Last Shop Standing (Whatever happened to record shops?)

[A Lark Ascending]

You might find there are other places you can meet people. Try the pub.

I never found record shops particularly sociable - more like the urinals hilarious commented on by the Mole Jazz owner.

[gmonahan]

Hopelessly old-fashioned as I am, I just enjoyed going in and seeing what I'd see that might surprise me. I still found some things at the Paris Jazz Corner last time I was there that were new to me, and, call me goofy, but the physical act of thumbing through cds is, well, fun! But like most here, I get about 98% of my music on-line.

gregmo

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I never found record shops particularly sociable - more like the urinals hilarious commented on by the Mole Jazz owner.

Oh I did. Particularly in the very early sixties. Getting friendly with the staff (especially the young girl who worked in Boyd's of Bond Street) was the way to get information. That particular young lady got me the Cash Box top 100 every week and let me know which recordings were about to come out over here, so I could order them. But I never got to go out with her

There was a great Jazz/Blues/Folk specialist shop called Studio 4 in The Lanes, Brighton, run by a vibes player called Ken Bryant. All the local jazz musicians used to hang there. The shop was next door to a cafe and, for regulars, he'd send his young lady staff out to get us a cuppa, when he felt like one. Eventually (about 1966, I think), he left his wife, took a powder, and slipped away to Spain with his young lady, where he became a bus driver.

Derek Stuart-Baxter, a critic for Jazz Journal, ran the jazz section of Wickham, Kimber and Oakley, in George Street, Hove; another source of good info and bad opinions, until we converted him to Grant Green. He wrote a very good piece on GG in the JJ called 'Green is beautiful', when that album came out. Same went, later, for Sound Advice, Castle Arcade, Cardiff, the jazz section of which was run by the secretary of the Welsh Jazz Society.

And Spillers has lasted since 1894 because the shop has consistently had a policy of employing staff who actually knew a thing or two about different types of music and could talk intelligently about it to the customers.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

I enjoyed going to them in their time. Spent way too many Saturdays in record shops from 1970 until about 2005 or so.

But I don't miss them. Online purchasing (and downloading in particular) suits me much more.

Edited December 15, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[brownie]

Interesting that their near-equivalent in France - FNAC - seems to be doing OK…

A trip to FNAC in Lille at the end of a holiday in France used to be a treat but in recent years I've stopped going. All the branches that I've been in carry very little jazz and far less than they used to.

I don't go to FNAC stores much these days. However a recent visit to the FNAC Left Bank store on the Rue de Rennes proved interesting with a well-stocked jazz section. (plenty of Japanese imports!). The FNAC store at the Forum des Halles was not too bad either.

[brownie]

And now it's the Paris Virgin Megastore on the Champs-Elysées avenue that seems to be about to be closed after the building that houses the store has been aquired by the Qatar Investment Authority, the wealth fund that bought London's Harrods store.

A couple of decades ago, the Champs-Elysées Megastore was the best place to buy jazz albums. The jazz section was never the same after Daniel Richard who was in charge of the jazz dept. left the Virgin conglomerate.

[Face of the Bass]

Well I absolutely love record stores. Every time I hit a new city I always find out where the record stores are (if there are any) and drop a boatload of cash. Online shopping is nowhere near as fun, and downloading is awful. I'm a human being, which means that I relate better to physical objects.

Does that make me old-fashioned? Maybe. But I'm only 35.

[jeffcrom]

Who needs record stores? They're just messy places where you have to deal with people. Who needs in person contact? We can all meet on line and avoid it.

You might find there are other places you can meet people. Try the pub.

I never found record shops particularly sociable - more like the urinals hilarious commented on by the Mole Jazz owner.

I was going to respond to recent developments in this thread this morning, but I'm glad I waited until this evening, after I visited one of my favorite Atlanta record stores, where I have bought 78s, 45s, LPs, and CDs.

To each his own, of course, but I think that Bev is missing part of Paul's point. You can meet people all sorts of places, but record stores attract those who are as obsessed by music as we are. Today I poked around Wuxtry Records for 45 minutes, and only bought one record - a Lou Donaldson LP on Timeless. Wuxtry is a two-man operation; I've been buying records from Mark, the owner, since 1976, when he opened up a tiny shop in Athens, Georgia; he bought used records for a dollar and sold them for two dollars. He left five minutes after I got there today, wishing me a merry Christmas, and left the store in the hands of his one employee. He and I talked about Papa Lou - he was not aware that LD was still performing - and he told me a few stories he had heard from Wendell Echols, the late Atlanta record collector, producer, and character. One involved a Charlie Parker concert at the now-demolished National Guard Armory near Piedmont Park in Atlanta; Bird was wobbly, so the promoter brought out a chair for him to lean on between solos.

