Hip me to some (more) early jazz

[papsrus]

Realizing that this is a pretty broad category, I'm interested in delving further into that formative period of music/jazz that I suppose begins somewhere around 1920 or earlier and runs through the mid-30s. I find myself increasingly drawn to this period for a variety of reasons, but primarily because the music is just plain filled with such excitement and incredible musicianship. It soars.

I've managed to acquire a small number of some of the more widely known titles around, many of which I learned about here. But my appetite for this stuff just keeps growing. I kind of approach my search for this stuff in a scatter-shot manner now, which ain't a bad way to go. But I'd just like to refine my focus a little bit. And so, with that, I'm hoping the collective wisdom here can offer up some further suggestions. Here are some of the more well-known titles that find fairly regular rotation in the old CD player:

King Oliver -- Off the Record: The Complete 1923 Jazz Band Recordings

Louis Armstrong -- The Hot Fives and Sevens

Jelly Roll Morton -- The Complete Victor Recordings

Hot Dance Bands from OKeh 1923-1931

Original Memphis Five -- Columbias 1923 - 1931

New Orleans Rhythm Kings 1922 - 1925

Bennie Moten -- Band Box Shuffle

Jabbo Smith --1929 The Complete Set

Luis Russell 1929 - 1934

Teddy Wilson -- Of Thee I Swing

And probably a couple dozen other generally lesser-known titles from this period as well.

So, where might I turn next?

[brownie]

You have already tasted some Johnny Dodds, try looking for some of the sessions he recorded under his name. They're available on Retrieval, Frog and other reissue labels.

The Sidney Bechet box on JSP is highly recommended too!

Also check the JSP boxes: early Ellingtons, Eddie Lang & Joe Venuti.

Any of those will have you back on your feet in no time!

[kenny weir]

Two strands worth considering - although maybe a little later time-wise than you're seeking - are the New Orleans Revival and dixieland.

Warning: There are plenty, oodles of traps for the unwary - but the best of it if simply great music.

Time was when I thought dixieland a term of derision and contempt, but now I know better! I found it easy once I realised it had so much repertoire and approach in common with Bob Wills!

The revival stuff wasn't quite it was purported to be, but who cares?

Some of my faves:

The Eddie Condon JSP box - fabulous but getting pricey. Maybe it's gone OOP? $60 new from Amazon sellers.

Bud Freeman - Chicago/Austin High School Jazz In Hi-Fi (Mosaic)

Tony Parenti and His New Orleanians (Jazzology)

Art Hodes - The Jazz Records Story (Jazzology)

The 6 & 7/8s String Band (American Music) This is some crazy stuff and part of the New Orleans tradition mostly now forgotten: The usual warhorses done on guitar, mandolin, steel and bass. From about '40s-late '50s.

Bunk Johnson - King Of The Blues (American Music)

George Lewis - Trios & Bands (American Music)

Herb Morand - 1949 (American Music)

George Lewis/Kid Thomas Ragtime Stompers (GHB) Crowned by those Penguins don'tcha know?!

Source company for the Jazzology, GHB and American Music sets is here: http://www.jazzology.com/index.php

Service is good, but you may be able to do better price-wise elsewhere.

I find this stuff fascinating and there's times when nothing else does the job.

But unless you're an complete anorak for it, there are limits. For the simple reason that the collective, overlapping repertoire of both scenes is relatively limited.

Thankfully I only have When The Saints on a few discs, but have a screed of Chinatown and Darktown Strutters Ball, just for instance.

[Big Beat Steve]

@Papsrus:

Among your discs you list above, Teddy Wilson really falls a bit outside of the scope you seem to be aiming for. if this kind of jazz is also at the core of what you are looking for we will be well into the Swing era and there will be TONS of material to suggest.

But limiting oneself to the earlier stuff ("classic jazz", as many seem to call it nowadays), here are a few comments on the above suggestions and elaborations on these:

Don't know what the 1949 Herb Morand sides would be like, but if you are into jug/hokum/good time bands, try to get a sampling of the HARLEM HAMFATS (led by just this Herb Morand) of the 30s.

When it comes to very early "revival" jazz (beyond the Condonites), also try MUGGSY SPANIER's Ragtime Band (of the late 30s).

