Big Beat Steve Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 I don't know about West Coast, but a white East Coast bassist told me he felt he was excluded from work by labels who wanted homogeneously black bands. I believe him in the sense that as a musician he was (and still is) better than some of the people who were commonly called. He was at least called for some famous records with white musicians. It is pretty clear that at that time race was a big feature of image and marketing of recorded music. Crow Jim at work? Little doubt that happened too. Quote
paul secor Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Not many Caucasian leaders at BN - JR Moterose, Sheila Jordan, and Gil Melle come to my mind. Quote
brownie Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Also Urbie Green, Tal Farlow, Sal Salvador, Jutta Hipp, Lou Mecca.... Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Groove Funk Soul (Atlantic 1324) was recorded on July 18, 1958. As you can see from Edwards’ discography: http://www.jazzdisco.org/teddy-edwards/discography/ there were several abortive Edwards dates for Pacific Jazz in May 1958 that produced a few tracks that appeared on PJ anthologies before the first half of Edwards first PJ album “Sunset Eyes,” was recorded on March 21, 1960; the second half of the album, with Castro, Vinnegar, and Higgins, was recorded Aug. 16, 1960. In between, on May 2, 1960, Edwards recorded the PJ album “It’s About Time” with Les McCann. Edwards first Contemporary album, “Teddy’s Ready!” was recorded with Castro, Vinnegar, and Higgins, the day after the second half of the “Sunset Eyes” album, on Aug. 17, 1960. Is there any backstory here? I’ve heard that PJ’s Dick Bock could be a quirky guy in the studio — he certainly was notorious for editing pieces with a free, and often inept, hand (see Bill Perkins Cadence interview on this subject) and/or playing other dire tricks in the post-recording process (e.g. adding Larry Bunker’s dubbed-in drums to Jim Hall’s drum-less “Jazz Guitar” album). Could those two initial Pacific Jazz Edwards-led small ensemble dates have been abortive because Bock got pushy about how things should go, and Edwards either came back at him in kind or withdrew, and/or Bock just pulled the plug? Don’t have Edwards’ Contemporary octet date “Back to Avalon” anymore, but FWIW my memory is that it was a damp squib for the most part. Realizing that that jazzdisco.org page might obviously has a few holes in it, not sure if those first two PJ sessions were "abortive" or not? Maybe demo/singles sessions? I don't know. But let's say that Edwards/Bock was never meant to be, star-crossed lovers, whatever, what to make of Booker 'n' Brass then? That's one of those things I never have figured out in terms of how did THAT record get made like THAT? Found Back To Avalon a bit of a letdown myself, also, but, you know, not everything goes well all the time, much less superbly. Jazzdisco.org is in my experience the best such site on the planet. As for those two Edwards small-ensemble sessions being "abortive" or whatever, I don't know either, but IIRC Bock had a history of bringing musicians into the studio and then coming out with just a few tracks -- thus in part those several PJ semi-thematic compilation albums where the products of two- or three-tune sessions would appear together. For instance, I have (or had) a PJ Broadway show tunes album "Jazz Swings Broadway" with three or so tracks each by IIRC Stu Williamson, Russ Freeman, Shelly Manne, and Cooper-Shank from sessions that AFAIK yielded nothing else that was ever released. A complete label discography for Pacific Jazz probably would reveal the pattern. Interestingly, as you probably know, "Booker n Brass" was recorded in NYC and was arranged and conducted by none other than Teddy Edwards. I doubt that Bock was in the studio, though he is listed as having produced Ervin's previous PJ album "Structurally Sound." Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Here she be: http://www.jazzdisco.org/pacific-jazz-records/ Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 BTW, I notice an error in the Pacific Jazz discography. The spacey comedy album listed below (a longtime favorite of mine) lists “Shorty Petterstein” and Alan Watts in the personnel. “Petterstein” is not a real person but a character created and portrayed by Henry Jacobs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jacobs Jacbs was connected to Zen popularizer Alan Watts, but the other person who appears on the album is not Watts but San Francisco radio personality Woodrow Leafer. BTW, Jacobs is also responsible for the two non-Lenny Bruce tracks — “Shorty Petterstein interview” and “Interview with Dr. Sholem Stein” — on Bruce’s first Fantasy album “Interviews of Our Time” (1958). At least one would-be authoritative fellow writing about Bruce stepped on his dick by attributing those two tracks to Bruce and drawing erroneous conclusions therefrom. Bruce and Jacobs’ senses of humor, etc. were quite different; in particular, Jacobs’ so cool as to be almost comatose jazz musician Shorty Petterstein bore little relationship to the nervous junkie jazz musician in Bruce’s Lawrence Welk routine. Shorty Petterstein Shorty Petterstein, Alan Watts (spoken word) released 1958 ST-2022 A History Of Jazz World Pacific X-652, WPM-412 ST-2023 Origin Of Jazz Terms - "Do You Want A Little Lovin'?" World Pacific WPM-412 Chess (The New 3-Dimensional Variety) - Rock 'N' Roll Interview With Jump Calkenburger - George's Mother (The Classic Psychopath) - Guitar For Sale World Pacific WPM-412, DJ-2 Telephone Therapy (Another Service Of Your Telephone) World Pacific WPM-412 Drums In The Typewriter (Woodrow Leafer) - "A Visit To My Best Girl" - Mental Blockages - I Couldn't Remember The Words - Breaking The Habit (An Easy Way) - "Quiet, Children" - Childhood Traumas - Self Analysis - A Frank Admission - It's No Laughing Matter - * World Pacific WPM-412, WP-1274 The Wide Weird World Of Shorty Petterstein - More Interviews Of Our Time * World Pacific DJ-2 Various Artists - Disc Jockey Edition: A Taste Of The Best From World Pacific * World Pacific X-652 Shorty Petterstein - A History Of Jazz / Origin Of Jazz Terms Quote
