14. Sounds like Lester Young? Or maybe Stan Getz.

15. Great vibes/piano collaboration.

Disc 2

1. Don't care for this at all; though I kinda like the electric piano.

2. Henry Threadgill would be my guess. The rhythm is monotonous.

3. Not my thing. Had to abort this one.

4. Dreamy stuff. It's okay.

5. I'll guess Bix. Certainly Bix-era.

6. Not bad.

7. Okay

8. Not bad at all, though I don't listen to stuff prior to 1865!

9. In the style of Sonny Rollins. Could it be him?

10. Kick ass tune! I wanna know who this man is. I would buy the cd if it's available.

11. Sounds like Sonny Rollins again, though I don't think it's him. He liked those Calypso jazz sounds.

Overall: weird stuff! Some of it fits my tastes; some not. Great mix overall and I appreciate the opportunity to expand my horizons. Can't wait to learn about these musicians.

Thanks!

[Nate Dorward]

Dinnertime so I'll interrupt my listening to disc 2. This is as far as I got:

disc 2

1: “Nature Boy” (barely!), but I’ve no idea as to the players. Kind of like the plugged-in sax sound. Worth hearing once or twice, anyway.

2: My first hunch was that this was off Ellery Eskelin’s Figure of Speech, which I think has this instrumentation. This didn’t bowl me over – a little too static for me – but it’s a really good tenor solo, slippery harmonic moves and an interesting, non-mainstream tone, which again suggests Ellery. When the voices kicked in I wasn’t so sure, though. If not, possibly someone like Kahil el-Zabar.

3: Well, pretty obviously Marvin Gaye. I like the amorphous quality of the song, with voices & instruments dipping in & out of the arrangement according to no obvious pattern, & with the shape and direction of the melody impossible to predict. I like songs with no “hook”. The content of the lyrics makes me sure this is from Here My Dear, his notorious album about his ugly split from his wife.

4: Steve Swallow, and the piano is so minimal it’s surely Carla Bley. The piece is so static that the backdrop could almost be a prerecorded loop. Like a lot of Carla & Steve’s work I find the intelligence is so impenetrably wrapped in their habitual coziness that while I find it likeable it’s hard to feel very strongly about it.

5: crackle of vinyl & the fierce tempo made me initially fear it was playing too fast! Anyway, nice traditional jazz, probably players I should be able to identify but I can’t as I’m not at at all knowledgable in this area. The clarinet solo is very odd, which made me wonder if it weren’t Pee Wee Russell. Liked this track, anyway.

6: oh, “Lennie’s Pennies”. This will surely be Supersax, won’t it? Was it Clare Fischer who did this arrangement? Have heard OF it but never heard it. Pity about the crap sound on the piano (Fischer or Lou Levy?), which actually manages to sound not unlike Tristano’s sped-up piano exploits in timbre. Probably Gary Foster on alto. A slightly odd solo. Unmistakably Marsh on the tenor solo, with that weird sound that make it sound like he’s half-swallowing the notes sometimes, & the strange rhythmic feel. & that wild yelp in the top register. The ending big-band bit must be an arrangement of a previously improvised solo.

7: more big band sound, obviously Braxton, & sure enough it sounds like he’s written something on Lennie’s minor-key “Pennies from Heaven” changes. A moment in there sounds like a George Russell chart! Probably an Arista date from the 1970s. I can’t say I liked this all that much but it provides some food for thought about the links between Braxton’s big-band scoring & George Russell. The funny thing is that all the saxes sound to me like Braxton, even though obviously it’s only the alto solo that’s Mr B himself.

[Jazzmoose]

Okay, I don't want to miss the whole discussion, so I've decided to post my comments in several blocks. If I wait until I'm ready to cover the whole disc, who knows when I'll do it? Anyway, I don't know who any of these people are, so any artist guesses are just that. This is more my reaction to the stuff than anything else.

1. Mark's musical pet peeve number one: Pianists who, when they hear "give me a pickup" respond with an eighteen wheeler, if you'll pardon the poor pun. Then he gets to solo again in the tune? Anyway, I like the sax, and what I take to be a flugelhorn(?) solos. The piano solo was interesting after I got past my "what? more piano?" reaction. The left hand is pure Monk, but the right hand is nothing like Monk, at least to my ears. Weird... Sure wish I could remember the name of this damned song!

2. I have not the slightest clue what this is, or even what decade it's from. I would guess no later than the forties, but possibly as early as the twenties. Beats me! Doesn't do much for me.

