The bowed (arco) upright bass

[Chas]

The new Henry Grimes double CD "Solo" has a lot of great arco and pizz bass along with some violin. It's not for the faint of heart but there's some beautiful playing on these discs.

As a bassist yourself your enthusiasm is understandable , but a 2-and-a-half-hour solo bass album strikes me as an indulgence not likely to be granted by many non-musician jazz fans .

[7/4]

The new Henry Grimes double CD "Solo" has a lot of great arco and pizz bass along with some violin. It's not for the faint of heart but there's some beautiful playing on these discs.

As a bassist yourself your enthusiasm is understandable , but a 2-and-a-half-hour solo bass album strikes me as an indulgence not likely to be granted by many non-musician jazz fans .

Sounds interesting to me! I remember getting Dave Holland's Emerald Tears when I was a kid and being just blown away. Ones All, his other solo bass album was nice, but didn't have the same effect.

2 1/2 hours of bowed bass might be a bit much.

[7/4]

Too bad the thread isn't called the bowed upright bass - arco, so down thread readers/posters know what it's all about.

Edited November 25, 2009 by 7/4

[Pete B]

Hmmm....no love for Slam Stewart? For my money, he's still the best.

[JohnT]

As a bassist yourself your enthusiasm is understandable , but a 2-and-a-half-hour solo bass album strikes me as an indulgence not likely to be granted by many non-musician jazz fans .

Yes, as a bassist I am a little biased.

I would also agree that 2 and a half hours of solo bass and violin is definetly not for everyone. However, for those so inclined to try something a little different, they might find some beautiful music within.

[AndrewHill]

Don't think its been mentioned by I also really dig David Holland and Barre Phillips' Music From Two Basses.

[kh1958]

Charles Mingus' arco playing may not be really correct by academic standards but it is his solos (on the UCLA concert, for instance) that really get to me.

It would be Mingus for me as well. Probably something from the 1964 European Tour.

Mingus' playing on the various versions of Meditations.

[jazzbo]

Yes. I'm so glad after meditation he didn't put the wire-cutters to the bass. . . or the bow.

[randyhersom]

I've always loved the effect that Mingus got on Red Norvo's Time and Tide, almost like bouncing the bow off the strings.

Walt Dickerson always got the most out of a bass player, try God Bless the Child from To My Queen for some great George Tucker bowed bass. Lisle Atkinson's playing on Peace is stunning, but I can't remember if any of it is arco.

[JohnT]

George Tucker is one of my favorite bass players but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information known about him. Does anybody know where I could find out more information about his life, etc.?

(I don't want to derail this thread -- this probably should have gone under it's own thread but it seemed appropriate here)

[funkogre]

I'm no fan of bowing, but of all the bassists who occasionally ply that trade, Paul Chambers has to be the worst. When he goes arco, it sounds to me like he's got as good a chance of sawing his instrument in two as he does of completing the solo.

I agree that his arco sound isn't the most beautiful in the world, (his rhythm is always right on the money though) but you have to remember that he played gut strings. I think they were Golden Spiral brand (nylon wrapped gut) which I've heard were very difficult to bow! Most bass players today use metal strings which are far easier to bow (many jazz players use gut or synthetic gut strings still today). I always liked PC's arco solo on his tune, "Tale of the Fingers."

[Guest Bill Barton]

Charles Mingus, Malachi Favors, Richard Davis, David Holland, Barre Phillips and the amazing John Edwards (I don't believe that anyone else has mentioned him yet) are among the players who have reached me over the years.

[colinmce]

Wow, I'm surprised by the dislike for PC in here-- I love his arco playing. A couple of my favorites from him are "Billy Boy" from Milestones and "Dear Old Stockholm" from Bass On Top. Exhilirating playing to my ears.

I also enjoy Henry Grimes' bow work-- he did arco some solos with Sonny Rollins and Roy Haynes that are great.

And while there are no solos the arco work on Andrew Hill's "Wailing Wall" on Smokestack by Richard Davis and/or(?) Eddie Kahn is exquisite.

[Shrdlu]

Hmmm....no love for Slam Stewart? For my money, he's still the best.

