Last Shop Standing (Whatever happened to record shops?)

[A Lark Ascending]

Well, that and...

[mjazzg]

I seriously doubt that the rent was the major problem. Jazz and Classical don't sell well to begin with, and folks are moving away from physical products in droves these days. Those two factors would kill any shop, even if the rent were dirt cheap.

The simple fact is that record/CD shops are a thing of the past because records/CDs are no longer the desired and profitable medium they once were.

yes,especially for new stock etc but in London Flashback Records have just opened a third store selling secondhand vinyl and CDs but also with a noticeably larger new vinyl stock. Sure they're riding the vinyl wave which may well not last and their new shop's in Hipster Central but they do seem to have a model that's working now and has worked for over 20 years so far

[BillF]

Well, that and...

[sidewinder]

Well, that and...

Hmmm. Although that is a significant issue, it is not the whole story. In the case of Bath, the rents are by far the main factor. Other towns in the vicinity (Frome for example) continue to offer jazz CDs on the high street.

[Scott Dolan]

And it will be interesting to see for how much longer.

Barnes & Noble don't even staff their CD department anymore.

And independents (outside of larger operations like Dusty Groove and Downtown Music Gallery) are pretty much extinct in the U.S.

Even large retailers like Barnes & Noble and Best Buy have dramatically cut their in-store stock. That has nothing to do with rent, it has everything to do with demand.

There's a very good reason why Virgin shuttered it's megastores globally years ago.

If rent is too high, the smart business owner moves. If demand doesn't dictate staying in business, then you close. That's why your assessment doesn't make any sense.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[sidewinder]

That's why your assessment doesn't make any sense.

If you say so...... . Now back onto 'ignore'.

Edited March 29, 2015 by sidewinder

[Scott Dolan]

Because I stated my case and gave reasons as to why closing a business where there is still demand simply because the rent is too high doesn't make sense?

Ok...

[Dave Garrett]

And it will be interesting to see for how much longer.

Barnes & Noble don't even staff their CD department anymore.

And independents (outside of larger operations like Dusty Groove and Downtown Music Gallery) are pretty much extinct in the U.S.

Even large retailers like Barnes & Noble and Best Buy have dramatically cut their in-store stock. That has nothing to do with rent, it has everything to do with demand.

There's a very good reason why Virgin shuttered it's megastores globally years ago.

If rent is too high, the smart business owner moves. If demand doesn't dictate staying in business, then you close. That's why your assessment doesn't make any sense.

All of the Barnes & Noble stores local to me have a separate "Media" department combining DVDs/Blu-rays and music (CDs and, more recently, vinyl), and they have staff dedicated to the Media department. Granted, the music selection is pretty bare-bones compared to what it once was, in contrast to the DVDs and Blu-rays which are quite well-stocked.

Or did you mean that B&N didn't have staff specifically allocated to music and not video?

[JohnJ]

I seriously doubt that the rent was the major problem. Jazz and Classical don't sell well to begin with, and folks are moving away from physical products in droves these days. Those two factors would kill any shop, even if the rent were dirt cheap.

The simple fact is that record/CD shops are a thing of the past because records/CDs are no longer the desired and profitable medium they once were.

Definitely not true in Tokyo. Disk Union continues to not only survive but open in new locations. Their stores are always crowded whenever I visit.

[Scott Dolan]

All of the Barnes & Noble stores local to me have a separate "Media" department combining DVDs/Blu-rays and music (CDs and, more recently, vinyl), and they have staff dedicated to the Media department. Granted, the music selection is pretty bare-bones compared to what it once was, in contrast to the DVDs and Blu-rays which are quite well-stocked.

Or did you mean that B&N didn't have staff specifically allocated to music and not video?

No, the ones around here are set up the exact same way (all B&N locations are that I've ever been in). But, they no longer staff that area because it makes no business sense. My neighbor is a manager at our local B & N, and he said they cut the full time staff from that department a couple of years ago.