3. This reminds me of Don Ellis, but the time signature is too easy. Nice stuff, but wouldn't make my short list of stuff to explore.

4. If Mingus isn't in the room, he ought to be. This music is a much better argument for accepting Jesus than anything I've read or heard from the Christians here or that I know. I'll definitely be making a note of who this is and where it comes from. Uh...but that guitar just shouldn't be there. Not sure I like that at all.

5. Whew! Is it warm in here, or is it just me? Good stuff!

6. This, on the other hand, kind of puts me to sleep. The singing is too straight, and the music is too stringy. I'm sure my wife would love it, but I'll pass...

7. Love it! Is this Mingus? It reminds me of some of the free stuff I've heard by him, but unfortunately haven't heard in years (note to self: gotta get more Mingus!), things like Eclipse, but I'm going by years-ago memories here.

8. Well, it was nice, but didn't really stand out for me.

9. Okay, I'm getting visions of Taj Mahal and no front teef here...my foot likes it, but I'm not sure.

10. Mighty fine stuff! What is this? Sounds like a tap dancing drummer doin' his thing...cool!

11. Interesting. Sounds like something the Original Dixieland Jazz Band would have done, with all the sound effects, and fits into the WWI theme. Don't know if I'd ever want to hear it again, but you never know...

12. I'm guessing AEC, who I'm completely unfamiliar with, only because if that ain't Roscoe Mitchell, he should sue. I like it; another one for my wish list. This one is absolutely subversive!!

13. Another "cool, but doesn't stand out". You know, the kind of thing that I'd pick up if the boss tripled my salary, but as things stand, doesn't make my "want list". It's good, just doesn't tickle my fancy. But it might at another time, you know?

Okay; that's enough for now...more later!

[RDK]

I apologize in advance to Jim for not giving his discs the full attention they require, but I've just got too many things on my plate this week. I've listened to both discs a couple of times now, but haven't the time to really try to figure out who's who and what's what. And now I'm too eager to learn the wonderful truths!

I can honestly say that I like everything I hear, even those cuts that may not be strictly "jazz." Nothing is so far out as to make my ears bleed (actually, nothing on disc 1 even comes close to that), and I'm really digging the rhythms on even the "non-jazz" cuts. I'll be coming back to these discs over and over again.

So let me throw out some quick comments, at least for disc 1...

1. I know this song - Monk, I think - but I'm too dulled at the moment to be certain of the title. But I don't think that's Monk on the piano - sounds too lyrical to me. Taken from an LP, so maybe it's not on CD?

2. No clue, but I dig that rhythm!

3. No clue

4. I really like this, but so many things went through my head upon hearing it that I'm not sure who this is. The sax is almost too aggressive for a "jazz" player. It sounds more like a honker and shouter-type of player. My first thought was Big Jay McNeely, but it's obviously not that vintage of a recording - the electric guitar gives that away. The instrumentation sounds like something Gil Evans did with his late period band - love how that guitar shakes things up! - and I know that Jim digs Evans.

5. "That's My Desire." I love this period and style of music, but I'm not sure of the singer. I wouldn't be surprised one bit to learn that I have something of him at home.

6. When is a jazz singer not a jazz singer? (Or vice-versa?) "I Remember You." Obviously a 50's recording. I cheated a bit on this one, but I suspect it's Doris Day. Those opening vocals give me chills...

7. "Little Rootie Tootie?" At least it's a Monk tune. Not sure who. Maybe a Konitz duet with piano?

8. I know this song as well, but can't come up with the title. Sax sure sounds like Rollins to me, but did he ever play with an organist? (Maybe I'm just thinking of Sonny's version) I'm curious...

9. No idea, but again I dig the rhythm. This is earthy stuff - primal blues.

10. Ah, this I bet was controversial! All the ol' BN fans will probably think it's Blakey on one of his "solo" drum/percussion tracks, but I don't think so. But it is the kind of stuff that inspired him to do those.

11. Makes me smile. No idea, but it's old...

12. Okay, this is the furthest "out" I've heard so far, but it's not too bad. Not the kind of thing I'd listen to often (at least when the wife's around), but I dig it's energy and fiery passion. Is this Ayler or Shepp?

13. Pleasant ol' swing that contrasts nicely to the previous cut - my how far jazz has progressed over the years! I'm beginning to see what Jim was going after. Again, I'm too dulled to guess players or even vintage, but the sax sounds like Ben Webster maybe?