And yes, there are many ways to sample previously unheard music now, but somehow nothing matches the impact of hearing some amazing music for the first time in a record store. I can't remember all the music that moved me so much that I had to have it after hearing it in a record store, but one recent example is the Von Freeman/Willis Jackson album on Muse that I bought off the turntable of the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago in March. And years ago in Atlanta, the version of Samuel Barber's Adagio conducted by Thomas Schippers brought me to tears right there in the store, so of course, I bought the CD, even though I had three other recordings of the piece at home.

Everybody's different, but I'll be a sad MF if all the record stores in Atlanta close. Collectively, they are (as I think I've said earlier in this thread) my third place.

[mjzee]

I agree with you; music should be heard in public.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

And yes, there are many ways to sample previously unheard music now, but somehow nothing matches the impact of hearing some amazing music for the first time in a record store. I can't remember all the music that moved me so much that I had to have it after hearing it in a record store, but one recent example is the Von Freeman/Willis Jackson album on Muse that I bought off the turntable of the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago in March.

YAAAAYYYYY!!!!

Vonski with Boogaloo Joe Jones!!!

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think I should have mentioned before in this thread that, despite indie shops moaning about the likes of HMV and Virgin undercutting their prices, an indie could cut a deal with a major. Spillers used to have a deal going with Blue Note (80s/90s I think) which enabled them to undercut HMV and Virgin by a pound. And another under which they sold Blue Note/Spillers mugs! I have one (of course!) which has the BN logo with 'The finest in jazz since 1939' on one side and 'Spillers of Cardiff the world's finest record shop since 1894' on the other.

Is it lack of imagination or business acumen that has made the indies commit suicide?

MG

[sidewinder]

'Duck, Son and Pinker' in Bath used to compare favourably on prices of Blue Note CDs comared with HMV and Virgin - until they were undercut big-time by FOPP. FOPP during circa 2001-2006 was like kids in a candy store.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Fopp never meant much in Cardiff. I think it closed about 2006, after being open only a couple of years.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

You can meet people all sorts of places, but record stores attract those who are as obsessed by music as we are.

I'm sure that's true but I never found a shop like that. Maybe mainly me as I'm not one to strike up conversations with people I don't know in shops.

There were places where the owner got to recognise me as a regular customer and we'd have a bit of a chat.

Agree about the fun of being blindsided by something you'd never heard whilst browsing.

I did really enjoy my record buying years. But I don't miss them. My musical interests have broadened considerably since the arrival of the net because it is so much easier to follow my natural instincts off the the beaten track.

Edited December 21, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[A Lark Ascending]

RE: The situation in the UK.

More than £1bn was spent on downloaded films, music and games in 2012, the highest annual total.

Sales increased 11.4% from 2011, meaning that a quarter of the entertainment market is now digital.

But figures released later by entertainment retailers will also show a big drop in physical sales - more bad news for high street shops.

Sales of CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray and video games fell by 17.6% in 2011 although they still make up most of the market.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20885506

Edited January 2, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[BillF]

One nice little area of survival for the CD - the oldies who go to the sort of gigs I frequent are still happy to buy them from the musicians. Greg Abate actually sold out of these half way through his recent three-week English tour:

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't think it's just an oldies thing. Whenever I go to a concert there are usually CDs on sale. I imagine CD has a long life left there. In my case, where I used to be a chronic indulger, especially at festivals, I now tend to check the iPhone to see how much cheaper the download is! Buy it when I get home.

I imagine the drop in physical sales is largely accounted for by more popular music. Go into any of the more specialised musical areas and you read again and again of a preference for the physical product.

I don't think the major record companies themselves have fully committed themselves to downloading outside the popular field (some of the smaller ones are much better); it's as if they make their recordings available for download as an extra way of bringing in revenue as opposed to putting some real thought into how this might become their main means of disseminating recordings. Too many blips still - a consistent approach to providing artwork, a failure to address the issue of gaps between tracks that bedevil some recording etc.

And yet...the audio pages of Gramophone magazine seem to suggest that various streaming machines are leaping off the shelves.

That could be another problem. I can't get my head round the streaming machines. Would probably be the most sensible direction for me to move in but I end every review more befuddled than ever.

Edited January 2, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[BillF]

I don't think it's just an oldies thing. Whenever I go to a concert there are usually CDs on sale. I imagine CD has a long life left there. In my case, where I used to be a chronic indulger, especially at festivals, I now tend to check the iPhone to see how much cheaper the download is! Buy it when I get home.

