Tenors West - Jimmy Giuffre w/ Marty Paich Octet

[king ubu]

I just picked up this GNP Crescendo LP (it was released in the Vintage Series, as GNPS 9040, date on sleeve is 1977).

AMG mentions the following musicians:

Conte Candoli - t

Bob Enevoldsen - vtb (solos), ts (in ensembles)

Harry Klee - flute (solos), ts (in ensembles)

Bob Cooper - ts

Jack Dulong - bari

then obviously Giuffre, on tenor, maybe other instruments, and Paich on piano.

AMG states that Giuffre "replaces Cooper on the later session" (the dates given are Nov. 9 and 10, 1955. (See the review here)

Now my question: does anyone has more details, and knows if Giuffre plays on half of it, only? I guess I won't be able to tell Cooper and Giuffre, if they're both on tenor only!

The liners do identify the soloists, but not the tenor player for each track. Then, it would seem a little bit of nonsense to call the LP Tenors, and then mention only Giuffre if Cooper was in the same role for half of the LP, no?

The liner notes (by Leonard Feather) mention Art Mardigan being the drummer. So we only seem to miss the bass player, if it's 8 musicians + Giuffre. If it's 8 + either Giuffre or Cooper, we would miss someone else, too, but I don't think this is the case.

Feather writes:

Neither the ears nor the memories of those involved can be quite certain of the roles played by the various soloists in Tenors West; but it is safe to state that Harry Klee played saxophones in a section role and was heard as a soloist only on flute. Bob Enevoldsen, though he played tenor on both dates, soloed only on valve trombone. Bob Cooper plays the tenor, in counterpoint to with Enevoldsen's bone, on Paichence, and it is probably Cooper also on Take the A Train, but the rest of the blowing may be credited to Giuffre."

This does not make it clear if Cooper and Giuffre were both on the two dates (on which nothing is said besides what's in the quote above).

So my guess: two dates, both 8 (incl. Cooper) + Giuffre. Maybe Joe Mondragon could be the bass player? Max Bennett or Red Mitchell also played in Paich outfits in that time.

Anyone has done some research on this one?

thanks,

ubu

[P.D.]

I have this album, but must confess to not having played it for a long time. Your question interested me too and I did a search in the Lord

This is what I found.

Both dates were under Marty Paich's leadership

Nov 9 1955

Candoli,Envoldsen,Harry Klee ( alto / flute) Cooper/Jack Dulong bari/Paich/Joe Mondragon bass / Art Madigan drums

Tenors West

Ballet de Bongo ( Costanzo added on bongo)

Paich-ence

Con Spirtto

The Dragon

Mardi Gras

Nov 10 same band but Giuffre replaces Cooper

There is No You

A Train

Line for Lyons

Shorty George

Jacqueline

So it would seem that the tenors don't play together ( it'll be hell if there's a tenor sax chase chorus somewhere )

I haven't got the album in front of me, so I don't know if the tracks are arranged Cooper one side, Giuffre the other, or just mixed in.

As these are Paich dates, it would be interesting to know, from a discographical point of view, if it was intentional to feature two different tenors, or if Cooper was unavailable for the second date and Giuffre was called in.

Hope that helps.

[king ubu]

Thanks, P.D.!

Hell, I recognized Mondragon!

The possible tenor chase could be explained by Enevoldsen and Klee both playing (at least) section tenor to get the three tenors & bari four brothers sound (as Feather states). So there might be some short solistical phrases with several tenors involved...

The personnel listing implies that the Octet this time includes Cooper and Giuffre, respectively. (There's these Tormé Bethlehems were the "Paich Dek-tette" listed has 10 musicians + Paich, so those octet/tentet tags seem not always very reliable)

Will listen to the album next week sometimes and check it out and report back!

ubu

[P.D.]

Sorry for my laziness.. Both Envoldsen and Klee are listed as playing tenor also..

Now I will have to pull that album out, to see if there is indeed any part where more than one tenor plays outside the ensemble.

Edited November 28, 2003 by P.D.

[brownie]

I had that album when it was released in France (Vogue or Jazz Selection) in the late '50s. Very nice date. Always found it puzzling that it was reissued under Jimmy Giuffre's name since he plays on several tracks only. I remember coming across a 10incher of the original Marty Paich Octet GNP issue. A red vinyl in bad shape and the cover was worse. And the price was unacceptable.

Got the GNP reissue and will give that one a listen.

[king ubu]

Currently listening to it. The info posted by PDEE makes perfect sense, it seems

thanks again,

ubu