Don Cherry and Other People Who Have Played with Everyone

[ep1str0phy]

As far as I can tell, Don Cherry was the only person to work on record with Ornette, Coltrane, Cecil Taylor, Sun Ra, and Albert Ayler. He also played with (leaving a lot out):

Muhal Richard Abrams, Billy Bang, Gato Barbieri, Han Bennink, Tim Berne, Arthur Blythe, Lester Bowie, Peter Brotzmann, Carla Bley, Paul Bley, Willem Breuker, Tom Cora, Johnny Dyani, Chico Freeman, Fred Frith, Gunter Hampel, Al Heath, Fred Van Hove, Bobby Hutcherson, Abdullah Ibrahim, Leroy Jenkins, Steve Lacy, Oliver Lake, Prince Lasha, Yusef Lateef, George Lewis, Jaki Liebezeit, Charles Moffett, Tete Montoliu, J.C. Moses, Famoudou Don Moye, Sunny Murray, Gary Peacock, Buschi Niebergall, Makaya Ntshoko, Jim Pepper, Dudu Pukwana, Dewey Redman, Lou Reed, Sonny Rollins, Aldo Romano, Charlie Rouse, Roswell Rudd, George Russell, Phaorah Sanders, Alexander Von Schlippenbach, Manfred Schoof, Archie Shepp, Sonny Simmons, John Stevens, John Tchicai, Okay Temiz, Trevor Watts, Eberhard Weber, Norma Winstone, Frank Zappa, John Zorn

I don't think he actually played on the Penderecki piece on Actions, correct me if I'm wrong. I left a lot out and probably missed quite a few, but this might be the most impressive cross-section of "creative music" pioneers any one person has played with, post-1960 to like the 80's, that I can think of. Between Cherry, Haden, and Higgins, I think you have most avenues of jazz-derived improv flat out covered: most hard bop/post-bop pioneers, almost all of the initial waves of free jazz, members of the AACM, BAG, UGMAA, CBA... all the way up to avant-rock and Haden appearing on Odelay.

Can anyone think of anyone who has played with this many "big" people? Who was Cherry's equivalent in preceding generations? I can also imagine in, say, rock or free improv avenues, Fred Frith or Derek Bailey may have as impressive a resume.

[JSngry]

George Duvivier

[Chuck Nessa]

Not many sessions but I put forth Garvin Bushell. He recorded with Jelly Roll Morton and John Coltrane (at the Vanguard). Pretty damn amazing.

[JSngry]

Roy Haynes?

[mikelz777]

Oscar Peterson has played with quite a roster of greats.

[Chuck Nessa]

Oscar Peterson has played with quite a roster of greats.

Not really the point.

[Chalupa]

There's a local drummer named Butch Ballard who played & recorded w/ Fats Waller, Armstrong, Ellington, & Basie!!! He'll be 91 in December. And the cat still plays out.

Check it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Ballard

[ep1str0phy]

Ballard played with Coltrane, too! Very impressive.

I hadn't really thought of Duvivier, but for sheer volume, he's on a lot of sessions, playing with a lot of people.

[Guy Berger]

My hunch is that the "list" would be dominated by drummers and bassists. Anybody else think so?

[mjzee]

My hunch is that the "list" would be dominated by drummers and bassists. Anybody else think so?

I agree. They also seem to live the longest.

[ep1str0phy]

That would make sense--but could you think of someone other than Cherry who's as dominant in that area of creative music? It's actually kind of weird.

For example: as far as drummers are concerned, I think the only one to have recorded with Cecil, Ornette, and Coltrane is Elvin Jones. Maybe it's because the role of the rhythm section became so specialized at the advent of free jazz; the "genre" was so dispersed that it was more difficult for personnel to transfer (I can think of a few rhythm section players, like Henry Grimes, who are sort-of exceptions to that rule, though).

[Niko]

i found ray draper's list pretty impressive, notably given that he's one of those where you might think he hardly had a career at all (counting sideman of recordings where he was a sideman, concert announcements, everything...)

Jackie McLean, Donald Byrd, John Coltrane, Max Roach, Don Cherry, Horace Tapscott, Archie Shepp, Brother Jack McDuff, Dr. John, Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Howard Johnson, Sun Ra (and cohorts), Lionel Hampton, Mal Waldron, Ben Dixon, Philly Joe Jones, George Coleman, John Duke, George Braith, Pete LaRoca, dizzy gillespie, buddy de franco, benny carter, gerry mulligan, sonny rollins, johnny dyani, okay temiz, jimmy garrison, dave burrell, walter davis jr, graham bond, joe beck, randy brecker, bu pleasant, dick griffin, mike mainieri, don sleet, vincent mcewan, sean levitt, olu dara, booker little, stu brotman, maria muldaur, kenneth terroade, big black, quincy jones, sonny criss, tommy flannagan, al mckibbon, conte candoli, teddy edwards, sabir mateen

____________________

just in case anybody owns this album by cathy chamberlain's rag and roll revue and could look up on which tunes draper plays (on only one, or tuba on all, baritone saxophone on only one... that might give another bunch of names like eddie bert, joe farrell and louis metcalf...)

some info here:

http://gumboyaya.rakurakuhp.net/i_344629.htm

so in terms of "creative music" there is basically an early association with john coltrane (and an even earlier one with george braith...), two times with tapscott in the late sixties and in the late seventies, a time in europe around 1968 where he played with terroade, shepp and cherry, a mid seventies recording with shepp, and an early eighties association with sun ra (for about a year it said somewhere) - but of course tuba players are hard to substitute...