For earlier key recordings beyond the recommendations by other forumists and assuming you like your Luis Russell recordings, don't overlook the early (i.e. pre-early 30s) FLETCHER HENDERSON Orchestra

as well as McKINNEY'S COTTON PICKERS and the MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND of the early 30s.

And in a totally different vein, try the EDDIE LANG-JOE VENUTI groups.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yes - McKinney's Cotton Pickers was a wonderful band.

On the revivalist side, I have a couple of the albums Chris Albertson produced for Riverside under the collective title of "New Orleans: the living legends". These are very nice indeed - was just playing one this morning - "Jim Robinson's New Orleans Band". I reckon any of those you get you won't regret.

Here's Chris talking about making those albums -

http://stomp-off.blogspot.com/2009/11/new-orleans-1961.html

MG

[BillF]

Realizing that this is a pretty broad category, I'm interested in delving further into that formative period of music/jazz that I suppose begins somewhere around 1920 or earlier and runs through the mid-30s. I find myself increasingly drawn to this period for a variety of reasons, but primarily because the music is just plain filled with such excitement and incredible musicianship. It soars.

I've managed to acquire a small number of some of the more widely known titles around, many of which I learned about here. But my appetite for this stuff just keeps growing. I kind of approach my search for this stuff in a scatter-shot manner now, which ain't a bad way to go. But I'd just like to refine my focus a little bit. And so, with that, I'm hoping the collective wisdom here can offer up some further suggestions. Here are some of the more well-known titles that find fairly regular rotation in the old CD player:

King Oliver -- Off the Record: The Complete 1923 Jazz Band Recordings

Louis Armstrong -- The Hot Fives and Sevens

Jelly Roll Morton -- The Complete Victor Recordings

Hot Dance Bands from OKeh 1923-1931

Original Memphis Five -- Columbias 1923 - 1931

New Orleans Rhythm Kings 1922 - 1925

Bennie Moten -- Band Box Shuffle

Jabbo Smith --1929 The Complete Set

Luis Russell 1929 - 1934

Teddy Wilson -- Of Thee I Swing

And probably a couple dozen other generally lesser-known titles from this period as well.

So, where might I turn next?

I my youth (before I discovered Bird!!) I was very keen on New Orleans jazz of the 1920s and had the sort of modest collection of 12" LPs that people's budgets ran to in those days. It was your first three listed items - the Oliver, Armstong and Morton - but I also had a great album of tracks under the leadership of Kid Ory by the New Orleans Wanderers and New Orleans Bootblacks which inclued IIRC George Mitchell and Johnny Dodds and was very well recorded for the time. Perhaps someone could advise on where these tracks are now available?

Staying with Ory, does your remit include the New Orleans revival of the 1940s? If so, I can recommend his Creole band, especially these albums:

Edited December 2, 2009 by BillF

[kenny weir]

Don't know what the 1949 Herb Morand sides would be like, but if you are into jug/hokum/good time bands, try to get a sampling of the HARLEM HAMFATS (led by just this Herb Morand) of the 30s.

The Moran 1949 stuff is spirited stuff that has the not insignificant asset of being NOT by American Music stalwarts Bunk Johnson and George Lewis.

The final four tracks are wailing live goodies from a lakeside camp!

I doubt either session is ANYTHING like the Harlem Hamfats, whose recordings/reissues I tried to get a handle on a few months back in terms of availability, price and so. It all seemed a bit confusing.

There's another Morand session more recently available from American Music, shared with a band led by Paul Barbarin.

[king ubu]

Bill, I found that Old Time Jazz LP (the blue one) at the used book store recently! Good to see it's a recommended one! Haven't played it yet...

paps: try some Jimmie Lunceford! Frémeaux have a 2CD "Essential" set, maybe you score lucky with some Chrono Classics... brownie helped me get the full (?) run of the Masters of Jazz of his, and I have the Columbia 3LP set. Brilliant stuff, but also out of the scope of this thread, I think (but then it's you who listed Wilson, so...)

and speaking of Wilson: if you don't have the Billie Holiday Columbia recordings, there's a cheap wallet-box edition of them out now for very few $$ - glorious music!

