Favorite Reed Player with Charles Mingus

[JohnS]

I've gone for Shafi Hadi too. For such an individual player there is so little by him.

Edited November 25, 2003 by JohnS

[Bright Moments]

Another vote for Rahsaan.

We need to start a new thread on him. He's one I listen to obsessively for a while, then put aside. But I keep coming back to him, maybe as much as anyone I listen to.

Rashaan is incredible and IMHO never got the credit that he deserved. I am trying to obtain everything he ever recorded . . and i'm well on my way. If only i had a complete discography to use as a checklist. . . .

i also have his biography "bright moments" which i haven't started yet.

so much to do, so little time!

[brownie]

Shafi Hadi! Wish there were more record appearances by this incredible player. Also wish he and Dolphy would have played together with Mingus. That would have been the perfect Mingus band!

[Guy Berger]

I went with Hadi, and not just because of his great "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" solo.

I believe John Handy played that solo, not Hadi.

Guy

[kh1958]

I really like all of these saxophonists. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that Shafi Hadi has been the highest ranked by so many. As far as I can tell, he only played regularly with Mingus for a year or so (1957). Of course, that was one of Mingus' greatest and most creative years. Perhaps he benefits from that association. I do love his playing on Tiajuana Moods and the Clown/Tonight at Noon. And he's also good on East Coasting and A Modern Jazz Symposium... But I don't really think he is at the same level on alto as Handy or McPherson.

[jazzbo]

yeah, I agree, I think he's better.

[Joe]

I went with Hadi, and not just because of his great "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" solo.

I believe John Handy played that solo, not Hadi.

Guy

Guy -- that's right, it was Handy.

Therefore, I submit into evidence Hadi's solo on "Reincarnation of a Lovebird" from THE CLOWN.

[king ubu]

yeah, I agree, I think he's better.

Yup, to these ears, too!

ubu

[SEK]

I had to go with Shafi Hadi, because I've always been a sucker for those Mingus dates that he's on. I remember how "Nouroog" first affected me; I had to play it over and over again, and Shafi Hadi helped make "Tijuana Moods" a true classic.

All the other specific alternatives had more exposure and left us more moments to treasure.

[kh1958]

That front line of Hadi, Jimmy Knepper and Gene Shaw is truly fantastic.

[king ubu]

I had to go with Shafi Hadi, because I've always been a sucker for those Mingus dates that he's on. I remember how "Nouroog" first affected me; I had to play it over and over again, and Shafi Hadi helped make "Tijuana Moods" a true classic.

All the other specific alternatives had more exposure and left us more moments to treasure.

To all those Hadi fans: the Avenue Jazz reissue of the Bethlehem "Modern Jazz Symposium..." album has some real good bonus tracks: an alternate of Slippers, and Bounce (Mingus), and Gillespie's Woody'n You. Hadi's BAAD on these tracks! Check it out as long as that disc's still around (it's OOP, I think, but it seems to be still around)

ubu

[Larry Kart]

Speaking of Shafi Hadi/Curtis Porter, any ideas about where his highly distinctive style came from, especially those almost literally speech-like patterns of accentuation? The only biographical information on him I know is in Robert Levin's liner notes for "Hank Mobley" (Blue Note 1568), where Hadi/Porter mentions Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray and Benny Golson as inspirations and says that his current favorite tenorman is Charlie Rouse. It's not impossible that what makes Hadi/Porter so distinctive is all his own invention, but my guess is that Hadi/Porter, who spent some time in Detroit, also might have been listening closely to Yusef Lateef.

[shawn·m]

Can’t help but cast my vote for Hadi. I just love his work, but I’m glad this poll is reedman specific. Otherwise I’d have to go with Jimmy Knepper (forgive me, Hadi). Call me crazy, but more an more, I tend to think of Hadi as a link between Parker and Ornette.

[JSngry]

For a long time, I heard Hadi as a soul/R&B/gospel player who through some quirk of fate found humself playing with (and being turned out by) Mingus, a sort of King Curtis w/o the bright tone and the chance to play on Coasters records. For years I thought that this was a guy coming to jazz "from the outside", so to speak. Then I got to finally hear the "Symposium" side, where Hadi plays throughly honest and convincing hard bop, and his contributions to the Mobley BN stuff, where he again does the same.

It's now quite tempting for me to think that Hadi came to Mingus as a totally conventional mid-50s jazzman and "found himself" to a degree far beyond the usual Migus sideman. He definitely found something in Mingus' music that had a fundamental personal resonance. It is tempting to think that Hadi took Mingus' "figurative" (maybe not the best word...) allusions to blues and gospel quite literally, and ended up genuinely looking at the mainstream jazz of his day from the outside. I mean, once you've found a true voice of your own, it's hard to go back to playing the same stuff everybody else is, even if it means speaking less fluently in your own voice than others do in somebody else's. Sometimes when you go your own way, you end up doing it alone...

It's tempting to think that maybe the Mingus experience is what brought about the end of Hadi's public music career, that he got so in touch with himself that it took him away from having any desire to be a jazzman in the generally-defined sense of the day. But not knowing even remotely if that's true, it's a temptation I'll resist.

[JSngry]

more an more, I tend to think of Hadi as a link between Parker and Ornette.

There are several such links, including Ernie Henry,

[king ubu]

Jim, you have the bonus material on the Avenue/Rhino reissue of Symposium?

ubu

[JSngry]

Yep.

[king ubu]

Yep.

You know, I had a similar experience with Hadi's playing on that disc as you did describe so eloquently. I had the a real bad old remaster (from our good friends ZYX in germany), and never liked it, sounded so bad. Then I got the Avenue edition and it blew me away! Actually, Hadi's playing blew me away... On the earlier stuff with Mingus he's got his sound together (as on, say, "Blue Cee" from The Clown), but on this one he's really really good.

ubu

[king ubu]

By the way: nice that Mariano got two votes

I love him, and love his work on Black Saint, yet I'd somehow never really consider him a Mingus sideman.

ubu

[JSngry]

The latest Mariano on some Enja subsidy is KILLER.

[king ubu]

The latest Mariano on some Enja subsidy is KILLER.

I know!

See Jim's great (as usual) account on the latest Mariano record here.

ubu

[Shrdlu]

My favorite is Eric Dolphy.

I also really like Charles McPherson's alto work on that 1973 live album (I forget the album's name, but it's the one with Gerry Mulligan and Gene Ammons, who also play real well, but were not Mingus regulars.)

[JSngry]

Carnegie Hall, right? Big Band, on Columbia. That's good stuff.

I really, REALLY like McPherson on LET MY CHILDREN HEAR MUSIC, especially on the second half of "The Chill Of Death". That'sa some pretty deep stuff, what he plays there.

[kh1958]

I think he's referring to Mingus and Friends in Concert, which was recorded at Philharmonic Hall. I used to not like the original LP issue of this one, making it almost the only Mingus release I didn't care for (other than the two features for Gene Ammons, which I always thought were great), but the 2CD reissue (thankfully deleting Bill Cosby) of the entire concert changed my mind.

My favorite McPherson with Mingus recordings are the two French America releases which used to be available on Prestige as an LP twofer, Reincarnation of a Lovebird (with Byard, Bobby Jones, and Eddie Preston). I wish I had a good CD reissue of this one.

And the bootleg, Live at Chateauvallon (a quartet with John Foster on piano) is a really good one.

[kh1958]

Actually, I forgot my very favorite McPherson performance with Mingus, which is Mingus at Monterey.