New Soul Station XRCD Blue Note - out now. Sounds great!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i wish i knew what SACD was like. until i can experiecne that, i guess well i justy got this new alan yoshida mastered soul station xrcd which is just like "redbook not mastered by idiots"- what do you guys think of this vursus the mcmaster 1988 job, or perhaps the rvg (but we know the answer to THAT....)

[captainwrong]

Not to defend the Hoffman site or anything, but it's not a more or less independent site where everyone can say (within reason) what they like; its main purpose is to promote Hoffman's interests in the music biz, and to protect his interests the moderators have set up an extensive and extremely strict book of rules.

Not to pick on you, but everytime I hear this mentioned, I have to ask why, if this is the case, does the site then solicit and accept donations from it's users? I used to moderate on a site that was connected to a fanzine, fan convention, book and retail store with an active user list similar to, and maybe even larger than, Hoffman's and not only did the guy running it pay for it out of pocket but we had fewer moderators and the only instances where posts were deleted dealt with piracy and only when threads became flame wars did we lock them. So I just don't buy that excuse because I know from personal expirence it doesn't have to be like it is.

Now I've gone off topic on this thread. Apologies.

[jazzbo]

i wish i knew what SACD was like. until i can experiecne that, i guess well i justy got this new alan yoshida mastered soul station xrcd which is just like "redbook not mastered by idiots"- what do you guys think of this vursus the mcmaster 1988 job, or perhaps the rvg (but we know the answer to THAT....)

I think this one sounds really good. I like the RVG too, I'm keeping both. Don't remember the McMaster, it's been gone from my shelves for years.

True Blue sounds great too in this XRCD edition. I'm not sure I'm buying many more of the announced titles. I wish that these audiophile issues could be of less quartet and quintet and trio etc. titles. I'd love to see titles like Joy Spring, The Prisoner, Trying to Get Home, Lift Every Voice. . . larger ensemble sessions would really sound nice in XRCD. Or SACDC (I haven't bought any of those yet. . . )

Edited February 11, 2010 by jazzbo

[DMP]

After years of the vilification of Ron McMaster, all of a sudden he's vindicated? I've made a mistake replacing the McMaster's with RVG's? And now I have to sign up for $60 a month (plus shipping) to get XRCD's? Although "Tomcat" is one of my favorites...

[jazzbo]

I'm not vindicating McMasters, that's for sure, i don't even like the sound of his 24 bit remasters much, they just sound so digital to me, thin and brittle.

It is interesting to hear the two Blue Notes I have on XRCD. Very well done. . . similar in some ways to the TOCJ versions so cherished by many here, but crisper and more "involving" for me at least.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i eventually will A/B/C the mcmaster/rvg/xrcd's of soul station, but off the bat: i DID hear hank sounded "warmer" i guess, i dont know how to conceptualize it my ears arent good like that. but maybe once i a/b them ill be able to appriciate the differences more. what i **REALLY** wanna do is A/B the xrcd to a SACD!!

one thing i definetly could tell, is the soul station xrcd, didnt sounds like a 1st pressing vinyl copy. i definetly was aware i was not listening to that

[ShowsOn]

I think it's hilarious what just happened over on the Steve Hoffman forums. Someone who does publishing for a living commented that he felt the artwork, both the cover scans as well as the typography, could have been done better. After two days of pretty interesting comments wondering if Audio Wave was trying for something different and then today *poof*... all gone. Scrubbed for your benefit.

Kevin

Yeah deleting that thread is just typical of the censorial policy of the forum. But it gets even stupider, I posted this link on the SH forum:

Which contains the following quote:

I asked Michael Cuscuna & Ron McMaster about this and they have no idea what Steve Hoffman was talking about with "The Sidewinder" master tape. According to Ron, the master that Steve "found" is the same one that he's used many times. In fact, when Ron used it a few weeks later to cut an LP, he said the writing on the box was plain as day that it had been used by him & RVG for the previous CD releases.

I posted that link in the the following thread concerning the mastering of the Lee Morgan - Sidewinder SACD, where Steve claimed that he found the master tape that hadn't been used since the original vinyl.

Well, here is the thread, it has been deleted:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3742233&postcount=1

[Dan Gould]

I don't think its remotely surprising that information directly contradicting a Hoffman claim would be sent straight down the memory hole.

[ShowsOn]

I don't think its remotely surprising that information directly contradicting a Hoffman claim would be sent straight down the memory hole.

Well that's just petty. There's just no need for such a personality cult, a bit of humility goes a long way...

[J.A.W.]

I don't think its remotely surprising that information directly contradicting a Hoffman claim would be sent straight down the memory hole.