I'll follow this thread myself, for more 20s recommendations!

[BillF]

Bill, I found that Old Time Jazz LP (the blue one) at the used book store recently! Good to see it's a recommended one! Haven't played it yet...

You have a treat in store! And you would never guess who's on guitar in a month of Sundays!

[king ubu]

Barney K, I guess?

[jazzbo]

Buy everything on the Jazz Oracle label. Everything.

http://www.jazzoracle.com/catalogue/index.asp

Edited December 2, 2009 by jazzbo

[king ubu]

any relation to?

[king ubu]

another great one that I already have:

Henry 'Red' Allen 1929-1933 (Chronogical Classics)

[carnivore]

There's an excellent 4CD box on JSP that has all of the recordings by Sam Morgan's band, A. J. Piron, Doc Cooke, the first Kid Orys etc. From a 'dixieland' point of view you wouldn't want to miss the Bob Crosby/Matty Matlock/Eddie Miller/Yank Lawson/Irving Fazola- evoling into the Rampart Street Paraders strand, including albums by the Lawson-Haggart Band - and collections under the names of both Wingy Manone and Red McKenzie carry many delights. Someone mentioned the Muggsy Spanier Ragtimers - to me they are absolutely seminal - maybe because I grew up with them!

[mikelz777]

This 4-CD box set of traditional/New Orleans revivalist music is definitely worth checking out and can be had pretty reasonably if you shop around.

Lu Watters And The Yerba Buena Jazz Band - The Complete Good Time Jazz Recordings

[brownie]

Another JSP box that can be highly recommended is the Jimmy Noone one!

Awesome playing by Noone with Earl Hines shining on many tracks!

[BillF]

Barney K, I guess?

You guessed right!

[Neal Pomea]

Breaking Out of New Orleans (JSP)

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Out-New-Orl...9/dp/B0002LPYVC

Anybody have recommendations for the New Orleans Owls?

Edited December 2, 2009 by It Should be You

[jeffcrom]

Anybody have recommendations for the New Orleans Owls?

All of the Owls' recordings are on:

http://www.amazon.com/Owls-Hoot-New-Orleans/dp/B000007SE7

They are a good, but not essential band, in my opinion. Their earlier recordings are very nice (the first session has Leon Ropollo), but they got more and more pop-trendy later in the 1920s.

There are lots of good recommendations here - I'll just add:

Explore Johnny Dodds' recordings under his own name and with other bands besides Oliver and Armstrong. He was very consistent in quality until his last session.

Don't be scared off of Bunk Johnson by some of the comments above. He was remarkably inconsistent, but his best work is quite moving. King of the Blues on American Music might be a good place to start. Even on that CD, there's some spotty work, but "Careless Love" and "Midnight Blues" are stunning.

Edited to correct my spelling of Roppolo. And I see that Dodds has already been mentioned, so consider my mention a second.

And I can't believe that none of us thought of mentioning Bix until Larry's post below!

Edited December 2, 2009 by jeffcrom

[Larry Kart]

Bix!

[jeffcrom]

One more - The New Orleans Rhythm Kings. Variable, but their best stuff is essential. The whole shootin' match is on The Complete Set on Retrieval.

[king ubu]

One more - The New Orleans Rhythm Kings. Variable, but their best stuff is essential. The whole shootin' match is on The Complete Set on Retrieval.

NORK - mentioned in the first post... I got the Retrieval recently, still need to play it!

[paul secor]

Freddie Keppard: 1923 - 1926 (Retrieval) - The sound isn't the greatest - tho John R. T. Davies probably did it up as well as possible - but there are times when his trumpet shines through and you get a sense of where the music came from.

[Bright Moments]

i think i recall someone on this board hawkin' something about a "devlin' tune"

[Big Beat Steve]

Not a million miles away from the Condonites, and particularly one for those who enjoy Wingy Manone's mid-30s recordings (as mentioned above):

SHARKEY BONANO & HIS SHARKS OF RHYTHM (1936-37)

No idea what current CD reissue these would be on (I have them on an older LP on the TOM/The Old Masters label) but with names like Fazola, Bushkin, Marsala, Brunis and Wettling in the lineup, how can you go really wrong?