Rediscovering the MJQ

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I started off with the MJQ early in 1960 – aged 16. I bought two of their albums – “One never knows” and “Music in vol 2” – without having heard them, mainly because they were on Atlantic. And over the next several years, I got a load more, eventually having 11 of ‘em. Then I got rid of them all because I needed money to buy Soul Jazz and there was little in common between Soul Jazz and MJQ.

Soon afterwards, though, I started buying the odd Milt Jackson album – Soul Jazz stuff again to start off with, with Ray Charles, Stanley Turrentine, Wes Montgomery and Cannonball. And a lot more in the past ten years or so; some of them rather more Bop oriented than most.

A few months ago, I began to feel that I’d probably missed a lot of what Milt was doing in the MJQ records I’d sold over 40 years ago. So I picked up a few albums. Three I had had before – “One never knows”; “Pyramid” and “The sheriff”. Two I hadn’t heard before – “Fontessa” and “The M J Q”. I also wanted to get “Blues at Carnegie Hall”, which was the last one I bought in the sixties, but it was a bit expensive at the time, so I gave it a miss.

I deliberately eschewed the more fanciful MJQ albums I’d had before, like “Third stream music”, “Collaboration”, “Odds against tomorrow”. I did want to get the ones I thought would be more centrally located in modern jazz.

Well, all was as I remembered it, but yet not. I knew how well the band had swung, but I didn’t really know how well they’d swung. I knew what a beautiful sound they had – it seems to me that this is the real thing the MJQ did better than almost any other band – make beautiful sounding music. This time round, it seemed to me that the man really responsible for the band’s sound was Connie Kay. All those tiny cymbals, triangles and whatnots really made the overall picture John Lewis had conceived. And it was Kay who really swung that band, too. And there’s a curious parallel with the Jazz Crusaders – because it’s Stix Hooper who really gave that band it’s sound.

But CKQ is really hard to say, y’know?

MG

[Dan Gould]

The MJQ was one of the first groups I ever saw live, within a year or so of my discovery of jazz. I had a roommate who was more into contemporary jazz but strongly encouraged me to see them when they played in St. Louis (Question for St. Louis folks: what was that relatively small auditorium with great accoustics? The Kiel Auditorium? Its been so long ...).

Anyway, that started me on a major MJQ (and Bags) kick. You're right, MG, about how Connie Kay swung the band. I loved how he played "The Cylinder" that night. I never went as deep into the "Third Stream" LPs as it was Bags' earthiness that attracted me the most, so I was like you in that regard, too.

I need to find time to spin some MJQ soon.

[kh1958]

They seem to have become an underappreciated group--their catalog is pretty large--I enjoy them and pick up their LPs when I can find them in acceptable condition. One that I recently purchased and really like is their Apple release, Under the Jasmine Tree.

[Teasing the Korean]

I have accumulated a large number of their LPs over the years, and while I don't consider myself a huge fan, when I'm in the mood nothing beats them. They have a very European sensibility to my ears. I especially like the titles that MG refers to as "fanciful," including "Odds Against Tomorrow," "Third Stream," and "No Sun in Venice."

I have found over the decades that they were sort of a gateway jazz act for many people, along with Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, and Miles. I have seen large collections with very little jazz except for a couple of MJQ albums.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I have accumulated a large number of their LPs over the years, and while I don't consider myself a huge fan, when I'm in the mood nothing beats them. They have a very European sensibility to my ears. I especially like the titles that MG refers to as "fanciful," including "Odds Against Tomorrow," "Third Stream," and "No Sun in Venice."

I have found over the decades that they were sort of a gateway jazz act for many people, along with Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, and Miles. I have seen large collections with very little jazz except for a couple of MJQ albums.

Funnily enough, as I was listening to some of these a while back, I thought you'd probably like them. I don't think they're for every day, but I do like listening to them over breakfast.

By the way, "No sun in Venice" is "One never knows". One reason I got that one is because I'd seen the film the previous year in a re-release cinema in Golders Green (it was called "When the Devil drives" over here). And why I got it again this year is because I'd just been listening to an Ernestine Anderson album with a vocal version of "One never knows". A lovely tune.

MG

[JohnS]

I've always loved the Prestige recordings. But probably my favourite of the Atlantics is 'The Complete Last Concert'.

[AllenLowe]

I've always been bugged by John Lewis; though he was one of the first to praise Ornette, near the end of his life he made very disparaging remarks about Coleman, to the effect that Ornette had become just another musical nut -

I think Lewis was an interesting composer but I weary of his pronouncements about the blues - what I get from his own blues playing is "hey, though I am sophisticated and erudite I have not forgotten my roots." Well, I feel the same way about myself - except I would add "handsome."

the rest of the band is fine, however (the MJT?) -

Edited September 26, 2009 by AllenLowe

[marcello]

This one is really great:

[gmonahan]

I came to them early, then left for a long time as well. And it was Bags that brought me back. A complete box of their Atlantic albums might qualify as one of the biggest boxes of all time. I wonder how many separate LPs they made for that label? A lot!

greg mo

[Dan Gould]

I think Lewis was an interesting composer but I weary of his pronouncements about the blues - what I get from his own blues playing is "hey, though I am sophisticated and erudite I have not forgotten my roots." Well, I feel the same way about myself - except I would add "handsome."