Well that's just petty. There's just no need for such a personality cult, a bit of humility goes a long way...

I quoted Kevin's post in PM conversations about the Blue Note SACDs I had with a few other SH Forum members and some of them wouldn't believe me: "why would Steve lie about it, and why should I believe that quote?" One of them even said that he wouldn't believe me because I'm in the Netherlands whereas Hoffman resides in LA, with contacts in the music biz... Enough said

Edited February 16, 2010 by J.A.W.

[Dan Gould]

I don't think its remotely surprising that information directly contradicting a Hoffman claim would be sent straight down the memory hole.

Well that's just petty. There's just no need for such a personality cult, a bit of humility goes a long way...

Ah, but it is a personality cult, and humility is antithetical to that concept.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

cant blieve they didnt do a SIDEWINDER xrcd yet....or did they. i would be all over that.....wait dan gould so i dont understand, whats your verdict on these? i REALLY want to experience SACD but i donbt have the eqip so im trying to get into these to tide me over....

[Dan Gould]

If you must know, in my limited experience (3 XRCDs, two of them found used) XRCD is far and away the best sounding remasters I've ever heard. If I had the money I'd consider some of these and if I knew sessions like Blue Hour or Moods were on the production schedule, I'd do whatever it took to find the money.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I posted that link in the the following thread concerning the mastering of the Lee Morgan - Sidewinder SACD, where Steve claimed that he found the master tape that hadn't been used since the original vinyl.

Well, here is the thread, it has been deleted:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3742233&postcount=1

I don't know why you would expect anything different. Why do you think I posted what I did here instead of there? It's because if I had posted this, not only would they have deleted it, they likely would have banned me.

If you want to talk about it, do it here not there. If you keep bringing it up there, you'll just wind up being banned.

Kevin

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

kevin why was that thread a sensitive topic?!? didnt SH himself start that thread? i remember that thread vividly, how the master had some 80s 3m crappy leader tape attached to it so it didnt look like the master but then when it played thru it indeed was the master....why was that thread banned?!?!

dan gould that is interesting you like them like that. better than sacd?!?

[J.A.W.]

kevin why was that thread a sensitive topic?!? didnt SH himself start that thread? i remember that thread vividly, how the master had some 80s 3m crappy leader tape attached to it so it didnt look like the master but then when it played thru it indeed was the master....why was that thread banned?!?!

See post #57, where Kevin is quoted:

I asked Michael Cuscuna & Ron McMaster about this and they have no idea what Steve Hoffman was talking about with "The Sidewinder" master tape. According to Ron, the master that Steve "found" is the same one that he's used many times. In fact, when Ron used it a few weeks later to cut an LP, he said the writing on the box was plain as day that it had been used by him & RVG for the previous CD releases.

Edited February 20, 2010 by J.A.W.

[Dan Gould]

I can only judge an SACD by the redbook layer, and there ain't nothin' special about the redbook layers I've heard on SACDs.

[ShowsOn]

If you want to talk about it, do it here not there. If you keep bringing it up there, you'll just wind up being banned.

Kevin

Thanks for your advice, but I'm tough, I could handle being banned by a forum that censors posts for absurd reasons.

I can only judge an SACD by the redbook layer, and there ain't nothin' special about the redbook layers I've heard on SACDs.

It's the mastering that counts. If you get the Analog Products SACD of The Sidewinder, you'll probably like it a lot. It isn't exactly hard for the mastering to be better than the RVG CD.

[Dan Gould]

I've never been nearly that concerned about sound. I bought the first two XRCDs because they were $9 used, and the third one simply because it was a Japan-only release by Lionel Hampton with the Ray Brown Trio (I have everything Gene Harris recorded except for three LPs from the 70s). And I've only bought SACDs for the music - like another Ray Brown Trio recording, or a recent Chesky release. And I'm quite fine with my McMaster Sidewinder.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

kevin why was that thread a sensitive topic?!? didnt SH himself start that thread? i remember that thread vividly, how the master had some 80s 3m crappy leader tape attached to it so it didnt look like the master but then when it played thru it indeed was the master....why was that thread banned?!?!

See post #57, where Kevin is quoted:

I asked Michael Cuscuna & Ron McMaster about this and they have no idea what Steve Hoffman was talking about with "The Sidewinder" master tape. According to Ron, the master that Steve "found" is the same one that he's used many times. In fact, when Ron used it a few weeks later to cut an LP, he said the writing on the box was plain as day that it had been used by him & RVG for the previous CD releases.

weird....,so now the threads deleted?!? i dont think i understand?!?!?

