New software, new warning system

[Jim Alfredson]

Just for clarification, nothing has changed except implementing a snazzy little graphic under your names for me and Use to keep track of things with. We have over 500 members now and I need a reliable and easy system for keeping track of trouble.

I honestly don't see using this much, but if we do it'll help keep track of where people stand.

What are "warnable" offenses? I'm not quite sure yet. I'm open to suggestions. I'm basically still relying on you guys to police yourselves but this is a midway option between saying nothing and banning. This gives people a chance to see where they stand and gives us some play in enforcing the rules without flat out banning someone.

Again, I'm open to suggestions. I'm not going to be watching all of you like Big Brother. I don't have time for that. I will still appreciate "Report This Post" links or emails or PMs to me from people who think I or Use should be aware of something.

[Jim Alfredson]

Are you going to reinstate those already thrown out? If this is the way it was back when Greg got into it with Dan, he would most likely still be here.

I've thought about that. The whole situation never sat well with me. Not that I thought Greg didn't deserve some kind of reprimand for that whole situation...

You know, this is hard part. Honestly (and I hope this doesn't make me look like a wimp) I've become friends with a lot of you... personal friends. I mean, I've met Dan in Florida (great guy), Paul (Conn500)... Sangry and Moose and Rooster post so much I think I know them. It's difficult to stay objective in this situation.

My brother is much different. He doesn't really care for jazz, doesn't know many of you very well and the problems we discuss, his first instinct is usually a lot harsher than mine. That comes from his experience on other boards, mainly video game based boards that get more than their fair share of young, stupid boys logging in just to make trouble. The rules they have on some of those boards make this one look like paradise.

The goal is to find a balance between heavy-handedness and light heartedness, between personal relationships and objectivity. I'm hoping that this new system can help with that. With it I can say, even to people I consider good friends, "Hey man, that wasn't cool. Here's one warning." Hopefully they don't get pissed at me and a week or so later I take the warning back (they aren't permanent, ya know).

The Greg thing was definately not cool. Dan's response wasn't cool either, but understandable given the circumstances. Maybe both should've received some warnings, maybe a possible "time out" period of no posting and then every would go back to normal.

I'm looking for input here. Should we welcome Greg back? I have nothing against it personally. Yes, he pissed me off. Did I handle it correctly? Yes and no. Was there some personal bias behind the decision. Yes. Did he deserve some sort of punishment for his actions? Yes. Should he come back?

I'll leave that to you guys.

One more note concerning Wingy. Please please please PLEASE... unless it's directly aimed at you and is threatening to you or your family... ignore him if you know you don't like him. I'll say it yet again. Version 2.0 of this software will be out this coming January with full ignore implementation. Until then, please censor yourself. Don't read his posts, don't respond to them if you do. If you think they're above and beyond, let me know.

I'm trying to work this out fairly with all involved. I admit I like Danny. I know people like him in real life from being a musician. I'm somewhat used to that stuff. I realize some people are not used to it and don't want to be. That's fine. But let's deal with it like adults. Tell me. Email me. PM me. I won't complain about it like the other day, I promise!

Ideas, opinions, criticism, comments... fire away.

[Jazz]

You'll just have to take my word for it that I'm familiar with the personalities on this board - I mostly just lurk.

I'd like to say that I think that you have handled everything on this board with a fair-minded and very thoughtful attitude, B-3er, which is more than is required of you since this board is yours and you can ban who you please when you feel like it. I think that that in itself is more than commendable, and I also think this hangout is one hip joint.

I won't offer any advice or any more opinions since I am not exactly a true member of this community, but I will say that I have enjoyed reading the thoughts here on either politics, jazz, or what have you.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Moral Supporter,

Jazzy

[AfricaBrass]

I agree with Jazz! Great job, Jim and co.

Jazz,

Great post!

I hope you feel free to post more often. I mostly lurked at the BNBB for years. I felt the same way that you do about everyone there. I felt like they were friends (even though they really didn't know me). When the BNBB fell, I realized how much that place and the people there had meant to me. That's when I said what the hell and jumped in the pool. Even though I don't contribute really valuable jazz info, like some do, I figure there's a place for all of us. We all bring something different of equal value to the table. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Jazz]

You, sir, are very nice.

