Bad news from Mosaic

[J.A.W.]

That's so 20th century ...

With current technical means, it would easily be possible to offer lossless downloads (even in higher resolution that CDs), together with high quality downloads of artwork that could be more voluminous and include high quality scans of pictures, because there are no booklet limitations any more.

Those "destroyed" Selects will continue to be distributed worldwide, but as illegal downloads.

If you want to see what's currently possible along these lines, go to Pristine Classical. They offer lossless FLAC downloads in either 16 bit (CD quality), 16 bit ambient stereo or 24 bit (studio quality) formats along with dowloadable artwork, track listings and commentaries. I've purchased a half a dozen of their recordings in 16 bit FLAC and they are very nice.

Up over and out.

That's Andrew Rose's website, the guy whose pre-war blues remasters, sourced from MP3, are controversial, to say the least. Last year his work was discussed on Blindman's Blues Forum. I listened to several of his blues samples and hated the sound. Give me Yazoo and John Tefteller's Blues Images CDs anytime!

Edited September 10, 2009 by J.A.W.

[Big Al]

Mosaic will not sell copies.

Dogma doesn't answer the question.

A copy of the CD is, when done right, a bit-for-bit copy. It's exact. It cannot be distinguished from a first generation CD. So I'll ask again: what's holding them back here?

Which part of "Mosaic will not sell copies" don't you understand?

The part that makes no sense. It's like saying "Mosaic will not sell CDs made on Mondays or Thursdays". It's absurd. The first generation CDs are just as much copies as the second generation CDs. So my question is WHY does Mosaic "not sell copies"? (I swear, my last post on this question. Don't want this thread degenerating into some silly flamewar. But I'm honestly curious.)

Just speculating here, but with Mosaic, it's so much more than the music: it's an entire package. Mosaic doesn't make the booklets or keep extras in stock, and they don't print the artwork on the disc. Yes, Mosaic could logically make their own CDs and sell those, but that's exactly what sets them apart from the Lonehills and the other "budget-minded" companies: Mosaic is selling a package, and the discs are but a small part of that package.

I don't know, perhaps Mosaic could open a separate branch for downloads only. Call it Mosaic Online or something. Lossless FLACs of past sets available for a limited time, with options to purchase/download pdfs of the booklets. No different than what Verve does. THAT, it seems, would be a legitimate revenue-generator as well as maintaining the high standards that Mosaic has set for itself. Just thinking out loud here. Hell, may as well send this idea to Mosaic; if they respond, I'll post it here.

[J.A.W.]

I don't know, perhaps Mosaic could open a separate branch for downloads only. Call it Mosaic Online or something. Lossless FLACs of past sets available for a limited time, with options to purchase/download pdfs of the booklets. No different than what Verve does. THAT, it seems, would be a legitimate revenue-generator as well as maintaining the high standards that Mosaic has set for itself. Just thinking out loud here. Hell, may as well send this idea to Mosaic; if they respond, I'll post it here.

Provided their licensors will allow them to do so.

[Dan Gould]

Past sets are no longer legally licensed from the rights holders and therefore cannot be legally sold as FLAC downloads.

[J.A.W.]

Past sets are no longer legally licensed from the rights holders and therefore cannot be legally sold as FLAC downloads.

Correct. I get the impression that posters here forget that.

[ejp626]

Past sets are no longer legally licensed from the rights holders and therefore cannot be legally sold as FLAC downloads.

Correct. I get the impression that posters here forget that.

That's different from whether they could sell FLACs going forward.

Furthermore, EMI (or at least the pressing plant it subcontracted to) clearly violated Mosaic's agreement with regards to the Selects and big boxes by destroying the masters to sets that were still under license. I find it fairly incredible that Mosaic had such a weak contract that they apparently get no compensation from this or at the very least cannot force the pressing plant to create new masters. Under those circumstances, I would certainly have my lawyers approach EMI and say that one way to make Mosaic whole would be to allow FLAC sales of this material during the remainder of the license period.

In fact, the longer they take to attempt such a thing, the more likely that the holier-than-thou jazz blogs will start offering the stuff for free on the basis that there is no legal way to purchase the material anyway.

[mellowT]

Past sets are no longer legally licensed from the rights holders and therefore cannot be legally sold as FLAC downloads.

Correct. I get the impression that posters here forget that.

That's different from whether they could sell FLACs going forward.

Furthermore, EMI (or at least the pressing plant it subcontracted to) clearly violated Mosaic's agreement with regards to the Selects and big boxes by destroying the masters to sets that were still under license. I find it fairly incredible that Mosaic had such a weak contract that they apparently get no compensation from this or at the very least cannot force the pressing plant to create new masters. Under those circumstances, I would certainly have my lawyers approach EMI and say that one way to make Mosaic whole would be to allow FLAC sales of this material during the remainder of the license period.

In fact, the longer they take to attempt such a thing, the more likely that the holier-than-thou jazz blogs will start offering the stuff for free on the basis that there is no legal way to purchase the material anyway.

