Mingus Ah Um

[djcavanagh]

Can anyone tell me if the recent Japanese reissue of Mingus Ah Um (SICP20090) is the album as originally relased, i.e. with the edits, rather than the expanded version that is is circulation now with the edits restored. My understanding was that the original US cd issue was also the edited version - are there any other cds issues with the original version of the album?

Thanks

Denis

[JohnS]

I don't know but I do know that you need both the original and the expanded version.

[brownie]

Good advise

[Shrdlu]

Why would one need both?

One thing I do know: the original LP was very effective. I have not heard any other version.

[Teasing the Korean]

Why would one need both?

One thing I do know: the original LP was very effective. I have not heard any other version.

The expanded has tunes not on the original.

It also has longer edits of many of the tunes on the original.

The trouble is, while the extra material is well worth having, the complete album is not as effective or as cohesive as the original Mingus version.

So, if you're a Mingus freak like I am, you need both.

IMHO.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Teasing the Korean

[MartyJazz]

Why would one need both?

One thing I do know: the original LP was very effective. I have not heard any other version.

Although, I still own the original LP which I haven't listened to in years, I have no idea why one would need both the LP and the expanded CD. The expanded CD version is excellent to the point that I think the LP edited version was simply done not to eliminate mistakes or substandard solos, but so as to fit all the compositions onto a format which allowed for (roughly) 45 minutes of music. The expanded amount of music that a CD allows makes it the medium of choice when listening to the quality of music Mingus made for that session.

[J.A.W.]

One point in favour of the 2CD Legacy Edition is the sound, to my ears it's better than on earlier versions.

[djcavanagh]

Why would one need both?

One thing I do know: the original LP was very effective. I have not heard any other version.

The expanded has tunes not on the original.

It also has longer edits of many of the tunes on the original.

The trouble is, while the extra material is well worth having, the complete album is not as effective or as cohesive as the original Mingus version.

So, if you're a Mingus freak like I am, you need both.

IMHO.

This is the main reason why I'd like both - I'm intruiged. There seems to be a feeling in some quarters that the original version of the LP is superior.

But no-one seems to know the answer to the question...

[Hot Ptah]

It's a matter of taste. The original LP is one of my favorite albums of all time. When I heard the expanded album, I found it interesting, but thought that the energy of the original LP had been dissipated. The original LP is tight, exciting, to the point, without a wasted note. The expanded LP has exactly the same ensemble parts and solos, but more added all over the place. Just when you are used to the music going to a certain place, it does not go there. It doodles or fiddles around instead with a longer solo or another musician's solo, which is often not as powerful as what had been included in the original LP. So that is certainly interesting from a certain standpoint, but it is not as good an album, to my taste.

For a rock album example--I think that Duane Allman's solos on "One Way Out" on "Eat A Peach", and "Statesboro Blues" on "Live At Fillmore", are just the right length, tight and powerful. What if an expanded version came out, where he doodled around for several minutes to no great effect, at the end of the solos which are so familiar to us. And then what if the full band came in with passages which were new to us, but not that great, before the original recordings resumed. That would all be intriguing to a fan of the group, but not as good.

[DMP]

I was a little disappointed that the new 2CD set didn't contan the original LP's, which I think haven't been reissued in remastered versions. The "expanded" versions are all on the previous 3 CD set of Mingus' Columbia material (and, prior to that, on Mosaic), wich is a fine package. So guess I'll hang on to everything, too.

[jazzbo]

I no longer have the original lp version, and I can't say I really miss it. I'd probably buy a remastered version though if offered. I'm a silly record buyer like that.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were a release from Jazz Beat or Jazz Track, Atomic Records, etc.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I only have the '99 Legacy CD (no doubt got rid of the earlier version that I should have kept) and have "The Shoes of the Fisherman's ... Slippers" on LP so no need for the new issue w/ Dynasty.

So what CD release contains those original edited tracks as well - as djcav is asking? please.

[jeffcrom]

I never really wanted to get the unedited version, for the reason others have said - I've been listening to the original for over 30 years, and it has always seemed just perfect. But, inspired by this thread, I stopped on the way home from work and picked up the newest Legacy edition. My take - I'm glad I have both. The form and flow of the music is improved with the edited portions restored, but the intensity is somewhat lessened - for the most part, the sections that were cut aren't as hot as the rest of the music.

Whichever you listen to, it's a masterpiece - beautiful and incredible.

I can't find a date on my old CD - it's got the circular "Columbia Jazz Masterpieces" logo that I'm sure many of you remember.

[Teasing the Korean]

I can't find a date on my old CD - it's got the circular "Columbia Jazz Masterpieces" logo that I'm sure many of you remember.

That's early- to mid-1980s. Columbia probably released about 20 jazz CDs initially. This was surely one of them.

[brownie]

The original LP was the way I first heard this incredible music. It's still the way I have the music in mind.

The CD release of the original tapes was another revelation.

Not really sure I would admit it is better but then I would hate to be asked which one I prefer

I love both

[JohnS]

The original LP was the way I first heard this incredible music. It's still the way I have the music in mind.

The CD release of the original tapes was another revelation.

Not really sure I would admit it is better but then I would hate to be asked which one I prefer

I love both

My views exactly Brownie.

[king ubu]

I gave away the old CD once I got the 3CD set... too bad, but I didn't think of such tings back then.

I guess like Lon I'd buy a remastered version of the original album.

I have no interest whatsoever in the recent 2CD set though - what a silly thing that is! They'd better have included the few tracks from "Alternate Takes" and the original mix of the album, instead of pairing both albums under the title of one!

[sonnymax]

I prefer the unedited version of Mingus Ah Um, which first appeared in 1979. While it might not be the recording that some people first became familiar with, it does represent how the music was originally created and played. Contrary to what someone else has said, I have read that solos and passages were, in fact, edited to improve their quality and impact. Somehow, the idea of removing parts of a solo to make it tighter, cleaner, etc. seems "un-jazzy" to me, since improvisation is, by definition, "at the moment" or "on the spot", with no chance to change it except to do it again. Just think how different many of Coltrane's classic solos would have been if the same concept had been applied! And I'd hardly describe the restored material as "doodling" or "fiddling." Imo, this is one of the ten greatest jazz recordings of all time!

[king ubu]

I have a friend who calls Trane's looooong solos "flushing"

[Teasing the Korean]

While it might not be the recording that some people first became familiar with, it does represent how the music was originally created and played.

Sure, but it's not Mingus's conception of the record.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Teasing the Korean

[jazzbo]

Maybe. . . or Teo's?

[DMP]

The question for me about these "unedited" versions is: are they exactly what was recorded in the studio? My guess has always been that they are just longer than the original "edited" versions that were originally issued, with some restored bits and pieces, maybe ome rearrangement. In other words, just "alternate" versions, like something Gil Evans did with the CD issue of his RCA album "There Comes a Time," rather than complete restorations (like, for example, what was done with the Miles "Blackhawk" material).

[jazzbo]

Seem like what was recorded to me.

[CJ Shearn]

I've heard only the unedited version of this material, so I'm happy with the Legacy 2CD

[Guy Berger]

I've only heard the unedited version. I like it plenty.