14. "Almost Like Being in Love." Getz? Almost sounds like a bari on my office speakers, so I'm not positive, but it sure sounds like Getz to me.

15. Probably Hamp on vibes, but I'm not sure of the pianist.

That's all for now. I'll get to disc 2 later on, but I do want to mention that I know very well what track 2 on disc 2 is. In fact, it was on my list to be used on my upcoming BFT.

(edited because I forgot track 15!)

Edited December 10, 2003 by RDK

[Harold_Z]

WOW!

This reminds me of back in the day when I was working music full time (no day slave to hassle me) and I'd be hangin' with the cats and somebody'd say "YOU GOTTA HEAR THIS!!" and put something on.

Jim, your batting ONE THOUSAND! I dug EVERYTHING on here. As a matter of fact I'M GETTIN'HIGH LISTENING!

I went thru both discs once so I may be back later on in this thread with more to say. These are my first impressions.

Disc One:

1 - The out of tempo piano intro manages to be Monkish and Bixish at the same time (HEY! That's my take.)

The tenor sounds great!

2 - Very exotic! Don't know who or what but I dig it!. I guess it's ALMOST GOOD!

3 - Don't know who. Thoroughly enjoyable up blues.

4 - BLUES GROOVE - Chart reminds me of Q. Trumpet of Clark Terry (but not him).

5 - JB. Gotta get this. I mean I dug JB's things like "Prisoner Of Love" and this is right there with it. The guy really COULD sing his F*****' ASS off.

6 - Nice. Gloria Lynne?

7 - Wild guess. Steve Lacy? I haven't heard that much by him -but maybe?

8 - SECRET LOVE by ...who? Don Patterson? I dig the Fender - the guy is swingin' and he's old school in so much as it sounds like flatwounds on a Fender. The tenor reminds me of Lockjaw but I'm not sure.

9 - CT.

10 - Know it - Love it.

11 - Know it - Love it.

12 - Fits right in with tr 11. Don't know who - I dig it.

13 - CONFIRMATION like changes. Lestorian tenor - Zoot? Really guessing but could this be Woody's band?

14 - ALMOST LIKE FALLING IN LOVE. Getz? 50s?

15 - FINE AND DANDY - Hamp and a STRONG pianist!

DISC TWO:

1 - Outside then Inside (just to show you they can do it). Groovin' when the piano comes in and they (intentionally) speed up.

2 - Bone and alto in front. Don't know who. AGAIN - I like it.

3 - Know it - Love it.

4 - Bass player is beautiful. I'm assuming he's overdubbed. I'd like to get this. Really I have no idea who it is but I LOVE IT - the drummer's pocket is laid back JUST ENOUGH!

5 - AT THE JAZZ BAND BALL. Love it. I know the tune - it's a "dixieland warhorse" and I know it's Pee Wee, Bud and I think Buck and Marshall Brown (it's a valve bone). That line up would probably make it George Wein related. ...So my (educated) guess is it's some kind of Newport All Stars line up.

6 - Monkish head (but not Monk)

7 - Bebop head, but "out".

8 - Basie w. Lester. Don't know what.

9 - No idea who. Dug it.

10 - PERCY MAYFIELD???? IS THIS THE NEW RHINO ONE? Gotta get it.

11 - No Idea. It held my interest all the way through. Tenor Player dug his Jr Walker records.

So that's it. Those are my first impressions. I really want to say again..NO DUDS HERE. This is all of high interest to me.

[Nate Dorward]

The rest.

8: My first thought was Basie. Not sure if it’s Lester Young on the sax; lots of Lester licks & the sound too, but a few things that surprised me.

9: Ornette-influenced reading of a Charlie Parker tune. Sonny Rollins’ free period? Sounds great, anyway. Live sound could be a little better but hard to top the music – all three musicians in excellent form. Classic 1960s-free bass-solo in there is particularly great to hear.

10: The bizarre voicings & timbres made me think it was late Zappa, but the voice isn’t that of any Zappa vocalist I know of and the guitar and lyrics certainly aren’t Zappa’s. There’s the distinctive possibility therefore that the ridiculous backdrop isn’t actually parodic........ Anyway, worth hearing though not all that interesting.