[Jazzmoose]

I mostly just lurk.

I'll say; where the heck have you been!! I thought you'd left!

[Jazz]

Wow, somebody remembers me!

Well, not to hijack the thread, but I just had to make a few changes to my life and I've been pretty occupied with that - finding a new direction after my dreams of being a jazz musician died.

I also felt that I really never had much to offer in the way of adding to the numerous insights into jazz here, so I just like to read now and then.

Sorry for the tangent!

[Rooster_Ties]

Yes, Jazz, please consider jumping in more often. You may not post frequently, but whenever I see your Avatar (seriously), I always remember some very valuable posts you've made, here and there. Your contributions are most welcome, and please feel free to chime as much as you can and would like to.

You (Jazz) have the benefit of knowing us, far more than we know you - and I feel that's our loss - cuz you definitely seem like a good guy.

I lurked on the BNBB for a few months, before I dove in. "Free For All" lurked for literally a few years (at least two years, that I know of), before I goaded him into joining in.

I'm absolutely sure that I speak for many of us, in saying that you (and anyone else who lurks more than posts) are totally welcome to contribute (or contribute more often), even if it's just a matter of asking questions, or adding tangential info to threads, or any other way you can think of. The more the merrier.

And Jazz - you in particular seem like the kind of level-headed person I'd be glad to hear more from, and get to know better.

[AfricaBrass]

Thanks Jazz!

I remember you too.

I also felt that I really never had much to offer in the way of adding to the numerous insights into jazz here, so I just like to read now and then.

All I do is put cat heads on people. There's room for everyone here. I don't think I've had anything interesting to say about jazz in months.

It's just a nice place to make friends and talk about STUFF.

[Jazz]

WOW guys, thanks for all the nice comments! They made my T-Day much brighter, sincerely.

Thank you Rooster, for the encouragement. It's really nice to know someone considered my posts actually VALUABLE! I'll try and peek my head in here a little more often for a while, for sure.

AfricaBrass don't underestimate your cat-head-power! Your latest incarnation of James T. Cat has had me rolling in laughter for a while now.

[AfricaBrass]

Thanks Jazz! I'm glad you like the cat.

If you ever want ol' James T. to pay a visit to your avatar, please feel free to ask.

[Jazz]

Tim Curry has asked me to inform you that he would be honored by the presence of James T. Cat in his humble (if somewhat morbid) skull avatar!

[AfricaBrass]

Tim Curry has asked me to inform you that he would be honored by the presence of James T. Cat in his humble (if somewhat morbid) skull avatar!

You got it!

I'll work on it later this weekend.

[ghost of miles]

How about something akin to the U.S. "terror alert" system, to be activated whenever posters w/x amount of warnings are on the board?

Glad to see ya around, Jazz.

Edited November 28, 2003 by ghost of miles

[Joe G]

"Free For All" lurked for literally a few years (at least two years, that I know of), before I goaded him into joining in.

And I, for one, am very grateful that you did get Free For All on here. He's become one of my favorite contributers. Smart, hip, and the guy cracks me up!

I'm with these others, Jazz. You went on my A-list as soon as you joined in on the guitar thread. See you around...

[A Lark Ascending]

Are you going to reinstate those already thrown out? If this is the way it was back when Greg got into it with Dan, he would most likely still be here.

One more note concerning Wingy. Please please please PLEASE... unless it's directly aimed at you and is threatening to you or your family... ignore him if you know you don't like him. I'll say it yet again. Version 2.0 of this software will be out this coming January with full ignore implementation. Until then, please censor yourself. Don't read his posts, don't respond to them if you do. If you think they're above and beyond, let me know.

I'm trying to work this out fairly with all involved. I admit I like Danny. I know people like him in real life from being a musician. I'm somewhat used to that stuff. I realize some people are not used to it and don't want to be. That's fine. But let's deal with it like adults. Tell me. Email me. PM me. I won't complain about it like the other day, I promise!

Ideas, opinions, criticism, comments... fire away.