I seriously doubt that the rent was the major problem. Jazz and Classical don't sell well to begin with, and folks are moving away from physical products in droves these days. Those two factors would kill any shop, even if the rent were dirt cheap.

The simple fact is that record/CD shops are a thing of the past because records/CDs are no longer the desired and profitable medium they once were.

Definitely not true in Tokyo. Disk Union continues to not only survive but open in new locations. Their stores are always crowded whenever I visit.

That's cool, but most definitely not the case here in the States. Or the rest of the world, for that matter.

In 2007 Music Zone closed all 104 of its store in the UK, Virgin Megastores shuttered for good in 2009, Tower records is no longer with us, nor is Camelot/FYE, and I think Peaches is now down to one lonely location. These weren't due to accidental mismanagement, or the rent being too high. These were enormous, in some cases global, chains.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[A Lark Ascending]

There are clearly a range of contributory factors at work. I'd agree that the dominating one is the difficulty physical stores have competing with online retailing.

However, there is a niche market in Britain for some stores stocking CDs and LPs - a fraction of what was once there, but still there.

The situation in Bath is particular to up-market tourist towns. Bath is a rather 'posh' town with lots of added tourist trade. Exactly the sort of place that should be able to sustain a bijoux CD/record shop. But because the competition for premises in the central area is so intense the rents go up and a CD/record shop can't compete with an upmarket handbag shop or Jamie Oliver restaurant.

**********************

I notice the equally posh Cheltenham is still sustaining a CD/record store:

http://shop.badlands.co.uk/

Don't know if Sounds Good is still going. I remember it closing about ten years back but getting bought and relocated by a chap I used to see around the festival a lot. Seemed a bad bit of timing - just as downloading and online buying started to bite. He was quite adventurous with new releases in classical, jazz and folk/world. Can't find an online presence.

Edited March 30, 2015 by A Lark Ascending

[sidewinder]

The situation in Bath is particular to up-market tourist towns. Bath is a rather 'posh' town with lots of added tourist trade. Exactly the sort of place that should be able to sustain a bijoux CD/record shop. But because the competition for premises in the central area is so intense the rents go up and a CD/record shop can't compete with an upmarket handbag shop or Jamie Oliver restaurant.

**********************

I notice the equally posh Cheltenham is still sustaining a CD/record store:

Exactly ! There should be enough jazz heads and equally minded visitors coming to Bath and/or Bristol to make a 'business case'.

Re: Cheltenham. They have the 'Vinyl Vault' there - I assume it is still going?

Definitely not true in Tokyo. Disk Union continues to not only survive but open in new locations. Their stores are always crowded whenever I visit.

Very good point John and that very example did happen to cross my mind (how can I forget the place ). Not only that but they manage to sustain a specialist store with 'just' Jazz Piano Trios, dammit !

Edited March 30, 2015 by sidewinder

[Scott Dolan]

There are clearly a range of contributory factors at work. I'd agree that the dominating one is the difficulty physical stores have competing with online retailing.

However, there is a niche market in Britain for some stores stocking CDs and LPs - a fraction of what was once there, but still there.

The situation in Bath is particular to up-market tourist towns. Bath is a rather 'posh' town with lots of added tourist trade. Exactly the sort of place that should be able to sustain a bijoux CD/record shop. But because the competition for premises in the central area is so intense the rents go up and a CD/record shop can't compete with an upmarket handbag shop or Jamie Oliver restaurant.

**********************

I notice the equally posh Cheltenham is still sustaining a CD/record store:

http://shop.badlands.co.uk/

Don't know if Sounds Good is still going. I remember it closing about ten years back but getting bought and relocated by a chap I used to see around the festival a lot. Seemed a bad bit of timing - just as downloading and online buying started to bite. He was quite adventurous with new releases in classical, jazz and folk/world. Can't find an online presence.

A balanced and thoughtful explanation, thank you.

Certainly a niche market exists, and likely always will.

I think my biggest hangup was sidewinder seemingly inferring that high rent was the sole factor, or even the biggest of multiple factors. As I said, if the demand is there, no business capable of meeting said demand will shutter due strictly to rent prices.

