Poor albums by good artists

[danasgoodstuff]

"albums that are too greasy", sorry does not compute...grease cold, or otherwise wrong place/time I get.

I kinda like "Look of Love" and its companion, "Always Something There". But then I bought one of them in Drumheller, AL one of the first times Bren' went to S'toon with me. Still not as much as I like "Rough 'n Tumble" or "Jubilee Shout", but to me it's no nevermind whether Stan's playing Gershwin, Bacharach or Jobim, to name 3 writers he did good stuffs with.

My feeling is that gthe Mingus is listenable but not much more and the abovementioned Monk really doesn't work.

Edited October 30, 2009 by danasgoodstuff

[blajay]

I love Al and Zoot, but find their Hoagy Carmichael album limp. Fortunately, in its present incarnation on Lonehill it's paired with Either Way, which is a gas. (I have no objection to the singing of Cecil "Kid Haffey" Collier, by the way.)

After Miles Ahead, Porgy and Bess and Sketches of Spain, it's generally recognized that Miles and Gil produced a clunker in Quiet Nights.

Quiet Nights should not have been released at the time in the form it was. It was not finished, maybe it was never intended to be finished, but that was not the album that Miles and Gil wanted us to hear. In my opinion if it's a clunker, it is a clunker produced by Teo Macerio, not Miles and Gil.

And despite that I like it. It has brilliant moments!

Just like Monk's Blues (above). Seems to be a pattern.

[DMP]

Some of those Creed Taylor '60's "Verve" dates are pretty weak... The 2 Wynton Kelly's hve been mentioned, but there are lots more - Donald Byrd's "Up," Kai Winding's "More," a couple of the over-orchestrated Cal Tjaders. And some of those big band Jimmy Smith's are so-so - an album like "Any Number Can Win" has its share of dreck mixed in with the good stuff.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wouldn't count Donald Byrd's "Up" - Byrd's overall oeuvre is so extremely up and down that there's hardly a normal.

MG

[mikeweil]

Hampton Hawes - Movie musicals - Vault

I actually like that - he does some things nobody else did with these tunes, and I like Billy Byers's string arrangements, although they are a bit loud in the mix.

Thelonious Monk - Monk's Blues

Not poor - if they'd have succeeded in having Monk make the Beatles tunes album, that would have been poor - or freakin' cool ... nah, forget about it. Herbie Hancock would have been a nice pianist for that album.

The arranger was a bad choice, but so was the producer. Macero's tunes on this album are what is really poor.

Thelonious Monk - Five By Monk By Five

That's the first album that made me learn Monk tunes, and still one of my favourites. Kinda Monk's take on Hard Bop. Thad Jones is great here! Who's Arthur Taylor?

An album I find poor (hard to remember others, since I sold them all):

Weather Report - Mr. Gone (Columbia)

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hampton Hawes - Movie musicals - Vault

I actually like that - he does some things nobody else did with these tunes, and I like Billy Byers's string arrangements, although they are a bit loud in the mix.

He certainly does some tunes few if any other jazz musicians have touched - "Where is love", "When I'm not near the girl I love", The music that makes me dance", "How are things in Glocca Morra" and "As long as she needs me". But seems to me there's a reason for that.

MG

[Free For All]

"How are things in Glocca Morra"

Sonny Rollins recorded a nice rendition of that one.

And Shirley Horn did a nice job with "The Music That Makes Me Dance".

He certainly does some tunes few if any other jazz musicians have touched - "Where is love", "When I'm not near the girl I love", The music that makes me dance", "How are things in Glocca Morra" and "As long as she needs me". But seems to me there's a reason for that.

I don't think any of those are bad tunes. Just depends on what is done with them.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Free For All

[JETman]

"albums that are too greasy", sorry does not compute...grease cold, or otherwise wrong place/time I get.

Why doesn't it compute? I just don't dig "greasy" music. Not my thing.

After years of digging Jimmy Smith, for instance, I realized that most of it sounded like roller-skating music to me.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

"albums that are too greasy", sorry does not compute...grease cold, or otherwise wrong place/time I get.

Why doesn't it compute? I just don't dig "greasy" music. Not my thing.

After years of digging Jimmy Smith, for instance, I realized that most of it sounded like roller-skating music to me.

Quite right. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

But we're looking for exceptions within a musician's career, not whole genres to dis.

MG

[Dave James]

After years of digging Jimmy Smith, for instance, I realized that most of it sounded like roller-skating music to me.

Not sure I can see Jimmy Smith behind the wheel of a three tiered Wurlitzer announcing that not enough skaters came on the floor for the Grand March, so the next number will all skate in reverse. Nonetheless, even though I think I may own every Blue Note he ever did, he's not someone I listen to often. He has a tendency to go over the top. If I had to pick a favorite, I guess it would be Crazy Baby.

Oh yeah. If anyone's keeping score at home, count me among the fans of Five By Five By Monk. That's how I cut my teeth on Mr. T.

Up over and out.

[Neal Pomea]

I really think the world of Tommy Flanagan, but I don't think his album Thelonica does it. Hope nobody tears me a new one over this. I much prefer other albums like Let's (his tribute to Thad Jones) and Beyond the Bluebird (with Kenny Burrell).

[blajay]

I really think the world of Tommy Flanagan, but I don't think his album Thelonica does it. Hope nobody tears me a new one over this. I much prefer other albums like Let's (his tribute to Thad Jones) and Beyond the Bluebird (with Kenny Burrell).

