Rollins and Cherry

[soulpope]

The Internet wants you to know that the full unedited Village Gate recordings do exist.

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Edited May 5, 2014 by JSngry
Direct links to unofficial material is prohibited by board rules. Sorry.

[JSngry]

Sorry, had to nip the link three to be in compliance with house rules.

Discuss freely, but exchange links privately. Just the way it goes, and thanks in advance for what we hope will be your understanding.

[soulpope]

Sorry, had to nip the link three to be in compliance with house rules.

Discuss freely, but exchange links privately. Just the way it goes, and thanks in advance for what we hope will be your understanding.

my bad - my previous longer absence from this board as an active member made me seemingly forget about those guidelines............

Edited May 5, 2014 by soulpope

[JSngry]

No worries.

[Mark Stryker]

There are youtube links for some but not all of the unissued Village Gate material. Not sure where those fall within the board rules, so I'll refrain from linking but one performance that should have been on the original album was "Alexander's Ragtime Band."

[Leeway]

JSngry: "The arrangements are a little too clever for my tastes, and what that band did best was set up the tune and then stretch it whatever way they felt lie stretching it."

That's kind of what I was getting at when I talked about ornamentation rather than a real free improv. To me, SOnny just doesn't have his heart in it, but incredible chops could take him where he needed to go at any one moment.

[clifford_thornton]

Agreed about the Graz set - it's unlistenable.

I really like the set from Arnhem in '67 with Bennink and Ruud Jacobs. Some of my favorite 60s Rollins, for sure.

[colinmce]

Can't imagine how bad the Graz sounds if it's worse than Copenhagen. I've never put that one on a second time, though I guess I should.

[JSngry]

JSngry: "The arrangements are a little too clever for my tastes, and what that band did best was set up the tune and then stretch it whatever way they felt lie stretching it."

That's kind of what I was getting at when I talked about ornamentation rather than a real free improv. To me, SOnny just doesn't have his heart in it, but incredible chops could take him where he needed to go at any one moment.

My point was just that if you want to get a full take on Sonny's playing in the Rollins/Cherry band, Our Man In Jazz will, by itself, give you a very distorted perspective. The live material, rough-sounding as it, will have as much heart in it as you can want!

[Gheorghe]

I remember a DB interview with Don Cherry from the late 70´s maybe early 80´s where the interviewer at the end mentioned that Sonny Rollins is in town, playing.

Don Cherry jumped up and said "I guess I´m a wanted man" , that´s how the interview ended......

[JSngry]

That's funny!

[danasgoodstuff]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

[Steve Reynolds]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

Surprising he he didn't record with Dudu Pukwana, Mike Osbourne or Trevor Watts - at least not as far as I know

Three pretty significant saxophonists of the 70's and 80's

[paul secor]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

Surprising he he didn't record with Dudu Pukwana, Mike Osbourne or Trevor Watts - at least not as far as I know

Three pretty significant saxophonists of the 70's and 80's

Don Cherry did record with Dudu Pukwana on Johnny Dyani's Song for Biko album.

[Steve Reynolds]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

Surprising he he didn't record with Dudu Pukwana, Mike Osbourne or Trevor Watts - at least not as far as I know

Three pretty significant saxophonists of the 70's and 80's

Don Cherry did record with Dudu Pukwana on Johnny Dyani's Song for Biko album.

Thanks

Me needs to look for that CD. On steeplechase, I think....

[paul secor]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

Surprising he he didn't record with Dudu Pukwana, Mike Osbourne or Trevor Watts - at least not as far as I know

Three pretty significant saxophonists of the 70's and 80's

Don Cherry did record with Dudu Pukwana on Johnny Dyani's Song for Biko album.

Thanks

Me needs to look for that CD. On steeplechase, I think....

Yes. And, as Chuck (I believe) pointed out some time ago, the CD has a cut that the LP lacks.

[medjuck]

I've got a cd which according to the notes has 3 songs from Stockholm with Henry Grimes on bass and 3 from NY with Bob Cranshaw on bass. Haven't ;istend to this for a while but remember liking it.

[danasgoodstuff]

Don Cherry deserved some kinda MVP award, is there any significant sax player even spitting distance to the A-G he didn't record with? (Ornette, Sonny, 'Trane, Ayler, Gato, James Clay, Pharogh, etc.) It's like blue Mitchel and organ players...wish Lester Bowie had done more of that, not that there's anything wrong with his regular gig, but I likes me some variety too (spinning off course into near incoherence).

Surprising he he didn't record with Dudu Pukwana, Mike Osbourne or Trevor Watts - at least not as far as I know

Three pretty significant saxophonists of the 70's and 80's

Don Cherry did record with Dudu Pukwana on Johnny Dyani's Song for Biko album.

Thanks

Me needs to look for that CD. On steeplechase, I think....

Yes. And, as Chuck (I believe) pointed out some time ago, the CD has a cut that the LP lacks.

Yes, I failed to mention Dudu Pukwana but I do have it and it's quite nice, as is everything i've heard of Dyani

[sonnyhill]

The Internet wants you to know that the full unedited Village Gate recordings do exist. Our Man In Jazz did not have to be the record that RCA said ok, let's put it out like this, let's put it that way.

I am listening. Hopefully all of this material sees the light of day as a legitimate release. It would make an excellent Mosaic set.

[medjuck]

Am I the only person who likes Our Man in Jazz?

[medjuck]

(I posted this on the What Are You Listening To thread, then decided I should post it here. I felt that a dissenting view has a place in the discussion).

Inspired by the Rollins-Cherry thread elsewhere on the Board, decided to give this another listen. I found it more adventurous than most of Rollins work at the time, but it strikes me that Rollins was not very comfortable in the idiom. He always seems to be looking for spots to break into one of his beloved show tunes, and quite a bit of the time he is involved in ornamentation, not free playing. Cherry and Rollins are in the same room, but I'm not sure they are always on the same page. Not much synergy there, but then again, there is not much synergy either on the Coltrane-Cherry album. Rollins tenor always sounds great, but to me Sonny's unease suggests the groundwork for his later, more conventional work.

I

As an aside, when I was going to school in Buffalo in 1964, Sonny Rollins appeared at a local club with a group that included Grant Green. Unfortunately, I missed that gig and I've wondered since what the group sounded like.

I saw that group in Montreal. I remember not liking it that much. (It was 50 years ago so I don't remember many details.) Next time I heard him was with a pick up group in Toronto which included Ed Bickert and Arcjie Aleyne (sp?)-- or maybe it was Ed Thigpen-- and I was much more impressed.

[JSngry]

Am I the only person who likes Our Man in Jazz?

World gone wrong if you are...

World gone wrong anyway, but not THAT wrong, not yet.

[Head Man]

Am I the only person who likes Our Man in Jazz?

NO.........

[colinmce]

Not by a long shot.

[Clunky]

I've always liked it and never understood why it wasn't rated higher .