THE JAZZMOBILE WET DREAM

[connoisseur series500]

How 'bout a (Ron & Juan) package deal?  B)

I think I have their CD.

"Ron and Juan's Greatest Hits"

Yeah, the melody plays over and over and over again.

[catesta]

Man, we could have a field day trying to come up with the track titles for Vol. 2 of that cd!

How about the liner notes?

[neveronfriday]

Yes, let's hear it for Free Speech.

And the Second Amendment, while we're at it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[connoisseur series500]

Hey deuce: Stuff it!!

Don't you know what these smilies represent??

[neveronfriday]

No, I was referring to statements such as this one:

That said, everyone has a clean slate when they come here. If everybody just calms down and acts like reasonable adults, we can make this work, all right? I'm not implying anyone has been acting like a kid, but let's just let bygones be bygones and chill. Cool?

OK, let me jog out onto the open field so it's easier for all the flak to reach me.

Where do I start? I spend quite a bit of time on various message boards - not because I don't have anything better to do and am an online addict far removed from everyday life (as has been suggested by at least one post in this thread in regard to all of us who care about the issue discussed here), but because I'm interested in various things I'd like more information about and because I have profitted from that information in my job. Besides that, like many people on this board, I have to be/am online a lot and can use the distraction once in a while.

Now, invariably the same thing happens (and there is a definite pattern here). If one frequents various forums which spend time discussing the same topic, there is always fluctuation between the boards: people who are dissatisfied with one, feel mistreated in one way or another or were simply kicked out for some reason switch over to the other board. The whole thing is usually accompanied by a bunch of flame wars (Another good example are two boards concentrating on electronic percussion, vdrums.com and ddrums.com. It happened there many times).

As far as I have read (I'm not a veteran of the Blue Note Forum), people at this forum here have had their experience with this sort of thing.

Please read the following lines as an attempt to discuss the basic problem and not as an attack on anyone in particular:

What never seizes to amaze me is this: Although many people have known what has been going on elsewhere, have read irritating and downright insulting threads, have maybe even participated in one or two of the threads themselves to try to help settle things a bit, total amnesia strikes the community if one ousted member switches sides.

Lots of buddy-backslapping ensues, reinforcement strategies abound ("you're not really THAT bad; everyone should have a second chance; what about free speech; etc. ...") and the central issue is avoided.

Instead of reprimanding someone who has misbehaved repeatedly, so much in fact that after quite a bit of discussion he was kicked off a board which is not exactly known for its restrictive policy, the new member is welcomed with hugs & kisses, and a discussion on free speech is started. I couldn't help being reminded of the (by now) tiresome debate if the right to bear arms is an individual or collective right ... a debate which usually breaks out after some kid got its head blown off by his/her father who thought it was a crook sneaking into the house after hours. "Who cares about the kid, let's talk about the underlying principles here." Another way of saying that is simply reminding someone of the existing rules and saying that as long as those aren't broken, there isn't any problem. I would call that turning a blind eye.

What kind of meassage does this put out there? That it's alright to trash the house as long as you don't trash OUR room? That it's alright to insult people on other boards as long as it isn't done here?

In my eyes that's opening the flood gates which can and often will cause quite a bit of damage. Many of us have seen it on other boards.

Worst of all, and this is also a constant, suddenly it's the people who care about the issue and do warn that things might go amiss (and give some solid evidence), who are suddenly the culprits, the idiots and troublemakers.

Of course, if I don't like what's going on, I can always leave.

Yes, but that's the easy way out.

Now, please accept my sincere apologies if I'm way out of line here (I do love this board and hate flame wars ... of which I might be starting one here), but I would not be surprised if there are other people on here who have similar feelings.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they said so.

OK people, open fire.

Cheers.

[Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED)]

Now, please accept my sincere apologies if I'm way out of line here (I do love this board and hate flame wars ... of which I might be starting one here), but I would not be surprised if there are other people on here who have similar feelings.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they said so.

OK people, open fire.

Cheers.

Apologies accepted but man, if you gasbag out verbiage the way you type...

....you are definitely immune to one disease.....

......LOCKJAW!!

You can't possibly be married.

WINGY

[Gary]

DEUS 62

WELL SAID

[RonF]

How 'bout a (Ron & Juan) package deal?  B)

I think I have their CD.

"Ron and Juan's Greatest Hits"

Why don't you two turkeys go stuff one in your ears?

[A Lark Ascending]

Amazing how history gets distorted by selective reporting. My interpretation of the AAJ situation is similar to PDs.

To correct another error. At no point did I request Mr D'Imperio's banning from AAJ. I did openly challenge him on the board when he was in full flight at the weekend. I did not ask for a ban. Mike contacted me on Sunday morning saying he was considering banning him and one other member and asking my opinion. I suggested they be warned i.e. asked to tone down their behaviour and if they refused then ban them. A couple of hours later Mr D'Imperio had been banned, the other person had not. This was clearly a result of Mike consulting a number of members. I fully support what Mike did and made that quite clear at AAJ. It was his board and the board was suffering as a result. It was at that point that I put forward the request for sympathetic Organissimo members to help out over there.

