Son-of-a-Weizen Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Did this book ever appear in hardcover? Can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Just consulted a friend who's a military historian specialising in the Great War. He doesn't know positively but thinks it most unlikely that it didn't come out in hardback. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 The book is a potted for paperback bit of Ferguson's "The Pity of War," which was published in hardback. Bookmarked it once, though the link doesn't work anymore on the 'Net, but conservative historian Paul W. Schroeder -- "The Transformation of European Politics, 1763-1848_ -- (Oxford) wrote what I recall as a coolly devastating critique of Ferguson's fast-and-loose "contrafactual" approach in "The Pity of War." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 oh, BIBLIOPHILES. I thought you said necrophiles. never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Ferguson is a bit notorious for his right of centre viewpoint. In recent years he has written about (and done TV programmes on) how the British Empire was actually a jolly good thing. I'm fully expecting him to be put in charge of the history curriculum in British schools when the Tories win the election next year! Although, if by some fluke, Labour hang on, there will be no history curriculum outside of private education! If you want a very convincing revisionist view of World War I I'd recommend this one: Does a good job at demonstrating how the popular 'lions led by donkeys' image of World War I was actually quite a late construction, only really becoming standard in the 1960s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Ferguson is a bit notorious for his right of centre viewpoint. In recent years he has written about (and done TV programmes on) how the British Empire was actually a jolly good thing. If he's right of centre here, then I guess Weizen regards him as another damn leftie! Of course, the British and French Empires in Africa were a mixed curse. Travel in Senegambia and you'll find the English taught the Gambians to cook (not the Welsh - they don't cook cawl or laverbread out there ) while the French taught the Senegalese. The same traditional dishes are completely different. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Just consulted a friend who's a military historian specialising in the Great War. He doesn't know positively but thinks it most unlikely that it didn't come out in hardback. MG Thanks for checking w/him, MG! The book is a potted for paperback bit of Ferguson's "The Pity of War," which was published in hardback. Ahh, interesting....did not realize that. Have only perused 'Empire' and 'War of the World.' Will have to check out the Schroeder critique as well. This blurb from an older Washington Post review: "Through a careful marshalling of economic and social evidence, along with charts, graphs and various forms of statistical aids, Ferguson attempts to show that because Germany (rightly) feared French and Russian militarism, it understandably made a preemptive strike against France in August 1914. (This idea is contrary to every considered opinion about the origin of World War I, which holds that it was German militarism that started the war.)" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style...ofwar990704.htm ....my assumption is that Schroeder also takes issue with Ferguson on this score? (Note: not sure if Patsilelis is 100% accurate here as -- if I remember correctly -- in either 'The Decline of Bismarck's European Order' (Princeton) or 'The Fateful Alliance' (Princeton), George Kennan pretty much advanced the same line of thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 If you want a very convincing revisionist view of World War I I'd recommend this one: Sounds like a good suggestion. If he's right of centre here, then I guess Weizen regards him as another damn leftie! Now, now...let's not ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I've had John Keegan's WWI book sitting on my shelf for several years but still haven't gotten around to reading it. How is it? Though it might be a bit too generalist for this well-read crowd! If you want a very convincing revisionist view of World War I I'd recommend this one: Sounds like a good suggestion. If he's right of centre here, then I guess Weizen regards him as another damn leftie! Now, now...let's not ..... Weizen is actually slightly to the left of wherever the fine brews are stashed...gliding happily to the right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I haven't read anything by Keegan for a long time - but he's very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Pomea Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Don't think this came out in hardback. WorldCat shows 18 copies in libraries worldwide, and they are paperback. Perhaps the whole Penguin series this belongs to is paperback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Paul Schroeder's two essays on this topic, "World War I as a Galloping Gertie" and "Embedded Contrafactuals and World War I as an Unavoidable War," can be found in the book "Systems, Stability, and Statecraft: Essays on the International History of Modern Europe" http://www.amazon.com/Systems-Stability-St...4991&sr=1-1 Schroeder's quarrel with Ferguson is not on the grounds that German aggression was the primary cause of the war (this Ferguson denies). Rather, Schroeder feels that a key precipitating factor was Britain's' “encirclement" policy directed at Austria-Hungary, which led Germany to launch what it felt was a preventative war in the face of the impending break-up of the Austro-Hugarian state, Germany's ally. Schroeder's quarrel is with Ferguson's use of so-called contrafactual reasoning to demonstrate that World War I was readily avoidable. As the title of Schroder's "Galloping Gertie" essay suggests -- "Galloping Gertie" being the Tacoma, Wash. suspension bride that collapsed in 1941 when winds caused a fluttering effect in the span, and the amplitude of the motion produced by the fluttering increased beyond the strength of the suspender cables -- Schroeder believes that the forces that led to the outbreak of World War I were so structurally interdependent that no responsible historian could propose a plausible scenario in which what actually did occur did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Ferguson is a bit notorious for his right of centre viewpoint. In recent years he has written about (and done TV programmes on) how the British Empire was actually a jolly good thing. Well, at the very least Niall Ferguson is a jazz fan, so that excuses a multitude of sins! This audio essay will be up for another 4 days or so at BBC 3: Historian Niall Ferguson recalls with fondness his days as the double-bass player in a jazz quartet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n6vks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 No sleep,thats why I deleted it...good grief...thought I found it, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) ok...after thinking I had found it, I did find this info Weizy....in case you didn't know this... One of Penguin's bestselling non-fiction authors, Niall Ferguson has been hailed as the most brilliant historian of his generation for his fresh, provocative and controversial approach to subjects ranging from money to empires. 1914: Why the World Went to War has been specially adapted from Ferguson's bestselling The Pity of War (1998). It is a radical reassessment of how the world hurtled into catastrophe in 1914. http://www.mcleodsbooks.co.nz/books/1914_W...0141022205.html Edited October 19, 2009 by BERIGAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 In case anyone still cares, I found a working link to Paul W. Schroeder's brilliant essay "Embedded Counterfactuals and World War I as an Unavoidable War": http://ir.emu.edu.tr/staff/ekaymak/courses...terfactuals.pdf It's of much broader interest than its title may suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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