11: Threadgill, obviously: the instrumentation and some of the wrong-turnings in the chord changes could be no-one else’s. Though it’s a lot more upbeat than the Threadgill I have, which is the Columbia stuff. Sounds like he’s trying to sound kinda of like African music – Threadgill does Sunny Ade. Is this from the Pi discs or the Black Saints?

[Peter Johnson]

1. Mark's musical pet peeve number one: Pianists who, when they hear "give me a pickup" respond with an eighteen wheeler, if you'll pardon the poor pun. Then he gets to solo again in the tune? Anyway, I like the sax, and what I take to be a flugelhorn(?) solos.

THANK YOU Mark!

I was beginning to think I was the only one who heard fluegelhorn in that track. At least we can go down in flames together!

[Big Wheel]

Here we go. I may add comments later, but here’s what I’ve got so far. I owe a debt to my alto-playing roommate for helping a bit when I was unsure of a player’s sound. The really interesting thing about this BT for me was that it reminded me how little I've actually heard. I've tried to focus on breadth more than depth for my collection, but this test proved to me that I don't have enough of either.

Disc 1

1. Man, I heard the intro and this is just so interesting! I hear Horace, but it’s a little too eclectic to be the Horace I’m familiar with—the harmonies aren’t really Silverish. But he does have that Monk thing going that Horace has, but with flashes of McCoy in there too in the way he voices each note! Hal Galper? That gait sounds familiar, but the pianist doesn’t seem technically fluent enough to be Galper. The trumpet reminds me for some reason of acoustic Tim Hagans, lots of Freddie in the tone but Woody Shaw in some of the lines…man, here comes the piano solo and it does sound like Horace, but the left-hand voicings just aren’t quite there for me. The drums aren’t really swinging as hard as they could, I think…is this a late-70s or early-80s production, maybe? The cymbals aren’t ringing like I think they should. Maybe Don Pullen?? I’m pretty unfamiliar with his music. My roommate’s listening with me and his guess is that it’s Bob Berg on tenor. Using that info, I’m gonna guess it’s this..

2. No clue. Professor Longhair? I haven’t checked out any of his stuff. I feel like there’s that New Orleans thing in this groove…After seeing Jim’s Andy Kaufman comment I can’t help but wonder if this is actually an early SNL gag of some kind with Paul Shaffer on piano…

3. Interesting with those Ellingtonian sax backgrounds. Someone’s trying to sound like Booker Ervin but on alto. Also some Cannonball in that sound, esp. on the entrance. Very Mingus-inspired throughout. I like this kind of motivic piano playing. Thought it was Horace Parlan at first but pretty sure it isn’t—too much chops--although I haven’t heard much post-60s Horace. A live tape of a Thad Jones group? No, that can’t be it; the writing isn’t Thad’s. I think this just might be Thad though. My roommate’s guess is that Richard Williams is on trumpet. I'm leaning toward Blue Mitchell, but am not sure at all. Williams would be a more logical choice, given his link with Thad. What about Tolliver? I dig the break too.

4. Man, what planet did that guitar sound come from? So incongruous for this bag. Whoa, that clarinet entrance sounds a little too much like Jimmy Hamilton to me for comfort, with all those little ornaments he’s doing. Normally I would think that’s crazy of me to think so, but this is Jim’s test and I’m prepared for anything wacky. No, not Hamilton. More like Russell Procope. That trombone player is playing licks that I’ve heard Steve Turre play, but I’m sure Turre got those from someone else. It's hard for me to tell who it is since he/she's using the plunger mute. Maybe this one's the Thad chart and someone's (Jerry Dodgion?) trying to copy the Procope thing. The electric bass puts it within the realm of the possible. But I don't think that's Pepper. If I had to guess it's not someone whose main axe is bari. Not at all sure of who's on trumpet here. The ending definitely sounds Thaddish, though.

5. Yeah. James Brown. He really did have such great control over his voice. I'm surprised hear a little bit of Michael Jackson’s phrasing/feel in there, but Jackson’s sound (even at his peak) ended up a caricature of this sound. No idea on the tenor soloist but he sounds a little Stittish. Not sure what year this is, but I’ll guess sometime in the mid-1980s. The guitar player hints at being a Benson devotee, but maybe he grew out of Wes like Benson did.

6. Damn, I think I know who this singer is and I can’t put my finger on it. Nice arrangement though, given Jim's affinity for him I'm guessing that this is Nelson Riddle.