AllenLowe Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) just to throw in, Edwards lack of recordings from 67-74 also coincided with the middle and end of one of jazz's greatest slumps in the post-Beatle, '60s rock era. Edited February 10, 2015 by AllenLowe Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Some of Jacobs' work, beginning with the Shorty Petterstein interview. The obtuse broadcaster asking the questions is played by Woodrow Leafer: Sholem Stein interview. Here, Jacobs is the interviewer and the professor is Leafer. Many years ago I played the Stein interview for an old Navy friend of my father’s who actually was an anthropology professor at Notre Dame. Soon tears of laughter were running down his cheeks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKkRdY0dpc&spfreload=10 Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Teddy Edwards' "It's All Right" arrived yesterday. Listened to the first track, and so far it's excellent -- the band very together and obviously well-rehearsed. Only drawback is the work of engineer Richard Alderson -- that twangy piano (though not as twangy as on other dates that Alderson did) and not enough "air" around the band. Ralph Berton's liner notes, which begin with a tirade against "New Thing Nonmusical Music" a.k.a. "Free Form Epilepsy," refer amusingly to Alderson's "groovy, intimate recording studio." Berton also quotes Jimmy Owens as saying that it was "the happiest sound in New York." Quote
danasgoodstuff Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 I kinda like Back to Avalon, it's no Sonny's Dream but it's every bit as good as KD's Blue Spring, to make a couple of not-quite-totally pointless comparisons... Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Having now heard all of it, I think Teddy Edwards' "It's All Right!" is a remarkable date. Everyone (Edwards, Jimmy Owens, Garnett Brown, Cedar Walton, Ben Tucker, Lenny McBrowne) is in fine form -- this may be Brown's best outing on record, he takes two absolutely hellacious solos; Walton's comping is inspired and his solo work sparkles. Tucker (nicely clear in the mix) is a rock, and Edwards' lyrical earthiness is ... well good-sized chunks of his solos here are just songs, if you know what I mean. And his writing and arranging -- listen to the soulful, somewhat Dameron-esque ballad "Afraid of Love" or the Ellingtonian (in quality as well as style) interlude on "Back Alley Blues." I feel very lucky to have been led to this one by this thread. Quote
AllenLowe Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 garnett brown - I remember hearing him when I was a kid, with Thad Jones/Mel Lewis; he seems to have disappeared after that. Quote
sidewinder Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 garnett brown - I remember hearing him when I was a kid, with Thad Jones/Mel Lewis; he seems to have disappeared after that. I think he was in an LA big band lineup I saw of Dizzy Gillespie alumni back in the late 1990s. Quote
JSngry Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Let's not forget his work with Herbie's band. Don't remember if he transitioned over to the earliest Mwandishi band, don't think he did. Also Schlitten-generated was Booker Ervin's Heavy!!! which was a pretty insane album all things considered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QinOXer70 Quote
ArtSalt Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 What about the other Teddy on the west coast, Teddy Charles? Collaboration: West with Jimmy Giuffre, Curtis Counce, Shorty Rogers and Shelly Manne, recorded in Hollywood in August 1953 and filled to the brim with what would go on in the late 50s and early 60s to be called Third Stream. An interesting album, quite ahead of the game for the period. Quote
Joe Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 What about the other Teddy on the west coast, Teddy Charles? Collaboration: West with Jimmy Giuffre, Curtis Counce, Shorty Rogers and Shelly Manne, recorded in Hollywood in August 1953 and filled to the brim with what would go on in the late 50s and early 60s to be called Third Stream. An interesting album, quite ahead of the game for the period. Easily some of my favorite Rogers on record. Charles is also an important voice on this "I wish this has produced more than four tunes" session: Frank Morgan (as); Wardell Gray (ts); Teddy Charles (vib); Sonny Clark (p); Dick Nivison (b); Lawrence “Larance” Marable (d). Recording session for Prestige Records, Los Angeles, CA, February 20, 1953 467 The Man I Love # 7" 45: prEP 1307 468 Lavonne # 7" 45: prEP 1307 469 So Long Broadway # 7" 45: prEP 1307; 78 rpm: Pr 889 470 Paul's Cause # 7" 45: prEP 1307 All titles are on 12-inch LP: Prestige LP PRLP 7008. Quote
ArtSalt Posted April 25, 2015 Report Posted April 25, 2015 From a record label perspective on the West Coast immediately after WWII you need go: Dial, Aladdin, Gene Norman Presents, Sunset, Pacific Jazz, Contemporary, Good Time Jazz, Discovery, Black and White, Atomic and a few other small independents. Quote
Late Posted May 1, 2015 Report Posted May 1, 2015 ... listen to the soulful, somewhat Dameron-esque ballad "Afraid of Love" ... I feel very lucky to have been led to this one by this thread. Listening to this track now. Beautiful. Time to bump a few Teddy threads up. Quote
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