For 90% of what D'Imperio posts I agree. The prattle, the grandstanding, the irritating but essentially harmless childish abuse (and in my case, I'm afraid, even the knowledgeable part about jazz - I can't do the moral compartmentalisation that comes easy to some). Ignore is the answer. As was done for the many, many months that he lived at AAJ (a fact that has been overlooked in all the crocodile tears about his banishment from there).

But when the line into homophobia is crossed then any poster deserves a verbal battering from everybody here. And when it is personally directed at other board members then speaking out becomes an imperative. Not so much to crush the offender but to speak out in support of the person assaulted.

The day will come when a poster will arrive who will spout racist abuse. I don't believe for a minute anyone here will excuse him or her because of their musical talents. I suspect many will not go into 'ignore' mode but stand up and express their disapproval. I certainly hope so.

The same standards that apply to racial abuse must apply to homophobic abuse. Unless, of course, the latter is considered harmless by comparison. If that is the policy of the board then it needs to be made clear.

I'm not black. I'm not gay. But I'm a human being in a liberal democracy and find the 'humorous' use of racial or homophobic comments exceptionally offensive. You don't need a lecture from me on 20th C history to know where 'turning a blind eye' to this sort of bigotry leads. Most of us have never had to risk our lives to defend common decency against extreme bigotry as our fathers and grandfathers did; the least we can do is choke it off the moment it rears its ugly head in even the silly form it has taken here.

This board has been a very unpleasant place over the last few days; not just because of D'Imperio's posts but because of the willingness of many to welcome him aboard in spite of his flagrant insults.

There are posts on this board that have appeared from this one man - locked or otherwise - which I find personally insulting; others which attack other board members that I feel cross well over the boundaries. They should be removed. Yes, the administrators have the right to decide what is and what is not decent. I suggest they think again about this case.

The members of this board are prone to group hugs where we all tell one another how wonderful we are. This week that all looks very, very hollow.

So, to conclude:

1. I am not recommending banning anyone - I am recommending taking the necessary action to ensure all members do not stray into blatant bigotry. However hard the board administrators work that is not a role that can be abrogated.

2. As long as the homophobic comments made so far are capable of reappearing on the board that issue has not been addressed. I am requesting that all such comments be removed.

3. If warning lights help then that's great. But it does not allow us to thereby wash our hands of standing up to bigotry.

4. I am all in favour of readmitting previously banned members. If they can work within the boundaries of decent behaviour they should have a place.

5. I will take B-3ers advice and (once again) ignore the posts I find generally irritating - but I will continue to speak out against those that cross the line.

Organissimo has gone relatively quiet compared with the last few days. Great. But I for one cannot simply press a mental ignore button and pretend it didn't happen.

I remain deeply saddened by the way Mr. D'Imperio's abusive entry onto this board was greeted in some quarters. A great deal of trust and goodwill has been shaken.

Apologies for breaking the 'feelgood' nature of this thread but I am not convinced that the issues of the last week have yet been resolved. My previous experience of both the administrators and members of this board lead me to hope that ultimately the right thing will be done.

[Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED)]

For CHRISSAKES get over it STAPLETON.

THE JAZZMOBILE THREAD GOT OVER 4000 VIEWS IN 3 DAYS.

That's gotta be a record.

The 4 posters who have temporarily gone mute (YOU OBVIOUSLY NOT BEING ONE OF THEM) are more than compensated for by the 12 to 15 new members who signed up since Wingy hit the scene.

Let go, STAPES!! You're preachin' to the choir.

WHERE DEEP GOES..SO GOES THE FLOW...DIG??

WING

[Parkertown]

Thanks Bev! Nailed it again.

I know it's apples to oranges, but I sure like the way the moderators handle things over at the Steve Hoffman forum. They have about a dozen of them and things are dealt with swiftly. I wonder if appointing a few more moderators here would help B3'er and the other Fists to keep things smooth sailing.

Their rules are easy for someone like myself to follow; probably wouldn't be easy for others to follow. Coincidentally, I just re-read them this morning, before finding this thread.

Forum rules at SteveHoffman.tv

Just a humble suggestion.

[Use3D]

THE JAZZMOBILE THREAD GOT OVER 4000 VIEWS IN 3 DAYS.

Had I been around it would've been closed instantly for excessive stupidity. Sure the thread had a few views but it was still a flame. That doesn't help you.

