Self taught saxophone (or other instruments) players in jazz

[Rasputin]

Tim Berne?

Tim Berne is interesting for the fact that he was rather a late bloomer, like the above mentioned Wally Shoup... Ben Webster also took the sax at 20, Wayne Shorter and James Moody at 16 or so.

I remembered another one: Sergey Letov. He is a russian baritone player, heading the first post-soviet sax quartet...

[Niko]

as someone who has fooled around with a saxophone/clarinet for almost twenty years without significant progress (and with formal instructions), i would guess that a genius who knows what he wants to do can easily get the necessities together within a year and the rest within a second year... one moment i remember very well was when (at 16 after almost ten years of playing) i understood that playing stuff that doesn't sound good isn't necessary, that you can play everything that's in the sheet music in a way that it sounds good (to me); i guess others would have known that from day one

Edited September 13, 2009 by Niko

[Д.Д.]

I remembered another one: Sergey Letov. He is a russian baritone player, heading the first post-soviet sax quartet...

Letov is academically trained.

[Quasimado]

I once went to a local jazz recital here in Japan where the featured musician opened by lying on the floor with his soprano (saxophone). (Very) slowly he rose to a kneeling position, and proceeded to breath loudly into the mouthpiece while making fluttering sounds with the pads/keys. I retired to the bar about this time...

He didn't blow a note, but impressed some members of the audience with his sincerity. I believe he was self taught...

(True story).

Q

[Rasputin]

as someone who has fooled around with a saxophone/clarinet for almost twenty years without significant progress (and with formal instructions), i would guess that a genius who knows what he wants to do can easily get the necessities together within a year and the rest within a second year... one moment i remember very well was when (at 16 after almost ten years of playing) i understood that playing stuff that doesn't sound good isn't necessary, that you can play everything that's in the sheet music in a way that it sounds good (to me); i guess others would have known that from day one

Yeah, I must say that from listening to folks who try make decent first notes, or play the g major scale- it's not that easy...(funny how one forgets this first steps)... Too much mouth-piece and you're out of tune. Too little and you have no control. Those reed instruments, ah? At least we don't have to deal with harmonies like polyphonic instruments do

I remembered another one: Sergey Letov. He is a russian baritone player, heading the first post-soviet sax quartet...

Letov is academically trained.

Really? I've read something about this, but with no details. I know that he studies engineering (pretty much like 99% of all Russians back in the days) and that he took his first steps as self tuaught at 24. In an interview with him he wrote about the collaboation with Slava Ganelin, and how he felt uneasy playing the stuff the academy-educated pianist composed.

I once went to a local jazz recital here in Japan where the featured musician opened by lying on the floor with his soprano (saxophone). (Very) slowly he rose to a kneeling position, and proceeded to breath loudly into the mouthpiece while making fluttering sounds with the pads/keys. I retired to the bar about this time...

He didn't blow a note, but impressed some members of the audience with his sincerity. I believe he was self taught...

(True story).

Q

There's Karou Abe. Don't know about being self taught but he is one of the most difficult musicians I've heared. Not sure what to do with him...

[AllenLowe]

I would add to this discussion that if you want to teach yourself how to be a jazz musician you should start at the piano and play a note and figure out every chord that has that note in it -

eg. C (Bb7/9, Ab7, Eb6, D7, F, C DbMaj7)

now you has jazz.

[Niko]

Yeah, I must say that from listening to folks who try make decent first notes, or play the g major scale- it's not that easy...(funny how one forgets this first steps)... Too much mouth-piece and you're out of tune. Too little and you have no control. Those reed instruments, ah? At least we don't have to deal with harmonies like polyphonic instruments do

another moment i will never forget was figuring how improvising worked ( ) playing the g minor scale up and down...

i've seen people take those first few steps in extremely brief time, especially on saxophone... the single greatest moment in my brief history of leading a big band was giving all the alto solos to the 12 year old guy which drove the other alto player (who was 19) mad, but it sure was the right decision, musically...

german jazz based entertainer helge schneider is self taught on most of his instruments (all but piano and cello) i believe... but obviously he didn't come out of nowhere

(tenor sax, one of the few tenor players of his generation who really listened to dony byas etc, obviously)

(piano with jimmy woode on bass...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8AgLsCi07I (trumpet)

(guitar)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLrL_hZqEd8 (vibraphone and organ)

Edited September 14, 2009 by Niko

[Rasputin]

I would add to this discussion that if you want to teach yourself how to be a jazz musician you should start at the piano and play a note and figure out every chord that has that note in it -

eg. C (Bb7/9, Ab7, Eb6, D7, F, C DbMaj7)

now you has jazz.

I myself study with a teacher- it's basically called a music academy but in fact its pretty much the equivelant of the music programs in the states- there are instrument lessons, theory, music history and I tiik basic composition... It's great but I really feel discouraged because it seems that jazz is so academic this days- like classical music. What ever happend to just take an instrument, know the changes and blow the notes that seemed fit..

When I hear my fellow students (most of them of course are about 5 years younger then I am) I find it amazing that there are jazz musicians at all. One thing is to know how to play technically Bach or even Ravel, but the stuff that a jazz cat needs- theory, ear training, piano skills etc... Insane... That's why I find self taught players so inspiring.

Yeah, I must say that from listening to folks who try make decent first notes, or play the g major scale- it's not that easy...(funny how one forgets this first steps)... Too much mouth-piece and you're out of tune. Too little and you have no control. Those reed instruments, ah? At least we don't have to deal with harmonies like polyphonic instruments do

another moment i will never forget was figuring how improvising worked ( ) playing the g minor scale up and down...

i've seen people take those first few steps in extremely brief time, especially on saxophone... the single greatest moment in my brief history of leading a big band was giving all the alto solos to the 12 year old guy which drove the other alto player (who was 19) mad, but it sure was the right decision, musically...

german jazz based entertainer helge schneider is self taught on most of his instruments (all but piano and cello) i believe... but obviously he didn't come out of nowhere

(tenor sax, one of the few tenor players of his generation who really listened to dony byas etc, obviously)

(piano with jimmy woode on bass...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8AgLsCi07I (trumpet)

(guitar)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLrL_hZqEd8 (vibraphone and organ)

Thanks for the add!