"DRUMMER'S CORNER"

[CJ Shearn]

Danny, randissimo, interesting about the hearing loss. I'm 22 but b/c of the amount of music I listen to loud, and in headphones, I should cut it back b/c I'm finding sometimes in convos I'm talking to people like "what?" sometimes, but I know if I was a drummer I'd prolly use ear protection. I meanmost of the time in my dorm or at home mostly you'll hear booming through thre speakers: Miles, Metheny, Tony, Blakey, Joshua Reman, etc....... I should cut the levels a bit, in my dorm,I have the aforementioned in another thread Coby CD/DVD player hooked up to the crappy surround speakers and sub that came with it. with the computer fan running it's hard to hear the thing at low levels.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'll try to post some more specific info later, but I would highly suggest people consider getting some "musicians earplugs", which are custom-made ear molds, with little filters that you slip into them. One set of filters will cut the overall sound by 15dB, and the other set will cut things by 25dB (the filters both fit the same molds).

I have a set, which I use when I go to rock concerts, and even occasionally over amplified jazz concerts. My Mom (who is a retired audiologist), insisted that I get them about 10 years ago, as I was going to a fair number of loud concerts back then.

I've also used them on-stage, occasionally, when I sing (baritone) in the Kansas City Symphony Chorus. They come in handy, in particular, when the chorus is on stage for an entire work, where we only sing in the last movement (and we're stuck up on stage for like 40+ minutes before we sing). Think Beethoven's 9th, although we've done a few other things (like Christmas Pops concerts with the symphony), where we're stuck on stage for long periods without singing. Something about us being the visual "wallpaper" behind the orchestra, since empty seats on risers doesn’t look very nice.

I think they run about $100-$200 (they ain't exactly cheap), but they cut the frequency levels equally, for both bass and treble. The sound you hear is MUCH more natural than with the el-cheapo foam earplugs. Also, those don't cut very low frequencies nearly as well as the pro-earplugs. The custom molds go fairly deep into the ear canal, and do a much better job of blocking all sound equally.

I'll try to find some links, and post some info here later this weekend.

[randissimo]

Danny, randissimo, interesting about the hearing loss.  I'm 22 but b/c of the amount of music I listen to loud, and in headphones, I should cut it back b/c I'm finding sometimes in convos I'm talking to people like "what?" sometimes, but I know if I was a drummer I'd prolly use ear protection.  I meanmost of the time in my dorm or at home mostly you'll hear booming through thre speakers: Miles, Metheny, Tony, Blakey, Joshua Reman, etc.......  I should cut the levels a bit, in my dorm,I have the aforementioned in another thread Coby CD/DVD player hooked up to the crappy surround speakers and sub that came with it.  with the computer fan running it's hard to hear the thing at low levels.

One of the biggest problems is dealing with sound techs who obviously are into metal bands and pop and think they have to mike the drums real close and they'll mix heavy on the subwoofers with almost no high end. So consequently, the listeners hear no high end in the mix and the bass drum ends up being the loudest component in the drum mix.. I asked this moron one time while he was setting up the mikes, "Aren't you going to mike the cymbals with overheads"? ,, He looked at me and belligerently just said " Why??"..

Edited November 28, 2003 by randissimo

[Jim Alfredson]

Randy, what about that set you played on the Mitch Albom show... the Yamaha Beech Customs. That was a killer set!!

Organissimo is going to go all in-ear monitoring very soon. In-ear monitors are great because they are earplugs and earphones in one. So you block out all the loudness and have your very own personal mix right in your ear at any level you want.

Great stuff!

[randissimo]

Randy, what about that set you played on the Mitch Albom show... the Yamaha Beech Customs. That was a killer set!!

Organissimo is going to go all in-ear monitoring very soon. In-ear monitors are great because they are earplugs and earphones in one. So you block out all the loudness and have your very own personal mix right in your ear at any level you want.

Great stuff!

That Yamaha Beech custom kit was great! I hardly even had to tweek the tuning on the heads which had many dents..

I look forward to the in ear system.. I'm pretty burned out on the wedge style monotors...

[dave9199]

Doncha hate it when you hit yourself in the face or nose with your hi-hat stick?

Did ya ever kick your set over? Keith Moon made it look like it takes longer than it does, but it's over pretty quick once the bass drum knocks most of it over. He had a double kit though...

[randissimo]

Doncha hate it when you hit yourself in the face or nose with your hi-hat stick?

Did ya ever kick your set over? Keith Moon made it look like it takes longer than it does, but it's over pretty quick once the bass drum knocks most of it over. He had a double kit though...

