Hip me to some (more) early jazz

[B. Goren.]

These 3 CDs are among my favorite Count Basie recording. I think 1937-1939 can still be considered as early jazz.

[Ted O'Reilly]

I think 1937-1939 can still be considered as early jazz.

Wow! Really? Early jazz?

[Neal Pomea]

Look for bands led by Clarence Williams and Richard M. Jones

http://www.redhotjazz.com/williams.html

(Love the tuba of Cyrus St. Clair)

http://www.redhotjazz.com/jones.html

[papsrus]

Look for bands led by Clarence Williams and Richard M. Jones

<a href="http://www.redhotjazz.com/williams.html" target="_blank">http://www.redhotjazz.com/williams.html</a>

(Love the tuba of Cyrus St. Clair)

<a href="http://www.redhotjazz.com/jones.html" target="_blank">http://www.redhotjazz.com/jones.html</a>

Yes, the Williams titles I've gathered up are really nice -- wonderful tunes.

Also, the Jazz Oracle label that Lon and others directed me to is fantastic. The sound on these is as clear as anything I've listened to from this era -- often much clearer.

I'm listening to a Jazz Oracle release of another Williams now -- clarinet player Douglas Williams, mostly in small trios and quartets, and dripping with the blues -- and it's beautifully clear.

[jazzbo]

[papsrus]

A little outside the focus of this thread, but I'm listening now to another newie -- Eddie Condon: Dixieland All-Stars, the Original Decca Sessions (39 - 46) ... (great, great album!) and in the liner notes Richard M. Sudhalter, in describing what a colorful character Condon was, says that Condon "dragged Fats Waller out of bed for the most important record date of his life."

He isn't any more specific than that. What date is he referring to?

[Harold_Z]

The date when Fats recorded Minor Drag and Harlem Fuss. IIRC it's a 1929 date. Condon gives a detailed account in his autobio "We called It Music."

[papsrus]

The date when Fats recorded Minor Drag and Harlem Fuss. IIRC it's a 1929 date. Condon gives a detailed account in his autobio "We called It Music."

Thanks Harold. Will look for those.

[king ubu]

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

The funny thing is, I don't know what I ordered, as from that site you don't get an order confirmation, but I guess latest by end of the week, there'll be a parcel waiting for me

Some more George Lewis will be in it, and I think some Oscar "Papa" Celestin, Wild Bill Davison, Bunk Johnson and more... will report back once the package gets here! I know this is not exactly "early jazz", but it's (mostly) guys of that generation doing their thing a few decades later (40s and 60s - was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

[Brute]

The date when Fats recorded Minor Drag and Harlem Fuss. IIRC it's a 1929 date. Condon gives a detailed account in his autobio "We called It Music."

This session is available on the CD "Fats Waller & His Buddies" an RCA/Victor Bluebird disc that is OOP but can be found used for pretty cheap. I think I paid around $6 for my copy.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Brute

[jazzbo]

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

The funny thing is, I don't know what I ordered, as from that site you don't get an order confirmation, but I guess latest by end of the week, there'll be a parcel waiting for me

Some more George Lewis will be in it, and I think some Oscar "Papa" Celestin, Wild Bill Davison, Bunk Johnson and more... will report back once the package gets here! I know this is not exactly "early jazz", but it's (mostly) guys of that generation doing their thing a few decades later (40s and 60s - was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

May take a little longer to arrive Flurin. Receiving orders from jazzology can take a few weeks domestically.

Edited December 15, 2009 by jazzbo

[king ubu]

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

The funny thing is, I don't know what I ordered, as from that site you don't get an order confirmation, but I guess latest by end of the week, there'll be a parcel waiting for me

Some more George Lewis will be in it, and I think some Oscar "Papa" Celestin, Wild Bill Davison, Bunk Johnson and more... will report back once the package gets here! I know this is not exactly "early jazz", but it's (mostly) guys of that generation doing their thing a few decades later (40s and 60s - was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

May take a little longer to arrive Flurin. Receiving orders from jazzology can take a few weeks domestically.

I ordered from a Swiss site... not sure if some discs have delivery times of 1-2 weeks, otherwise the package may be here by tomorrow already!

[papsrus]

I highly recommend the 2 Miff Mole SLIPPIN' AROUND volumes on Frog.

<a href="http://www.frogrecords.co.uk/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.frogrecords.co.uk/index.html</a>

(IIRC, these are J. R. T. Davies remasters.)

Listening to Vol. 1 now Joe, with Pee Wee, Red Nichols (!) and Jimmy Dorsey. Really nice.

And Davies was something else. I'm guessing he had as much, or more, to do with preserving (restoring) this type of music as any single person. (His Wiki entry is criminally lacking, btw).

[John L]

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

- was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

American Music seems to have died along with Bunk Johnson in the late 40s. But Atlantic and Good Time Jazz continued to make traditional recordings in the 50s (Paul Barbarin, Wilbur DeParis, Kid Ory, etc.) Storyville was also very active in the 50s, recording both US and European traditional bands.

[Chuck Nessa]

Bill Russell's American Music is now owned by Jazzology and they have been making some valuable reissues.