I imagine the drop in physical sales is largely accounted for by more popular music. Go into any of the more specialised musical areas and you read again and again of a preference for the physical product.

I don't think the major record companies themselves have fully committed themselves to downloading outside the popular field (some of the smaller ones are much better); it's as if they make their recordings available for download as an extra way of bringing in revenue as opposed to putting some real thought into how this might become their main means of disseminating recordings. Too many blips still - a consistent approach to providing artwork, a failure to address the issue of gaps between tracks that bedevil some recording etc.

And yet...the audio pages of Gramophone magazine seem to suggest that various streaming machines are leaping off the shelves.

That could be another problem. I can't get my head round the streaming machines. Would probably be the most sensible direction for me to move in but I end every review more befuddled than ever.

Interesting information there. I don't have much to do with the classical scene, but didn't imagine fans would be downloading operas and symphonies for listening on their IPhones.

[A Lark Ascending]

Interesting information there. I don't have much to do with the classical scene, but didn't imagine fans would be downloading operas and symphonies for listening on their IPhones.

I'm not sure iPhones are a sensible option at present - not enough memory to store that much and the batteries run down quite fast.

But iPods - that's a different matter. I listen to a lot that way - especially before 10 a.m. when I'm home - no danger of disturbing the neighbours.

Take a look here as to how an enterprising company has adjusted to the changing world:

http://www.gimell.co...z-pensées.aspx

Downloads to suit even the most audio-obsessive.

Or here:

http://www.hyperion-...DA67941/2&vw=dc

A range of three different types of download.

Edited January 2, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[BillF]

Interesting information there. I don't have much to do with the classical scene, but didn't imagine fans would be downloading operas and symphonies for listening on their IPhones.

I'm not sure iPhones are a sensible option at present - not enough memory to store that much and the batteries run down quite fast.

But iPods - that's a different matter. I listen to a lot that way - especially before 10 a.m. when I'm home - no danger of disturbing the neighbours.

Judging from the massive pre-Xmas advertising campaign on the exterior of the buses here, the iPod is still alive, tho' perhaps in need of a boost. I'd thought it had died the death, as my daughters, who once seemed addicted to it, never mention it now and do all their listening on their phones. I suspect they're very typical of the 18 to 30-ish age group, judging by my observations as a bus rider.

[John Tapscott]

Yes, my 18 year old daughter offered to give me her iPod (which I paid for in the first place). I declined. I'm so old-fasioned and out-of-date that I still listen to vinyl LP's. And I still thrill to receiving a CD mailer in the post and ripping it open to find the treasured CD therein. Doesn't take much, I guess. But I just don't like downloads and the rest. A discman is my limit. I like the physical product and when they're no longer available I'll stop buying. Of course, I could stop buying now and have more than enough to listen to for the rest of my days. Oh, that's next year's New Year's resolution.

Edited January 2, 2013 by John Tapscott

[sidewinder]

All of these gizmos seem to have a half-life measured in months. The LPs will still be going strong 50 years hence.

[danasgoodstuff]

Still lots of Bricks & Mortor record stores here in Portlandia...how else can musicians support themselves?

[A Lark Ascending]

All of these gizmos seem to have a half-life measured in months. The LPs will still be going strong 50 years hence.

Well, it would be nice to think it would be still going for those who enjoy that format. And I'm sure if there's a market, someone will continue to supply it. With lots of people who grew up with LPs still around for a while yet I expect LPs will continue to be made.

Whether it survives as the fetish article it is for the younger listener who never experienced it as the primary medium I somehow doubt.

Given the desire to own physical product I imagine something like the CD will continue to play a major role. Unless a tipping point occurs when the number of people requiring their music to be in 'owned' form becomes so small that it not worth anyone's while to make them.

I suspect our need to consume and have conspicuous evidence of that consumption will win the day. I might consume music in download form where possible but I still like to have a physical copy on a CD-R. Old habits die hard.

Edited January 2, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes, my 18 year old daughter offered to give me her iPod (which I paid for in the first place). I declined. I'm so old-fasioned and out-of-date that I still listen to vinyl LP's. And I still thrill to receiving a CD mailer in the post and ripping it open to find the treasured CD therein. Doesn't take much, I guess. But I just don't like downloads and the rest. A discman is my limit. I like the physical product and when they're no longer available I'll stop buying. Of course, I could stop buying now and have more than enough to listen to for the rest of my days. Oh, that's next year's New Year's resolution.

+1 :tup

You nailed it.