Oddly enough, if you read into the demise of the Virgin Megastores, part of the problem was that their rent was so far below market value that it was bought out by real estate companies who wanted to make more money off of their prime real estate locations. There was no way they were going to stay in business had they paid market value for their properties because of the dwindling market for physical music and books.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[ornette]

Nice piece on long departed record shops here.

The link inside to http://www.britishrecordshoparchive.orgis worth following.

[David Ayers]

Sorry to butt in on the nostalgia and wallowing. The Bath store was located between a tattoo studio and a barber shop. If sidewinder had really tried to find the jazz store he would have found it inside the new premises. Don't get me wrong. There *is* a global conspiracy against stores that no-one uses but everyone imagines other people should.

[A Lark Ascending]

I once thought I lived at the heart of the record buying world....but....

Vinyl Countdown: How do three new subscription services stack up?

Cocktail recipes? 

[sidewinder]

Sorry to butt in on the nostalgia and wallowing. The Bath store was located between a tattoo studio and a barber shop. If sidewinder had really tried to find the jazz store he would have found it inside the new premises. Don't get me wrong. There *is* a global conspiracy against stores that no-one uses but everyone imagines other people should.

Eh?  

Edited September 20, 2015 by sidewinder

[David Ayers]

HMV attempting to turn the tide...

 

HMV Birmingham: Can a record store work in a digital age? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49681272

[sidewinder]

On 12/10/2019 at 10:22 PM, David Ayers said:

HMV attempting to turn the tide...

 

HMV Birmingham: Can a record store work in a digital age? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49681272

That Birmingham location should do OK. My last trip up there, other than The Diskery, it was pretty barren with regard to music outlets. Plus - Birmingham seems to be on the up again.

Wonder when Oxford Street will be back in business, if at all ?

 

[David Ayers]

2 hours ago, sidewinder said:

That Birmingham location should do OK. My last trip up there, other than The Diskery, it was pretty barren with regard to music outlets. Plus - Birmingham seems to be on the up again.

Wonder when Oxford Street will be back in business, if at all ?

 

I think they say that they ditched Oxford Street because it was too expensive.

Edited October 14, 2019 by David Ayers

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I was in Portsmouth NH yesterday and stopped into the Bull Moose Music store there. I was pretty disappointed by what I saw. The new vinyl section was filled with legit-looking bootlegs, either European gray goods or outright boots of unlicensed live recordings. The CD section was only a little better. It wasn't that long ago that they never would have had these in their store. I guess when it's all you can stock, you stock it?

[sidewinder]

My local HMV at last check was stocked with the latest Tone Poet LPs such as ‘Mr Shing a Ling’ and ‘Chant’. Quite a respectable stock for what is a low key location - the first time for years in fact. At £40+ each I passed though !

[Kevin Bresnahan]

25 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

My local HMV at last check was stocked with the latest Tone Poet LPs such as ‘Mr Shing a Ling’ and ‘Chant’. Quite a respectable stock for what is a low key location - the first time for years in fact. At £40+ each I passed though !

Bull Moose has those too but in the same slots, they have unauthorized versions of many sessions.

For instance, they have the recent BN 80th anniversary edition LP of Herbie Hancock's "Takin' Off" for $23.97. It's cut from the master tapes by Kevin Gray at Cohearant Audio and cut at Pallas in Germany. It sounds pretty good too. Standing just behind it in the 'H' section is another copy of Herbie Hancock's "Takin' Off" LP with the original cover art from the Wax Love label for $19.97. Hey it's $4 cheaper. Get that one, right?

Wax Love did not get a license from Universal so you have no idea what source is used but what the heck, it saves you $4, so that's all that matters.

As I said, in the not too distant past, these records were much harder to find. You almost always had to go mail order because most reputable dealers wouldn't even carry these things. No so today.

[JSngry]

Half Price is full of that shit, the LPs OIO with phony covers that don't even try to pretend and shit, and I'm like, really...