[jeffcrom]

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

- was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

American Music seems to have died along with Bunk Johnson in the late 40s. But Atlantic and Good Time Jazz continued to make traditional recordings in the 50s (Paul Barbarin, Wilbur DeParis, Kid Ory, etc.) Storyville was also very active in the 50s, recording both US and European traditional bands.

Joe Mares' Southland label was very active in New Orleans in the 50s. This was not always a good thing - the quality of their output varied a lot. But the best stuff was excellent, and a lot of it is coming out on American Music, since George Buck owns the Southland catalog now. Check out the underrated clarinetist Raymond Burke for an example of the good stuff.

[papsrus]

The date when Fats recorded Minor Drag and Harlem Fuss. IIRC it's a 1929 date. Condon gives a detailed account in his autobio "We called It Music."

Listening to the Fats Waller Proper box, which contains the four tracks from this date. Amazing.

'Handful of Keys" (Waller, solo)

'The Morning Drag' and 'Harlem Fuss' (Charlie Gaines, tp; Charlie Irvis, tb; Arville Harris, cl, as, ts; Fats Waller, p; Eddie Condon, bjo)

'Numb Fumblin' (Waller, solo)

This is really enjoyable, with a wonderful variety of music -- solo piano, cookin' small group, Fats' vocals. Great stuff.

Edited December 20, 2009 by papsrus

[Guest Bill Barton]

Big, big props to the suggestions of McKinney's Cotton Pickers. John Nesbitt doesn't get nearly as much attention as Don Redman, but he is one of the master arrangers of early large-ensemble jazz.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Bill Barton

[jazztrain]

I'll second the recommendation for Raymond Burke. Although Buck is sitting on a wealth of material, he has issued some gems, such as the Condon Town Hall concerts and the 6 and 7/8 String Band set.

Ordered some early jazz a few days ago... from the American Music label mostly (I only have one of their George Lewis discs).

- was there none of this revivalist stuff recorded in the 50s? There's plenty from 44/45 and then from around 59/60 on again, what was up in between? Just cool and hardbop and slime and candies?)

American Music seems to have died along with Bunk Johnson in the late 40s. But Atlantic and Good Time Jazz continued to make traditional recordings in the 50s (Paul Barbarin, Wilbur DeParis, Kid Ory, etc.) Storyville was also very active in the 50s, recording both US and European traditional bands.

Joe Mares' Southland label was very active in New Orleans in the 50s. This was not always a good thing - the quality of their output varied a lot. But the best stuff was excellent, and a lot of it is coming out on American Music, since George Buck owns the Southland catalog now. Check out the underrated clarinetist Raymond Burke for an example of the good stuff.

[jeffcrom]

I didn't think of this before, but pianist/arranger Tiny Parham made some some great sides in Chicago around the turn of the 30s. Real compositions, and some of the sessions have the great Punch Miller on trumpet. They were reissued on Timeless.

[brownie]

Check out Bubber Miley...

This one is pure joy!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Big, big props to the suggestions of McKinney's Cotton Pickers. John Nesbitt doesn't get nearly as much attention as Don Redman, but he is one of the master arrangers of early large-ensemble jazz.

Absolutely! Nesbitt's arrangement of "I've found a new baby" may be the world's first example of a totally GREEEEEAAAAZZZZYYYYY groove. It kills me every time. (But I expect Allen Lowe knows earlier ones )

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

One I bought recently and which has surprised me pleasantly as a prime example of some more pre-Swing era big band music (the music might well have fitted into the Jazz Oracle catalog, not only for its cleanly restored sound where John R.T. Davies had a hand again):

TEXAS & TENNESSEE TERRITORY BANDS 1928-1931 (Retrieval RTR 79006)

featuring Blue Steele & His Orchestra, Slim Lamar & His Southerners, Mart Britt & His Orchestra, Sunny Clapp & His Band O'Sunshine, Phil Baxter & His Orchestra (also known as Phil Baxter's Texas Tommies, according to a mention in the "Black Beauty, White Heat" book). Outside the big metropolitan centers, those Texas bands sure were among those who really had their act together.

[king ubu]

Played this one last night - very fine!

Jabbo Smith - 1929-1939 (Classics)

I see there's a Retrieval disc with two more 1929 tracks, but otherwise the same music.

The 1939 session added on the Classics (and not on the Retrieval) is nice enough, but not four essential tracks, so I guess the Retrieval is the better bet, but since I've got the Classics disc at a used store, I won't complain...

Punchy blowing by Jabbo Smith and some nice clarinet (and alto and tenor) by Omer Simeon!

Seems these sides were kind of an attempt to cash in on the Hot Fives' success, but that didn't work out, or so says Mr. Schenker in his liner notes. Also he mentions that Jabbo was viewed as the Dizzy of his time, and there's certainly some dazzling trumpet playing to be found here!

Here's the f/b covers of the Retrieval:

btw, still waiting for the package with all those American Music CDs to arrive...

[king ubu]

bump... still waiting for that order I mentioned, it went under in mid December, but when I wrote to ask about it yesterday, I got an answer immediately and they promised to send all the discs this week! I can't even remember what I ordered (that site - jazztime.ch - doesn't create automated emails for order confirmation).