I played a jazz club back in '76 in Munich, Germany called the Jazz Domicile. The club owner (Arnst was his name) got really drunk and came up onstage to sing some or some nonsense, tripped over the mic cord and fell backwards, trashing the face and bridge on a half size Czech bass, and took down almost my whole drumkit! It was the ugliest sounds I've ever heard!! Arnst was profusely apologetic after it happened and offered to pay for our rooms and any damaged incurred... The next day he didn't remember any of the night before and flatly refused to pay for anything! The bass player took the matter into some kind of International Court and I don't think he ever got re-imbursed for extensive repairs he had to have done....

Edited November 28, 2003 by randissimo

[CJ Shearn]

Soundmixes from guys who aren't jazz savvy bother me too. Last week I was at a Harpur Jazz Ensemble concert on campus with special guests John McNeil and Ron Vincent on drums, and the mixes at any jazz gigs at Binghamton University are horrible,at times way too trebly, at other times you cannot hear brass in the mix, reeds or guitar. When I saw the PMG last year at SUNY Purchase, the mix was amazing, with David Oakes at the controls. He really had a balanced mix, even for songs that get ear bleeding loud like "Scrap Metal", not once did the levels reach to the point of being uncomfortable. Another good mix was Jimmy Smith and Jack McDuff live at the Blue Note in January '98.

[neveronfriday]

They then sent me to have a hearing test.

I was put in a sound proof room with headphones and the chickie was doin' the frequency button thing. At one point I was hearing through the walls of the soundproof room the answering machine in the front office.

Wingy,

funny you should mention a test like that. A few years ago I got my ears blown out by an amassment of horns on top of some stupid truck whose driver had to signal his compadre right when I was standing next to the truck that it was lunch time (those horns are illegal over here, but of course those nitwits didn't give a hoot ).

Luckily enough, there is a doctor right down the road who is a good friend of mine, so I was ushered right by the imbeciles in the waiting room (speed is of the essence in cases like these, I have been told) and got the first infusion of many to stop my hearing from disappearing completely.

Anyway, here comes the fun part of the story:

At some point, a couple of days down the road, I had to do that frequency test a second time, and the chick who was doing the frequency button thing did so in rhythm! Beep, check off list, beep, check off list, beep. Needless to say, although I'm not prone to cheating, I did. I couldn't help it.

My friend was wondering what I had been yapping about all the time. He let me know I had bionic hearing.

Cheers!

P.S.: My hearing did return back to normal, somewhat (I still get those high-pitched whines once in a while), but then again, sitting next to two huge Marshall stacks for more than 5 years probably didn't help the whole thing either.

[neveronfriday]

In Germany we have a company called "Hearsafe" that tries to help drummers avoid developing hearing loss. They're called HearSafe and they offer a wide range of protective gear:

http://www.hearsafe.de/englisch/frsetE02.htm

Cheers!

P.S.: The company is actively promoted by a German drummer named Wolf Simon, founder of the charity HEAR!, who after years of having exposed himself to too much noise as one of Germany's most in-demand session and live drummers, lost his hearing in (over?) a wide frequency range. He almost had to stop drumming altogether.

Edited November 28, 2003 by deus62

[randissimo]

Last night I played a jazz club in Ann Arbor and used the house drums, basically a somewhat abused Pearl workhorse with most of the cymbal washers gone, on one of the cymbal stands the cymbal mount rod had stripped out and was loose, and the throw off mechanism on the snare drum had been doctored up with a hair tie back.. However, the kit sounded pretty nice.

Though several of the tension rod claws were bending out from metal fatigue stress and barely holding tension and right at the edge of popping off the hoop, I especially liked the sound of that bass drum, which had a closed front head on it and a lovely tone which blended very well with the acoustic bass.

Right now I have the typical 22' bass drum with a 10" cut out on the front head and a pillow in the drum.. For the funk and commercial gigs this works great.. However, for jazz I really like the open tone sound..

Ideally I would like to put a closed head on the front and baffle the drum somehow so I can get a short but rich tone from the bass drum that would be compatible with the funk & commercial gigs.

I am interested in suggestions

[mikeweil]

I hate to muffle the bass drum. I have a 22" REMO mastertouch with Renaissance heads and all I use is one Moongel pad on each head, placed over the logo. My experience is that most other musicians and sound men have to get used to it, but it blends more with the band sound than you might think - but you have to play softly! The funky kick sound is not for me, although I like to listen to it, but I hate it when I have to play on one of these things.

Edited November 29, 2003 by mikeweil

[.:.impossible]

I could use some suggestions on a bass drum pedal. I've been using the same old "no-name" pedal for the past few years and the nylon strap finally snapped last week. I'd bet the pedal is from the early 70s probably. I've played some of the DW5000 pedals, but there are so many options!

Any suggestions?

[randissimo]

I could use some suggestions on a bass drum pedal. I've been using the same old "no-name" pedal for the past few years and the nylon strap finally snapped last week. I'd bet the pedal is from the early 70s probably. I've played some of the DW5000 pedals, but there are so many options!