Good points. However, if they can't afford to place the Jazz Crusader's set back into print after nearly a year's time, I doubt they can afford a lawyer.

[Rooster_Ties]

This could be nothing but speculation, but FYI, this is a post on the same topic over at the Steve Hoffman forums...

source

This would be the EMI Music Group - the parent company of such labels as Capitol, Blue Note, Virgin et al. Their contract with Cinram (the company which EMI used prior to this) expired in mid-2009 (they had a five-year contract with Cinram after they closed down their own Jacksonville, IL CD manufacturing plant), and are now switching their CD production to the same primary company now used by the Universal Music Group labels. And when a company switches manufacturers in the middle of a limited audiophile run, the glass CD masters are destroyed rather than sent to the new plant. This forces whomever mastered the audiophile editions to make a new transfer with the exact same quality and care - something that's not economically feasible.

[Fred]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Edited September 10, 2009 by Fred

[rdavenport]

I just ordered the Curtis Amy via a US-based Amazon marketplace seller. It's at the same price as from Mosaic, but because of Amazon's set shipping charges ($2.00 for CDs, whether singles or enormous box sets), it worked out cheaper. That said, I wonder if they actually have it in stock...

[king ubu]

ok, got a mail a few minutes ago... all they still have aside for me is the Duke Pearson... will have them hold it and think of something to add to the order.

* * *

the good news is that (in my message yesterday I did ask about it) they told me that the other backorder sets (I specifically mentioned these ones, all of which I want to get eventually: Jazz Crusaders, Jay & Kai, Chu Berry, Lionel Hampton, Herman

Columbia, Sonny Stitt and Parker) would be available again by the end of the year.

Now that's a relief indeed! Maily in the case of the Crusaders and the Stitt, which come from the EMI family as well (the Jay & Kai, btw, is the single disc).

I really hope there won't be more such devastating news to come!

[king ubu]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

[J.A.W.]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

You're right, Mosaic's not to blame and Cindy is doing a really great job.

[Ron S]

Cindy

[J.A.W.]

Cindy

Errr... She might be reading this

[djcavanagh]

I managed to get the Pearson, Amy and Carmell Jones, all of which seem to be available still, but was too late to get the Jazz Trios. Tried to add the Tony Williams to my order (I wouldn't have had to pay extra for shipping) but they are just too efficient and had already shipped the order.

I agree that no-one should be blaming Mosaic. The customer service has always been exceptional and, as somone else noted above, I'm sure that this is much more upsetting for them than it is for any of us.

[JETman]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

You're right, Mosaic's not to blame and Cindy is doing a really great job.

So did Anne Osso. Whatever happened to her?

[J.A.W.]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

You're right, Mosaic's not to blame and Cindy is doing a really great job.

So did Anne Osso. Whatever happened to her?

No idea.

[JETman]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

You're right, Mosaic's not to blame and Cindy is doing a really great job.

So did Anne Osso. Whatever happened to her?

No idea.

She did Cindy's job in the 90s (and maybe the early 00s).

[Ron S]

Cindy

Errr... She might be reading this

I hope so! I think we all love Cindy.

[J.A.W.]

I'm very disappointed. I ordered the Dinah Washington set only minutes after the sad news from Mosaic, and received a regular receipt from them. This evening, I had this email from them:

"We are in receipt of your order for which we thank you very much.

Unfortunately, the Dinah Washington CD set is sold out. It is no longer

available.

We apologize for any inconveniences caused to you. Your order has

now been cancelled. You were not charged for this order."

This is the very first time Mosaic do a similiar bad business: I have about 100 box sets (and several selects and singles). Anyone had a similar misadventure?

Well, it seems that except for the Pearson, it took only a few minutes for all of these to sell out... there's no reason to hold this against Mosaic! I sent them a mail within a few minutes as well, I got a kind reply (as always) but I guess they were flooded with orders and mails and they being such a small company - two or three people? or just Cindy being at the office regularly? It's always she who answers my mail concerning orders, and she's always been perfectly polite and on several occasions extremely kind to me.

You're right, Mosaic's not to blame and Cindy is doing a really great job.

So did Anne Osso. Whatever happened to her?

No idea.

She did Cindy's job in the 90s (and maybe the early 00s).

I know, but I think she left in the 1990s. Cindy's been doing the job since then - if I remember correctly.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I am pretty sure Mosaic had to let Anne go a few years back. They cut back to just Cindy, with Scott taking over when she goes on break.

[J.A.W.]

I am pretty sure Mosaic had to let Anne go a few years back. They cut back to just Cindy, with Scott taking over when she goes on break.

I guess you're right. There was another lady, I think it was back in the 1990s, who left to start a family. I don't remember her name, but I do remember sending her a card at the time to congratulate her and thank her for her excellent service.

Edited September 10, 2009 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

Gee, we all do love Mosaic, don't we?

[mellowT]

Cindy

Errr... She might be reading this

I hope so! I think we all love Cindy.

I certainly do. (Don't tell my wife!)