Well, Mr D'Imperio has arrived here, firing off personal insults from the off. Now let us not mythologise this man. I am clueless about his real personality - Chris A. tells us he is likeable in real life and am quite willing to believe that.

In his online persona we have something else.

I am fully aware that what we have is a wind-up merchant. He says things to provoke. But be very clear. This is what will happen:

a) He will hurl abuse at a few members to get them riled.

b.) He will also extend the hand of camaraderie to a few others. Some will go along hoping to keep him calm; some sadly, will join in with him hoping to bask in his notoriety.

c) The outcome will be board members turning on one another in quarrels over whether he should stay or go.

d) Mr D'Imperio will dance around all of this enjoying the mayhem he has caused.

Should he be banned? I leave that to the board managers. I find his presence on the board extremely ugly but it is not for me to say.

But don't think he will be tamed. If past experience is anything to go by the current manic phase will be followed by a calm period followed by another eruption when someone else unwittingly tweaks his cage.

I'm not going to be intimidated by Mr. D'Imperio. I state categorically that he is very bad news for this board. Those who defend him are being extremely naive.

Having said that I see no point in continuing any exchange with him...when it comes to being unpleasant I defer to him totally. I also see no point in continuing in any debate over the wisdom of banning or not banning him. Time will tell on that one.

As always, I leave the last word to...

Edited November 26, 2003 by Bev Stapleton

[Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED)]

Now there's a MAN (I guess he's a man..can't prove it by that name) of conviction. Damn, I wonder if he's a probation officer in real life.

Mike, at AAJ, E mailed DEEP and told him to take a break and that he would be invited back. I believe (but don't quote me because I was drinking) that MIKE coined the phrase "NO NO NANETTE SET" when referring to his WHINERS, of which it is now apparent, Stapleton was one.

The nice thing about this board is that it is run by musicians. They know the ropes.

They've been on the scene, walked the walk and talked the talk.

I suggest that the PULERS (look it up, Stapes) absquatulate and drive a herd of PULERS to DODGE CITY (aka ALLABOUTGIZZ).

Thank you for listening.

WINGY

[The Red Menace]

Let's talk to the Red Menace.

I suppose there are still some facilities available in Kolyma for two staunch believers of the Party?

How you warm the cockles of this old commissar's heart with such talk, my friend!!! I hasten to add however that these Ron and Juan characters of which you speak do not seem in need of the re-education which you propose. Capitalist running dogs, on the other hand, veritably abound on this internet bulletin board!!! Clearly there is much rounding up to be done, perhaps beginning with this Wingy comrade who keeps running amok. In the space of 24 hours he has personally insulted a number of longstanding members using racial caricatures and colorful language like "stupid motherfucker." Zounds!!! Even my young grandson does not swear so badly when he imitates this hiphop din or chastises me for not giving him more money. What fun my old friends in the NKVD would have had with this one!!!

But what is this "Report Post" function??? A cunning and intriguing device, how did I fail to overlook it for so long??? Ingenious!!! Upon gazing at it for very long I begin to hyperventilate. It is more exciting than that Paris Hilton video!!!

[RonF]

In his online persona we have something else.

I am fully aware that what we have is a wind-up merchant. He says things to provoke. But be very clear. This is what will happen:

a) He will hurl abuse at a few members to get them riled.

b.) He will also extend the hand of camaraderie to a few others. Some will go along hoping to keep him calm; some sadly, will join in with him hoping to bask in his notoriety.

c) The outcome will be board members turning on one another in quarrels over whether he should stay or go.

d) Mr D'Imperio will dance around all of this enjoying the mayhem he has caused.

Should he be banned? I leave that to the board managers. I find his presence on the board extremely ugly but it is not for me to say.

But don't think he will be tamed. If past experience is anything to go by the current manic phase will be followed by a calm period followed by another eruption when someone else unwittingly tweaks his cage.

I'm not going to be intimidated by Mr. D'Imperio. I state categorically that he is very bad news for this board. Those who defend him are being extremely naive.

Having said that I see no point in continuing any exchange with him...when it comes to being unpleasant I defer to him totally. I also see no point in continuing in any debate over the wisdom of banning or not banning him. Time will tell on that one.

As always, I leave the last word to...

Over the years, and I mean several years, I don't think I've ever seen this subject articulated more perfectly.

Thanks for the post Bev. Nailed it.

[Harold_Z]

Nobody is forcing ANYBODY to read or respond to ANYTHING.

If you don't dig it...just lay out 'til the chorus is over.