I love Slam! And recently, I saw him in a vid (Daily Motion I think) where he played very modern.

[Shrdlu]

Some of you don't like Paul Chambers' arco work? I'm sad to hear that.

A particularly good example of that is on the title track from "Bags and Trane". I've loved that since 1962. That session has been greatly under-rated. That title track just about hypnotizes me.

[king ubu]

just dropping by to say I enjoy Chambers' arco playing...

and to throw in another name:

Joelle Leandre (or Joëlle Léandre)

http://www.joelle-leandre.com/

http://www.efi.group.shef.ac.uk/mleandre.html

I guess she's best checked out live - a consummate artist of intriguing breadth and scope... saw her live in duets with Lauren Newton and Roy Campbell, both were great concerts!

[Steve Reynolds]

the modern avant-garde bassists took bass playing to more places arguably than musicians playing on all the other standard jazz instruments - and much of it is played with a bow

the greatest bassists I've encountered are:

Peter Kowald - RIP

Barry Guy

Joelle Leandre

Mark Dresser

John Edwards

Paul Rogers

all of them play from a supporting role to a primary role in the ensemble and in small groups, they are never really subservient in the traditional jazz role

seeing all of them live save for Edwards (as I don't think he has been stateside) gave me a deeper idea of the immense power of all their playing

live - Rogers & Guy were stunning beyond normal comprehension

One time when I saw Rogers with Dunmall and Norton, he was so incredible I still don't know great he really was....

Barry Guy live (and I have seen him only one time - with Crispell & Hemingway) - I was 10 - 15 feet away and it was a total mind fuck - what he does with the bow and his effects is pretty much beyond what the bass is supposedly capable of.

[AllenLowe]

"the modern avant-garde bassists took bass playing to more places arguably than musicians playing on all the other standard jazz instruments - and much of it is played with a bow"

sorry, but Pops Foster and Bill Johnson took the bass to the same places, about 50-75 years earlier.

not to mention Jimmy Blanton.

Hell, Pops used to say if he didn't know the changes he would just thump away and watch all the pretty girls.

Can't get much further out than that -

[Pete B]

Hell, Pops used to say if he didn't know the changes he would just thump away and watch all the pretty girls.

Words to live by.....

[Larry Kart]

Bill Crow (in the June 1959 Jazz Review) on PC's playing on "Benny Golson's "New York Scene":

"I much prefer Paul's plucked solo work to his bowing; his conception is excellent, but the predominance of extraneous overtones in his arco sound disguises the tone of the instrument and makes the notes he is playing difficult to hear.... His chorus on 'Something in B Flat' (bowed) sounds like a large insect trying to escape from a bass drum."

[Chuck Nessa]

The "extraneous overtones" is my favorite feature of PC's bowing.

[J.A.W.]

"Extraneous overtones'... hm... that's one way of putting it; to me Chambers' bowing just sounds out of tune

Probably something wrong with my ageing ears

[J.A.W.]

just dropping by to say I enjoy Chambers' arco playing...

and to throw in another name:

Joelle Leandre (or Joëlle Léandre)

http://www.joelle-leandre.com/

http://www.efi.group.shef.ac.uk/mleandre.html

As long as she doesn't vocalize...

Edited November 26, 2009 by J.A.W.

[Hot Ptah]

I like the first ten tracks on Richard Davis' "Reminisces" album--one great arco solo after another. The first time I heard them, I was stunned, and I am still pretty much stunned by them.

I have always liked Richard Davis' "Summertime" arco solo on the "Heavy Sounds" album co-led by Elvin Jones and Richard Davis, on Impulse.

In live performance, Richard Davis is difficult to top on arco.

[Larry Kart]

The "extraneous overtones" is my favorite feature of PC's bowing.

I know what you mean, I think -- the grit and the funkiness -- but I also think that the final effects had a fair bit to do with how he was miked. This is without having gone back to check, and it sounds a little crazy because it was the same engineer (RVG) throughout, but I recall thinking back then that PC's bowed solos usually had a somewhat more distant sonic perspective on Prestige (more of the formed note, less "overtones," albeit less "presence") than was the case on Blue Note.