[Rooster_Ties]

For CHRISSAKES get over it STAPLETON.

THE JAZZMOBILE THREAD GOT OVER 4000 VIEWS IN 3 DAYS.

That's gotta be a record.

The 4 posters who have temporarily gone mute (YOU OBVIOUSLY NOT BEING ONE OF THEM) are more than compensated for by the 12 to 15 new members who signed up since Wingy hit the scene.

Let go, STAPES!! You're preachin' to the choir.

WHERE DEEP GOES..SO GOES THE FLOW...DIG??

WING

What tripe.

[J.A.W.]

Excellent post Bev, you said it all.

[Jazz]

Okay, I'm gonna try to Illuminate here so bear with me.

1. I have seen no evidence of "homophobic abuse". I have not seen this person personally attack a homosexual or make threats. He has definitely made comments that could offend a homosexual, but I'm not sure if that in itself constitutes abuse. He's entitled to his opinion don't you think? Aren't bigots, racists, and whatall still entitled to their opinion and the expression thereof? What they aren't entitled to do is to trample on the civil rights and liberties of another human being. I'm by no means a legal expert, so I'll leave it up to everyone else to think about what that means.

2. This guy's nothing, people. He's just another fella that likes to imagine that he's pulling everyone's strings. I mean, he may be nice in "real life", and maybe he is this prolific drummer - I don't really know, I've never met him. I've only met his online persona which pursuades me to believe that I don't really care about any of his opinions or remarks. Why should I? I only invest that much energy into people I trust and it takes me years to get to know someone to where I feel I trust them. I'm Mexican, so what would I do if he remarked that I eat beans y tacos, you stupid beaner? Would I get offended? Pssh! Anyone who does that gets immediately dismissed in my mind. And do I take this attitude into "real life"? Sure! If someone said that to me I'd laugh right in their face, because of their stupidity. I've done it. You know what they do? Nothing, hehe. So that's what I do with Mr. Wingy. I laugh at him. Not with him, at him, because he thinks he's this big string-puller when he's just another of a million obnoxious internet guys.

Long story short (too late!), continue about your business. So many of you guys are very friendly and welcoming! I'd rather spend time getting to know those kinds of people than talking about people I dislike.

Hoping this made a lick of sense,

Jazzypoo

[Out2Lunch]

.

Long story short (too late!), continue about your business. So many of you guys are very friendly and welcoming! I'd rather spend time getting to know those kinds of people than talking about people I dislike.

Hoping this made a lick of sense,

Jazzypoo

Your comments are right on the mark!

[Joe G]

THE JAZZMOBILE THREAD GOT OVER 4000 VIEWS IN 3 DAYS.

That's gotta be a record.

Not even close:

Could this be the fate of the new BNBB? Holy smokes

(Pages 1 2 3 ...25 )

Miscellaneous Music

Ed Swinnich

368 replies 8299 views

Jul 25 2003, 12:36 AM

Last Post by: Rooster_Ties

[A Lark Ascending]

I have seen no evidence of "homophobic abuse". I have not seen this person personally attack a homosexual or make threats. He has definitely made comments that could offend a homosexual, but I'm not sure if that in itself constitutes abuse.

He's entitled to his opinion don't you think? Aren't bigots, racists, and whatall still entitled to their opinion and the expression thereof? What they aren't entitled to do is to trample on the civil rights and liberties of another human being. I'm by no means a legal expert, so I'll leave it up to everyone else to think about what that means.

This guy's nothing, people. He's just another fella that likes to imagine that he's pulling everyone's strings.

1. Well, I'm in an impossible position there. If I refer to a specific reference then I'm just giving it more publicity; if not I fail to make my case. You don't have to look hard.

2. Yes, I've no doubt they said that in Munich in 1923. And would you defend those arrested for racial abuse at football matches? After all, 'they're entitled to their opinions.' Yes, he's entitled to his opinion. But it's an opinion that flies in the face of the way in which posters have behaved towards one another most of this time on this board. It is for him to fit in, not the existing board members to adapt to his intolerance.

3. As I said above I agree entirely for 90% of what he writes. But when he relentlessly goes after one long term member of this board (who has consequently taken a 'rest') then I will not play Pilate.