[Jim Alfredson]

Well I've been in the internet jazz board scene since 1995 and the old JCS (Jazz Central Station). Who remembers that place? I joined the BNBB in 1997. So it's been 8 years of this stuff. I first "met" Deep at JCS and then over at the BNBB and now here.

My point? None really, except that I've seen what's going on here, albeit from a different perspective (that of the main administrator) and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Jim Alfredson]

Nobody is forcing ANYBODY to read or respond to ANYTHING.

If you don't dig it...just lay out 'til the chorus is over.

And as I've posted before, the all-important IGNORE feature will be fully implemented in the next version of this software which is supposed to be released come the New Year. So if you can put up with those you don't like for about a month and a half, you can then ignore to your heart's content.

If only it worked in the real world with in-laws!

[Joe G]

...or annoying patrons at gigs!

[Jim Alfredson]

Now you're talking!

[BERIGAN]

This thread is seeing more action than Free Paris Hilton Mpeg site!

She has been locked up???? That is just not right!!!!

P.S. I have several more pages to peruse, so if someone else has already made this joke, please excuse me!

[doubleM]

Yeah, she's been locked up, but I don't think they were real cuffs. No, I haven't seen the video. Can't afford it.

[BERIGAN]

Yeah, she's been locked up, but I don't think they were real cuffs. No, I haven't seen the video. Can't afford it.

as rich as she is, you would think that she could afford to get a decent camcorder! She and the beau look like they were in front of a camera shooting footage in Iraq at night....in other words, it ain't worth the effort...I did see it for free, somewheres

[Free For All]

The Paris Hilton...........after you check in, you better get checked out...........

OR......

The Paris Hilton...........you're gettin' checked out while you check in.............

[Gary]

Oh so all this is supposed to be FUNNY !!!!!!!!!!!

But out in front of the Jazzmobile, attired in Top Hat, White Gloves, White Spats,

made up in BLACK FACE, HIGH STEPPING AND EATING A WATERMELON were

CHRISTIERN & STAPLETON...........yelling to the spectators "HERE COME DE JAZZMOBILE"

YOU, P.D., ARE ONE STUPID MOTHERFUCKER

the humour must have got lost mid atlantic somewhere .

How long has the guy been posting here 3 days??? & we are getting

I suggest that the PULERS (look it up, Stapes) absquatulate and drive a herd of PULERS to DODGE CITY (aka ALLABOUTGIZZ).

Nice portrait of what Allaboutgizz (you're flagship) is heading for with prudes like you at THE HELM!!

Take my advise...either IGNORE or ABANDON SITE

All thats seems to be happening is one board having turmoil & its immediately spilt over here once hes been banned.

And it pains me to say it of my fellow board members but i think if he wasnt a respected musician with lots of musician friends / colleagues i dont think it would be tolerated , & I'm surprised there only seems to be three or four people suggesting that hes out of order.

But hey its not MY board so its not up to me.

Yes i will be using the IGNORE button when it comes in - do i resent that i have to after all this time ? YES.

will the whole issue be resolved in the same way as All About Jazz ? i think it will.

Am i playing into a trolls hands ? probably.

Pheew - just needed to get that off my chest - sorry if i offended any of the regular members.

Now where did i put those chill pills.

Edited November 27, 2003 by Gary

[Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED)]

But out in front of the Jazzmobile, attired in Top Hat, White Gloves, White Spats,

made up in BLACK FACE, HIGH STEPPING AND EATING A WATERMELON were

CHRISTIERN & STAPLETON...........yelling to the spectators "HERE COME DE JAZZMOBILE"

Now where did i put those chill pills.

Once you ingest those "chill pills" you may wanna work on mastering the safety cap on your Flintstones Vitamin bottle. Once THAT is achieved I suggest you start working on your keyboard SHIFT KEY.

Just a thought.....thanks for listening.

WINGY

p.s. That Jazzmobile scenerio is some of my *A* SHIT. Thanks for quoting it.

I'm really proud of that one. I'd love to see it acted out for TV by the characters described. Maybe "LAW & ORDER".

[Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED)]

I'm not going to be intimidated by Mr. D'Imperio. I state categorically that he is very bad news for this board. Those who defend him are being extremely naive.

Stapes, (PAL O' MINE),

You have no reason to be intimidated by DEEP. He has no quarrel with you.

In fact just the other day he thought that someone over at the NO NO NANETTE site should suggest to you that:

In between taking the grandchildren to little league games, emptying the cat litter, boning up on your pinochle, razor honing your game of darts, smoking your pipe, while listening to British Free Jazz by Joe Harriott as you lounge in your den surrounded by your father's old H.C.A. (Hot Club of America) 78's tucked away neatly on the shelves in green stock, as you wait for the MUNDANES to drop by for dinner......you should inter yourself in that TOMB OF THOUGHT called ALLABOUTGIZZ......and leave the real deal to the good folks at ORGANISSIMO.

Thank You for listening.

WINGY

[Christiern]

Gary's post.