7. Got the “Little Rootie Tootie” quote. The alto has that avant kind of sound, always ready to boil over, but it hasn’t quite made it to boiling yet. Hm, so now we’re playing LRT for real. Mal Waldron never really played like this to my knowledge, but he was my best guess. The sax player sounds very much like a clarinet during the quietest passages. I'm going to cheat a little and guess it's this version. I've never even heard of the guy.

8. Ok, I DEFINITELY have heard this tenor player. So why can’t I come up with his name? Heh, nice little 52nd St. Theme quote there. Very late Stitt, maybe? Only a couple of licks really suggest Stitt to me. Did Eric Kloss record much with organ? This organ player’s sound is more Smithian, but he’s using post-Larry Young voicings. No clue on the bass player. Ahhhh…he sounds like Dexter at the beginning. The organ player definitely has chops to spare—so why use an electric bass player? My roommate thought this was George Coleman. I doubt that Coleman would have ever made a record with organ and electric bass.

9. Not the foggiest clue. Like the groove though.

10. Good stuff. Based on the way he's playing the bass drum on all four beats I'll have to join the consensus and agree that it's a New Orleans cat.

11. It’s a little too early and a little too serious for Spike Jones, I think. Whoever it is, though, was definitely listening to “real” jazz at the time.

12. The beginning and end remind me a little of Sex Mob but I seriously doubt it’s them. The band’s got too many horns in it for the Mob, there’s no drummer, and I don’t quite hear Briggan Krauss’s tone. The bass player makes me think Reggie Workman but that’s a pretty wild guess. I’m going to throw out Oliver Lake’s name, but that's even wilder. Is this the new Jimmy Lyons box set, perhaps? I’m leaning away from saying it’s anyone in the AEC, although the vocal effects make it tempting to do so. This could definitely be the bass player’s record; he sounds like he’s the one holding this all together. Hmmm…that percussion (that gong!) makes more of a convincing case, but I still don’t think AEC when I hear this. Maybe James Merenda or some of the Fully Celebrated Orchestra guys?

13. Of course there’s a ton of Pres in there. Bud Shank? I think Giuffre on tenor. My roommate sez Getz, but I disagree. But there’s another clarinet player there too. I haven't listened to much Woody or DeFranco at all so I don't have a clue as to who it is. Here comes the alto player…he’s playing with the supreme confidence of Cannonball but the sound’s had the rough edges smoothed out. My roommate swears it's Cannon but I'm still a bit dubious. If it is Cannon, I'm guessing that it's this or similar live material. But that's a problematic guess, since I've never heard that leader swing so hard before.

14. Yeah, that’s Getz. Guitar sound is almost Burrell-ish but he’s picking way too hard for it to be Kenny. I wonder who’s doing that octave thing on piano. Now he’s going into the stride thing. That doesn’t always work, but it’s ok here. Piano’s recorded surprisingly hot.

15. “I Know that You Know.” A little hokey. The piano player’s capable but I don’t like the way he’s swinging here. Nice left hand, though. Definitely a pre-bebop guy...but enough chops to be Tatum? I don’t think so. The vibes player isn’t someone I’ve checked out much. Could be Hamp, could be Gibbs—the presence of Latin percussion hints away from Hamp and toward Gibbs. IMO, those bongos really hurt the music’s ability to swing the way it should. Kinda gimmicky to try that, makes me think this was late-40s or early 50s. They obviously rehearsed that ending a bit, so it’s not a straight-up jam session. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Aj4rz288t05na

Disc 2:

1. No clue who the tenor player is. Cool how they handle the accelerando there! I doubt this is Herbie on piano. This reminds me, actually, of Uri Caine’s Rhodes work. I don’t think this is Chick either. Did Stanley Cowell ever play Rhodes? The drummer is really on here. Bass solo—nice and tasteful. This is very good stuff; I especially like how the tenor player doesn’t try to do too much; instead he lets the rhythm section build intensity behind him.

2. Hm, this is a puzzle! Very “pure” sound on the tenor, very different than what you hear most doing today. I like how they tuned the drums to fit the melody, giving it a nice sense of forward motion even without a full rhythm section.

3. I haven’t listened nearly enough to this kind of thing. That opening monologue is sorta dated, but the song sure isn’t.

9. If this is Sonny Rollins, this is from sometime in the mid-1960s or later. His sound is just not the same as on the 1950s records. I haven’t heard any J.R. Monterose, but have a sneaking suspicion this might actually be him. Not sure if that applause on the end is dubbed in after the fact or if this is actually a live record…best guess: clickBut this seems too early to be right, if we’re to believe that date, and the track length is wrong. Maybe he recorded the tune again later?