Any suggestions?

My suggestion is to go to a store with a fairly large inventory and test out pedals (and you should be sitting when testing the pedals. ) It works best if you can hook up the pedal you're checking out to a bass drum.

[jazzbo]

Yes definitely check out pedals; they can be so very different one to the next!

I have an old Camco pedal that I love and haven't really used another pedal that I like as much. The Sonor pedal that I have with my kit is much more adjustable and heavy duty, and I almost like it as much, but the Camco just feels like my foot, that's the best way to describe it, I just play the bass drum as I think, as if I were just using my foot directly; it couples to my ankle and does just what it should.

Actually I bet everyone's ankle and foot and what they do with it are different, so there's probably a pedal out there for you that is just right!

[jazzbo]

And yeah, two headed bass drums are the best. You get that springback off the drum head that helps a lot, and you get that resonance. Mine is too big really, I want one day if I go back into drumming to have a smaller diameter drum. But I don't do more than just throw a towel in the drum; I like the sound and feel as it is. I just learned to strike it more gently. . . .

[mikeweil]

But I don't do more than just throw a towel in the drum; I like the sound and feel as it is. I just learned to strike it more gently. . . .

Nice to read somebody else feels similarly about his bassdrum! As I posted above, I muffle only with two moongel pads and strike very softly; I'm practicing to control the bounce of the beater to have an open tone or a muffled one when I let the beater rest on the head. As I started playing hand drums I always try to get a sound as if I strike the drum with my fingers - I recently used a rubber ball beater used with electronic drums on a 18" converted floor tom with good results, very clear open tone. There's much room for experimentation, but only if you use an open sound and play softly, if you want a kick and muffle I feel it doesn't matter very much what brand you play ... Right now I use a two sided beater and switch around according to the music played: one side is rather hard and suede covered, the other is soft lamb felt.

I use two bass drum pedals, a DW 500 and a cheap Sonor but couldn't say they are so much different, only that the DW is much more convenient to set up as it has the tightening screw at the side.

[mikeweil]

BTW my cymbals are all UFIP, I like their rather silvery sound. I have a Sabian mini cup ride for my timbales, but everything else is UFIP, they make excellent splash cymbals.

Reagrding hearing loss: I impaired my left ear with too many agogo bells in samba lessons I gave. Yes, you have to use protection. I got even more sensitive after this, sometimes even normal high hat playing is too much.

[.:.impossible]

I could use some suggestions on a bass drum pedal. I've been using the same old "no-name" pedal for the past few years and the nylon strap finally snapped last week. I'd bet the pedal is from the early 70s probably. I've played some of the DW5000 pedals, but there are so many options!

Any suggestions?

My suggestion is to go to a store with a fairly large inventory and test out pedals (and you should be sitting when testing the pedals. ) It works best if you can hook up the pedal you're checking out to a bass drum.

Do I sense sarcasm? If not, thanks for the advice.

I like many of the UFIP cymbals I have played. A couple of friends and I used to swap cymbals back and forth, so we'd always have a decent variety circulating. Right now all I have up here in Rhode Island is this HUGE, dark, droning Zildjian ride. In large black cursive magic marker, it reads "Sold J Black." It is a terrible cymbal, but I like it for some reason!

[SGUD missile]

Yes definitely check out pedals; they can be so very different one to the next!

I have an old Camco pedal that I love and haven't really used another pedal that I like as much.

Yes definitely check out pedals; they can be so very different one to the next!

I have an old Camco pedal that I love and haven't really used another pedal that I like as much.

sometimes , the stuff they made 30 years ago IS better than what you have available now ..

If you can lay your hands on an old Camco pedal that was chain modified by Frank Ippolito, buy it! The wak spot on the original was the leather strap, and the chain/sprocket modification fixed that for good!

look in the back of drum shops ..you might even find a couple "old" Ks

[Chuck Nessa]

I thought we had machines to replace you guys.

[.:.impossible]

That is a good suggestion. Maybe I will have the strap replaced with a chain, if that's possible. The strap was a thin strip of leather, a thin strip of nylon, and another thin strip of leather.

The problem that I've had with the DW's and other pedals is they seem to have too much bounce. Often, I get a flutter out of the thing rather than a kick.

[randissimo]

I thought we had machines to replace you guys.

WHY I OUGHTA!!

[randissimo]

I'm interested in drumset method books or methods any of you may have developed, particularly for students making the transition from practice pad to drum kit.. I've been using the Jim Chapin book, Ted Reed's Syncopation, and the Alfred's drumset book.. Other suggestions?

I welcome other concepts and approaches to teaching, so as to better instruct young and aspiring drummers...

[SGUD missile]

You might want to check out Steve Houghtons website ..he has several books

out that concentrate on the function of the drummer in a group, reading, and other

essential skills:

http://www.houghtonmusic.com/