Have to disagree on this - for some excellent blues solos I recommend Benny Carter's Central City Sketches, a big band recording with Lewis on piano for a portion of the tunes (can't recall who the other pianist was).

the rest of the band is fine, however (the MJT?) -

Sorry, but the MJT recorded some fine LPs for Vee Jay.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Dan Gould

[Peter Friedman]

The MJQ provides a good illustration of the diversity that exists within "Modern Jazz". Though Bags sounds great with piano players such as Cedar Walton, the blend he gets with John Lewis, Percy heath and Connie kay is something very different and beautiful.

The piano playing of John Lewis has a highly identifiable and individual quality to it not found in the playing of most jazz pianists. Just yesterday I played one of the MJQ CDs in my collection and thoroughly enjoyed it. In my view, the MJQ has been an important part of the jazz scene and it's contributions have greatly enriched the listening environment.

[jostber]

This is a really cool cover:

[AllenLowe]

I can only quote Lennie Tristano (he said this to me circa 1975):

"John Lewis? Now Hank Jones, THERE's a piano player - "

[Don Brown]

I 've always loved the recordings John Lewis made with Lester Young in 1950 and '51, especially Petes's Cafe and Little Pee Blues from the Norman Granz session of January 16th, 1951. Lewis' keyboard economy suits Pres to a "T" and his rhythm section colleagues, Gene Ramey and Jo Jones complete a perfect team.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

"hey, though I am sophisticated and erudite I have not forgotten my roots."

I can see what you mean and, in a way, I agree. But there's "Parker's mood", as well. Oh, and Sonny Stitt's version, too. John Lewis was what he was and, yes, sophisticated and erudite but also attached to his roots (though not IMMERSED in them). I'm not sure that it's a bad thing for a person to show different sides at different times. But I do think it's a bad thing for someone to expect consistency from a human being. Even an artist.

MG

[sidewinder]

They seem to have become an underappreciated group--their catalog is pretty large--I enjoy them and pick up their LPs when I can find them in acceptable condition. One that I recently purchased and really like is their Apple release, Under the Jasmine Tree.

Yeah, that one and 'Space' are both really nice. Is it me or is there a hint of 60s psychadelia about these MJQ recordings for Apple? Whatever it is, the sound on these LPs is very appealing. Will have to dig them out..

[JSngry]

Is it me or is there a hint of 60s psychadelia about these MJQ recordings for Apple?

Not so much Jasmine Tree, but very much so on Space. The latter is the one I like to pull on "modernists" who insist that they don't like the MJQ. If they get through that one w/o liking it, then I believe them.

[jlhoots]

I can only quote Lennie Tristano (he said this to me circa 1975):

"John Lewis? Now Hank Jones, THERE's a piano player - "

I like all 3 of them.

So there!!

[Stereojack]

I dearly love just about everything by the MJQ, but I can remember when I used to think that they were too genteel, too pristine, with their tuxedos and their prim and proper music. Eventually Bags won me over, and in time I developed a deep admiration for all of them, their individual talents, and what magic they were able to achieve as a unit.

Nowadays when I encounter that attitude among jazz newbies, I think, "just you wait. You'll discover them someday", which is what my parents said to me about lobster when I was a kid.

[John L]

I dearly love just about everything by the MJQ, but I can remember when I used to think that they were too genteel, too pristine, with their tuxedos and their prim and proper music. Eventually Bags won me over, and in time I developed a deep admiration for all of them, their individual talents, and what magic they were able to achieve as a unit.

Nowadays when I encounter that attitude among jazz newbies, I think, "just you wait. You'll discover them someday", which is what my parents said to me about lobster when I was a kid.

I have been listening to jazz for a long time, and I have to say that the MJQ have still not won me over. Being a Bags fan, I can only rejoice in the fact that Bags made so many fine recordings outside of the John Lewis chamber jazz context.

[sidewinder]

It was listening to a John Lewis solo recital in person (stood next to the piano) that brought home to me just what a civilised, class act he was. Until then, I too had taken the MJQ and Lewis's playing in the unit for granted. One could also see that he was thoroughly enjoying playing the recital too, in his quiet way.

His presence on the scene (along with all of the other MJQ members including Kenny Clarke) is most definitely missed.

Edited September 27, 2009 by sidewinder

[JohnS]

Lewis was a perfect accompanist, not only with the MJQ. Adding to the melody line with perfectly placed chords that add to the melody line and at the same time providing a unique quiet excitement pushing the music along.

[Cliff Englewood]

I have been listening to jazz for a long time, and I have to say that the MJQ have still not won me over. Being a Bags fan, I can only rejoice in the fact that Bags made so many fine recordings outside of the John Lewis chamber jazz context.

Yes, I'd go along with that, although I do like a lot of what I've heard the individual members have done on their own or as sidemen, Bags especially.

[BruceH]

I've long thought of John Lewis as a sort of be-bop version of Basie.

[mjzee]

I dearly love just about everything by the MJQ, but I can remember when I used to think that they were too genteel, too pristine, with their tuxedos and their prim and proper music. Eventually Bags won me over, and in time I developed a deep admiration for all of them, their individual talents, and what magic they were able to achieve as a unit.

Nowadays when I encounter that attitude among jazz newbies, I think, "just you wait. You'll discover them someday", which is what my parents said to me about lobster when I was a kid.

I have been listening to jazz for a long time, and I have to say that the MJQ have still not won me over. Being a Bags fan, I can only rejoice in the fact that Bags made so many fine recordings outside of the John Lewis chamber jazz context.

I agree. The MJQ is like Milt Jackson without the mojo. I think the source of the problem was John Lewis - he tried to tamp down or make "genteel" the groove that Milt tried to start.