Edited December 10, 2003 by Big Wheel

[couw]

I really didn't have time for two disks, but I simply made and took the time. And so, here are my comments on this Blindfold Test #4 (thankyoujim):

DISK ONE

Track 1. Sounds like Monk's Ask Me Now. The deviations are structural enough for it to be another tune leaning on it though. Woa! There's a whole band involved! They're playing more of the deviations and less of the Monk tune, so I'll stick with my second guess that I don't know what tune it is. The tenor has that certain "Texan" quality: it's very heavy, straight ahead, steam roller. But there are also many rasping sounds bulging forth from the lower part, stuff I associate with players like Harper and Maupin. I hear some Horace Silver mannerisms in the comping, so I guess this may be him. Aside from this comping, this whole thing breathes somewhat of a Strata East vibe. Listen for it in the way-cool trumpet solo; no idea who this is, but very nice flow of ideas. The piano solo is somewhat strange, there's a whole lot of great moments, but there's also silly single finger nursery rhymes. This one will have to grow on me. I have no doubt it will.

Track 2. This one had me smiling broadly! Yessss! I have some still-not-listened-to-enough jump style LPs with stuff in this vein. As for the performers, I haven't got a clue.

Track 3. As this track lacks a trombone player, I will not guess this is Mangelsdorff's 60s quintet, but the intro sure as hell sounds like it. Sorta like Cool Jazz goes Ornette in Mexico. The ensemble passage that follows puts it closer to a polished version of Mingus's stuff and it stays there, except for the small interlude around 4:30, which again sounds rather baroque. The piano has a 70s/80s sound to it (as I hear it). The tenor sounds like it was being caught off-guard, smearing phrases and tones; it catches up halfway and leaves a feeling of pity: I would like to hear this player giving it ALL. The ensemble parts are tight!

Track 4. Hollywood without the screen. Jimmy Carl Black on the drums (just kidding, but hey...). The screaming, talking trumpets are awesome, the hardly heard honky tonk piano comping fits like a glove; if you want to dish up some stereotypes that is. Funfunfun! This baritone saxophonist knows his shite; the guitar is exactly as I expected it to be: slick, surf, beach, Cucamonga! Clarinet has me baffled, this takes guts and he pulls it off like doing the dishes.

Track 5. Early James Brown. Dripdripdripdrip. There's a lot of Otis here. We'll sip a little glass of wine (baby) / I'll gaze into your eyes (and find) / let me feel the touch of your lips / pressing on mine (baby) / let me hear you whisper low. I guess you want us to call who's playing the tenor licks: I don't know.

Track 6. I used to not like string-dominated shite like this. Somehow I changed. It must be because I started listening to the voice. This is a great voice (if you want a guess: Clooney). The strings are still shite.

Track 7. Sounds like a HatArt/-Ology recording. It's a Monk tune, Rootie Tootie (Monk-A-Rena). FABULOUS rendering! All too abrupt ending, is this real? I am very curious.

Track 8. The theme statement was rather dull in spite of obvious attempts to the contrary by the tenor. It took a second listen to have my ears skip over that. What's with the bass player? Cool thing he kicks in for a solo, but otherwise I'd miss him like a toothache if he weren't there. The tenor is really good, very relaxed, sounds as if he knows what he's doing. (So why is he having a bass player in his band?) He doesn't really have that little bit extra which makes his sound recognisable (lack of exposition on my part?), he's pushing his notes a bit like Houston Person and has a bit of a Wayne Shorter bite, other than that I have no grass to grab for guesses.

Track 9. Winnetoo? Seriously, this sounds like a US native Indian doing his version of the blues. Me likee; doesn't really fit the flow of the disk thus far though.

Track 10. Baby Dodds? Sure is cool.

Track 11. Propaganda! Great in these times of war of course. Those were the days; when one could simply insert "non-musical" sounds at will and consumers and other people would still be happy.

Track 12. Hellyeah. Same text, different music. It works for me. This is fun! I read about this tune in a German book by Ekkehardt Jost (social history of jazz), so I know what it is, but have never before heard it. I'm digging this, is it available?

Track 13. I'm tempted to yell out Glenn Miller, but I can control myself; this sounds way more interesting. Alto might be Phil Woods. I'm not much at home with big bands. Aah, it's live! My stupid ass says the clarinet sounds like Pee Wee, better go with my ass if I wanna sit. Tenor has me stumped.