[RDK]

kevin why was that thread a sensitive topic?!? didnt SH himself start that thread? i remember that thread vividly, how the master had some 80s 3m crappy leader tape attached to it so it didnt look like the master but then when it played thru it indeed was the master....why was that thread banned?!?!

See post #57, where Kevin is quoted:

I asked Michael Cuscuna & Ron McMaster about this and they have no idea what Steve Hoffman was talking about with "The Sidewinder" master tape. According to Ron, the master that Steve "found" is the same one that he's used many times. In fact, when Ron used it a few weeks later to cut an LP, he said the writing on the box was plain as day that it had been used by him & RVG for the previous CD releases.

weird....,so now the threads deleted?!? i dont think i understand?!?!?

What thread? I don't see any deleted threads over there. It must have never happened.

[J.A.W.]

kevin why was that thread a sensitive topic?!? didnt SH himself start that thread? i remember that thread vividly, how the master had some 80s 3m crappy leader tape attached to it so it didnt look like the master but then when it played thru it indeed was the master....why was that thread banned?!?!

See post #57, where Kevin is quoted:

I asked Michael Cuscuna & Ron McMaster about this and they have no idea what Steve Hoffman was talking about with "The Sidewinder" master tape. According to Ron, the master that Steve "found" is the same one that he's used many times. In fact, when Ron used it a few weeks later to cut an LP, he said the writing on the box was plain as day that it had been used by him & RVG for the previous CD releases.

weird....,so now the threads deleted?!? i dont think i understand?!?!?

What thread? I don't see any deleted threads over there. It must have never happened.

[Chuck Nessa]

I love this shit!

[ryecl]

First off all I like to introduce myself. I've been a long follower of this forum, and in my opinion it is the best of which topics it cover. As a sucker I am for reissues,and especially those from Blue Note, I subscibed for this whole XRCD collection. However I do know very little about sound quality and the differences between the recording techniques beeing used for the different reissues of these classics. I asked myself; do i really need these versions, which cost twice or three times as much as the versions that are already available? As I only owned a RVG-edition of Soul Station (not that it matter anyway, I think I would subscribe if I owned everyone) I thought that it would not do any damage anyway. If I will have any grandchildren, this is the best way to describe to them what kind of music I listened to

So today I received my copies (of course with some good tax money paid aswell, because of Norway's generosity ), and so far I have only managed to listended to Soul Station, which I think was great. My first thought was that this really is a quality product soundwise. The packaging of these issues are excellent aswell. After my subscription I had my regrets anyway. I could have got most of these versions a lot cheaper if I went for the RVG editions. My thought was that maybe this collection is only mounted on audiophiles which's only concern is on the sound quality, because so far I thought the RVG editions sounded good enough. My questions to you is that, do you think this collection is a bit unnecessary or not, and do you think it will continue after the 25 so far announced titles announced?

At last I will thank the creators and the contributors of this forum, as it seems to be the only serious place to adress your questions about jazz music.

I apologize if my english written language is not understandable.

[riverrat]

Hannibal, I can offer a few opinions, and that is what they are my opinions only.

I suppose one could argue that the new XRCD and SACD Hybrid Blue Note series aren't really "necessary", given that all titles announced so far are readily available in less expensive versions. But I'm very glad that the two companies responsible decided there is enough demand to support the new remasterings and reissues. Most of the RVGs sounded OK to me too, but I can also easily notice an improvement, even on my relatively modest system, when I hear a better mastering- until now generally the Japanese BN Works series, long out of print. I just about always prefer the BN Works versions, although it is true that they are usually slightly rolled off in the high end, with less overall detail than most RVGs.

I think you could also argue that there is really no reason why the RVG series could not have produced much better sounding reissues. The fact that most of them are not that good has been variously attributed to Rudy Van Gelder's potentially declining hearing, and/or to the industry trend to use boosted loudness and compression, apparently to make the CDs sound more punchy on crummy playback devices like ipods and personal stereos.

But in the hands of a different engineer, or with RVG given different instructions, it seems that we could have had reasonably priced, smooth sounding, detailed remasterings. Sadly that did not happen, so now we are left with having to pay $30 each for really nice sounding remasters. I'm personally not convinced that SACD hybrid or XRCD technology is necessary for good sound- in fact the great quality of the redbook layer on the SACDs is evidence to that effect.

The good news is that both the SACD hybrids and XRCDs seem to easily beat all other CD masterings for sound quality. To my ears, they combine the smoothness and analog-type sound of the BN Works versions, but with considerably more detail like the best RVGs had. In other words, the best of both worlds...

Edited February 25, 2010 by riverrat