I definitely won't tear you a new one, but I really love that album. Flanagan's performance of the tune "Light Blue" just hits me deep, in particular. Especially during hard times I've had. Thanks to Kelley's book, now I know why: it was written by Monk when he was struggling with depression after hospitalization.

[AndrewHill]

I'm sure we're going to find defenders of our choices and disbelievers.

Here's one:

Just doesn't seem like Mingus to me. I've tried to like it.

Another:

Oh how I wish I could like this one.

Yup, couldn't sell Monk's Blue's fast enough. Just did not do a damn thing for me.

[Neal Pomea]

Flanagan's performance of the tune "Light Blue" just hits me deep, in particular.

Will listen again! I cherish Tommy Flanagan and Monk.

Thanks for your remarks. Hope all is well.

[Big Al]

Very interesting thread, MG, and I'll probably come back to it again as more things occur to me.

IMHO 5 By Monk By 5 drags in comparison with the master's other Riverside albums. (The critics of Art Taylor on the board will probably point the finger at him.)

In my youth it was put about that Charlie Parker Plays Cole Porter as a very late album wasn't up to his usual standards, and I guess this is true. But in comparison with other artists, everything by Bird is touched with gold and I bought the CD recently and love it, not just for Bird, but for things like Roy Haynes' drumming, too.

I have always thought that "5 By Monk By 5" was one of his greatest albums. Thad Jones plays great on the album, fitting in with Monk but keeping his unique style. To me, the ensembles are more cohesive, the rhythms more swinging, than on most of Monk's Riversides.

In my opinion, apart from "Brilliant Corners", "5 By Monk By 5" is his best album ever.

My thoughts exactly! :tup :tup

Edited October 31, 2009 by Big Al

[Big Al]

Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East - Cal Tjader

I love practically anything by Cal Tjader, and even these two have one gem each (particularly "Black Orchid"). While there are certainly much worse albums by much lesser artists, it's these two that cause me the most nausea, simply because Cal was capable of so much more. It's on a par with Tony Bennett's SINGS THE HITS OF TODAY (or whatever album that was where he would vomit between takes because he was so disgusted with the recording situation).

[GA Russell]

Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East - Cal Tjader

When I reached the bottom of page 2 of this thread, I decided that I would post: I'm surprised that Al hasn't chimed in yet mentioning Cal Tjader's Several Shades of Jade!

Bill, count me in as another who likes 5xMonkx5. It was my second Monk album, and perhaps I like it for sentimental reasons, but I like it.

As I have stated before, I think all of Monk's Columbia albums are worse than those on the other labels. So I guess that fits the original post of this thread. If there is a Columbia album which anyone thinks is better than a specific non-Columbia album, I'd like someone to suggest them both.

I hold Groove Holmes' first three albums for Prestige in the highest regard, but he made one for Prestige that I think is terrible called Spicy.

Edited November 2, 2009 by GA Russell

[Free For All]

Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East - Cal Tjader

While I agree this isn't a great Tjader side, it's one I remember my dad playing when I was very young, and one that has sentimental value for me.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I hold Groove Homes' first three albums for Prestige in the highest regard, but he made one for Prestige that I think is terrible called Spicy.

Yes, that's pretty poor. Not as bad as "I'm in the mood for love" on Flying Dutchman. I haven't heard "The $6,000,000 man", also on Flying Dutchman, but that one doesn't bode well.

MG

[Teasing the Korean]

"Several Shades of Jade" and "Breeze from the East" are LIGHT YEARS apart from each other, and you may need to clean the wax out of your ears if they are the same album to you.

SSOJ features arrangements by THEE GREAT LALO SCHIFRIN and is easily one of the ten best albums CT ever did.

BBTE, on the other hand, is a lightweight pop affair with substandard arrangements, although it does have a nice version of "Black Orchid."

[Ken Dryden]

There are many obvious candidates, like:

Bud Shank: A Spoonful of Jazz (music of the Lovin' Spoonful)

Joe Pass: The Stones Jazz (Rolling Stones' songs, arranged by Bob Florence)

I'm sure neither artist was interested in the material, just a paycheck during a very difficult period in their careers.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Benny Golson's recent album "That's funky" (Arkadia Jazz) looks as if it's going to be great - Nat Adderley, Monty Alexander, Ray Drummond, Smitty Smith. What could be bad about it?

Just almost everything. These geezers don't have to make a "funky" album 'cos everything they play is funky. So this ain't.

MG

[BeBop]

The Basie James Bond thing doesn't work for me. And Baker's "Blood Chet and Tears" isn't false advertising: copious tears. Gotta agree with the Blakey "Buttercorn Lady". Pres' late period can be (ahem) inconsistent.

Edited November 1, 2009 by BeBop

[king ubu]

I love the Basie/Bond one!

I kind of have to agree with MG about the Golson on Arkadia, but I like the cheesy one with the commercials music and all (on one title Golson even plays a varitone, I think). It's good fun to my ears!

[BeBop]

I love the Basie/Bond one!

I kind of have to agree with MG about the Golson on Arkadia, but I like the cheesy one with the commercials music and all (on one title Golson even plays a varitone, I think). It's good fun to my ears!

It may be as much me and Bond as the Basie part. Having never seen any Bond films, it's just a bunch of soundtrack-y music.

Basie and the Beatles works better for me.