Track 14. Almost like being in love. The tenor has a lot of Lester but there's this nagging Hawk (or even Webster) feathery quality to his tone (although this is somehow lost with the track time advancing) and I cannot come up with a fitting name. Too feathery for Getz, I'd say. Guitarists are not my strength as this series has already proven. So I'm not going to venture a guess in that department. This guitarist swings like mad though. I really like how the pianist plays around the theme at the end of his solo, skipping notes and even phrases. In the trading how-many-I-can't-tell part, the tenor sounds like a white Lester-ite. Zoot Sims?

Track 15. Fine and Dandy (?). This sounds very compressed. Either it was Jim or someone else throwing a filter over an ancient recording or this is far more recent than the type of music lets us assume (is that an electric bass?). The vibe sounds like Hamp. Some of his big time fun type of vibe is there. I still doubt whether it's him though. This all sounds too sleek, like a pastiche. I'm at a loss.

Another disk's awaiting but so is my wife...

[couw]

Okay, back after an interlude. Please note that I have been drinking beer all the while, so this might be more fun than I am willing to admit...

DISK TWO

Track 1. Some electrically enhanced saxophone thing. Rather annoying at first, but folds out into a nice or at least interesting rendering of Nature Boy. At times this sounds really dated. The drummer (Williams?) burns his pants off. The piano-comping during the first statement: I could do without that. The pianist (Corea?) kicks off into unknown territories with the bass following closely. Though quite good, this still somehow strikes me as a bit of "look what we can do." The tenor (whothefuckisthis?) brings proportions back to enjoyable for me. Still... I am sorry to say, this idiom doesn't really click with me, which is rather strange considering I came to jazz by listening (a lot) to Zappa and his jazz renderings aren't really that far off of this type of stuff.

Track 2. Shortly sounded like Eddie Harris, isn't him after continued listen though. Couw likes this shite! After digging the shite out of the unisono stuff, I really like how the tenor and trumpet (or is it a horn?) trade solo space by playing together for a while, and then switching between soloing and comping like trading looks between lovers. This is really good stuff Jim! The tenor has some Shepp-like qualities I like a lot. Though I somehow doubt it is him. Maybe that's just because his tone has changed quite a bit and somehow this sounds like a modern recording, which doesn't fit with a "classic" Shepp sound. Couw wants to know!!!

Track 3. Crap Jim! This is toooooo greasy, slick, whatever for me after what you gave me with the preceding 16 tracks. I mean, come on, listen to the damn vocals. Is this guy serious? If he is, he should find someone to make him more attractive for the girls. Who (ooooo-ooooo) is this "baby" they are singing about? Someone you know? Wait a minute... is this Marvin Gaye? Anyhow, Couw's gonna take this one serious and will listen again (word!).

Listening again: The spoken intro somehow sounds really amateurish and it spoils what follows. Only around the 2 minute mark this thing starts to gains momentum for me. The lyrics are still not very good. This really isn't the best of its sort, rather bland like most pop songs. Pity ?cause the voice is good.

Track 4. The accordion like, reverb horn comping spoils this one for me. Sounds like yet another bad version of Biscaya. This is all too laid back, too slick, too poppish, too bedroom eyes, too (dare I say it?) Kenny G. No go for couw on this one. I always thought this type of music was made ONLY for the movies. Guess it isn't. Sorry.

Track 5. The sound is more modern than the tune would like us to assume it seems. I have been enjoying this kind of stuff more and more off late. Preferably it is of course played from noisy ten inch LPs (or 78rpm disks I would think).

Track 6. Smooth big band. Sounds like the tune to a telly sports show, so I guess it's the 80s (and would almost guess it's European, but that may just be because I hardly know American telly this close). The pianist is WILD. The alto is very nice, sounds like a guest star somehow. I like these almost chaotic unisono parts that sound as if there wasn't enough time to really practise.

Track 7. Yet another one of those telly big bands. A prime time show on Traffic Jams this time. Somehow there's way more than meets the ear here. Weird stuff, like couw likes it quite a bit. I'm gonna be lazy and see what help the others will offer on this one.

Track 8. Hellyeah! Is my very first reaction after hearing 5 seconds. Weird and wrong as it may seem, I am gonna go for Lester here. And yes, I know the guy sounds a lot like Hawk, but still. The piano sounds too boogie-woogie for Basie to my ears, but what do I know; not too much about this type of music anyhow. The ensemble sounds like Basie. Just to repeat: HELLYEAH!

Track 9. Confirmation? (or one of those Parker tunes) Sounds like Rollins to me. Rolls down like a melted ice-cream. The drummer and bassist smoke (certified!).

Track 10. This takes quite some time to warm up but starts emitting heat right after that. I haven't got a clue who this is, but it sure turns out nice.

Track 11. Another one that took some time to start happening. It initially sounded rather bland actually, like any steel-drum band; West Indies, Antilles, you know what I mean, but this one sounded slicker; that is, definitely not more real. There's better stuff out there (somewhere on the streets of Amsterdam). The alto made it interesting and worthwhile for me. Now, just listening to that sax, I'd go for Threadgill. That's because I don't know anyone else who's tone sounds remotely like this. I perversely hope this is a hole in my appreciation. And damn, who is this ?bonist?

Thank you, Jim, for opening my ears. I'm looking forward to reading the comments others made. From another thread I gathered that there were some problems with respect to the selections you made. I have found none. Although the border of what we or I or anyone may call jazz are certainly crossed on some of the tracks you selected, I still think those fitted nicely into your compilation and that's part of the deal it seems to me. I myself have spent a lot of time optimising the flow of my selections to make them into a real album of sorts. That is not an easy task. I would make other choices and do things differently than you if it came to that and have certainly done so (and would do it again if I hadn't promised myself to leave it as it is). Still, I can follow your ideas to the extent that I can appreciate what you did; I will be playing your disks, will be reading the comments of others, and will be trying to guess the (in my ears ever-changing) theme of the music you selected. There are some hard changes on both disks for me to get my ears around. That's cool, it keeps them looooong and flecxible.

I hope I can soon return the favours (you know why the "s" is there) you did me.

[White Lightning]

Got the BFT4 discs yesterday. Thanks Jim! Spinned the Disc 1 last night, and that's what I came up with:

1. Nice piano intro. Sound Siver-ish to me. It was a surprise when the horns joined in after 2:30+ mins. I thought it was a solo piano cut. I think I know the player, but I can't name them. The Tenor sounds Texan. The Fluglehorn(?) is VERY nice. Is that a Monk tune?

2. Didn't like this track! Sounds like a rough sketch of a cartoon sountrack.

3. Didn't do much for me. The sax player doesn't say much. The trumpet has great sound. Maybe a latino group? Some latin feel in that track, though not a latin style track.

4. Sounds like a 70s big-band. Din't do much to me as well. The only nice solo here is from the Bari Sax. Others didn't say much in there solos.

5. JB! Love this track!

6. Yikes! Bluh! Cheesy strings and an altogether a Zzzzzzzzzz feel.

7. A mont tune. Like this track a lot. Strange, beautifully-haunting. Is that a clarinet or a sax? Probably the latter but sounds like a clarinet in a few places. Is it Giuffre?

8. Secret Love. Nice tenor. don't know whao the organ player is - But WHAT"S WITH THAT AWEFUL FENDER BASS???!!!

9. Bluh

10. Dixi drums, no idea who this is.

11. Didn't do much for me. WW1 ditty

12. WTF?! Nice tenor. Zorn maybe? I love the Bass player!

13. I like that cut. 2 cool school sax players. is one of them Bud Shank?

14. Almost like being in love. Another Pres disciple. Or maybe it's Pres himself? If not - maybe an un-inspired Getz.

15. Love this track. Hamp & Fatha Hines? or is it Guarnieri? Great pianist anyway.

Now on to the second disc...

[JSngry]

15. “Fine And Dandy” (well, at least I know some songs!)

I know that you know lots of songs, dude, but this ain't that, although THIS is...

[couw]

15.  ?Fine And Dandy? (well, at least I know some songs!)

I know that you know lots of songs, dude, but this ain't that, although THIS is...

Hey, but I don't know many songs and I thought it was Fine and Dandy too! So, what's THAT then?

Edited December 10, 2003 by couw

[JSngry]

The hint has been given!

[couw]

I know, I know!

[JSngry]

And I know that you know.

[Harold_Z]

UH-HUH - and I know that you know that I know.

[Harold_Z]

It's Barbara George.

[Jim R]

OH... You(mans)... I get it now. I may have to go do an A/B just to make sure I really get it (and never make the same mistake again...)

[Harold_Z]

I made the same mistake in my initial post. B)