Edited September 3, 2009 by Niko

[king ubu]

how about Dave Amram?

from AMG, among others:

Kenny Dorham, Lionel Hampton, Oscar Pettiford, Curtis Fuller, Allen Ginsberg, David Bromberg, Hannibal Marvin Petrson, Mary Lou Williams, Betty Carter, T.S. Monk, Pete Seeger, Jack Kerouac, Lawrence Ferlinghetti...

I'm sure AMG isn't nearly complete there... Bobby Jaspar is an artist I have Amran on disc with, in a sort of third stream-ish ensemble. He also performed with Mingus, George Barrow, the New York Philharmonic, various Latin bands...

Not sure he quite fits the bill, but Niko's mention of Draper sort of led me to Amram.

The only guy I immediately thought of when reading the thread title has been mentioned by Chuck above, Garvin Bushell.

[Rosco]

I may have imagineered this, but I seem to recall seeing a gig on TV of Cherry and a bunch of other trumpet players with Sarah Vaughan.

(What is the collective noun for trumpet players?)

[Hot Ptah]

Richard Davis has played with more greats than Don Cherry:

http://richarddavis.org/bio/disc.htm

The list of his albums is too long to post in full here.

[Free For All]

For example: as far as drummers are concerned, I think the only one to have recorded with Cecil, Ornette, and Coltrane is Elvin Jones.

Billy Higgins also recorded with those three. I'd think he would be a strong candidate for this thread.

[B. Clugston]

Richard Davis has played with more greats than Don Cherry:

http://richarddavis.org/bio/disc.htm

The list of his albums is too long to post in full here.

I was going to mention him. Like Cherry, he played with straight ahead and out players and has a few rawk credits, not to mention classical as well.

[ep1str0phy]

Damn, you're right... Higgins did record with Coltrane (albeit not in the "classic" quartet context that I had originally been thinking of).

Richard Davis's recorded legacy definitely stops just outside of the mainstream; I think he's one of those voices who would be really effective in a more idiomatically free context (like, for example, playing with Brotzmann), but for whatever reason just hasn't gone in that direction too fervently. I am always surprised, however, when I consider he recorded with AACM guys in the Creative Construction Company.

Not on record, but didn't Richard Davis very temporarily hold the bass chair in Miles's 2nd quintet? For that matter, wasn't he in Coltrane's group at some point (in lieu of Garrison)?

[AmirBagachelles]

Nothing to quantify here, but Max Roach, Roy Haynes, and Art Blakey each seems to have played with all the great mid to late 20th century players.

[B. Clugston]

Damn, you're right... Higgins did record with Coltrane (albeit not in the "classic" quartet context that I had originally been thinking of).

Richard Davis's recorded legacy definitely stops just outside of the mainstream; I think he's one of those voices who would be really effective in a more idiomatically free context (like, for example, playing with Brotzmann), but for whatever reason just hasn't gone in that direction too fervently. I am always surprised, however, when I consider he recorded with AACM guys in the Creative Construction Company.

Not on record, but didn't Richard Davis very temporarily hold the bass chair in Miles's 2nd quintet? For that matter, wasn't he in Coltrane's group at some point (in lieu of Garrison)?

Richard Davis did sub for Ron Carter on occasion with Miles Davis, including 1966 in Portland.

[B. Clugston]

A very short sample of Davis' credits: Compulsion, Born To Run, Astral Weeks, Out To Lunch, Creative Construction Company, Color Me Barbra

[ep1str0phy]

Well, if you put it that way...

[Rooster_Ties]

Herbie and Wayne come to mind.

Inside, outside, in between, you name it (and lots of all it) -- plus quite a number of pop contexts (both R&B and "jazz-lite" oriented stuff (like Steely Dan), and even more dance or "adult contemporary" stuff, i.e. with Duran Duran (Herbie), and Don Hendley (Wayne)), studio work on pop 60's pop dates (Herbie at least, probably not Wayne), and even advertising (at least some by Herbie that's undocumented, or at least way under-documented).

Can't begin to name all the people they've worked with, but if I'm understanding the comparison with specifically with Cherry, then I think both Herbie and Wayne kinda come pretty close.

[Ted O'Reilly]

George Duvivier

I'll see your Duvivier and raise you a Milt Hinton...

[Hot Ptah]

Damn, you're right... Higgins did record with Coltrane (albeit not in the "classic" quartet context that I had originally been thinking of).

Richard Davis's recorded legacy definitely stops just outside of the mainstream; I think he's one of those voices who would be really effective in a more idiomatically free context (like, for example, playing with Brotzmann), but for whatever reason just hasn't gone in that direction too fervently. I am always surprised, however, when I consider he recorded with AACM guys in the Creative Construction Company.

Not on record, but didn't Richard Davis very temporarily hold the bass chair in Miles's 2nd quintet? For that matter, wasn't he in Coltrane's group at some point (in lieu of Garrison)?

Richard Davis performed and recorded often in avant garde contexts. He performed regularly with Sun Ra in the late 1940s in Calumet City, Illinois--they were the duo musical accompaniment in a strip club. He then played with the Sun Ra All Stars on their early 1980s European tour.

He knew and played with Muhal Richard Abrams before Abrams was known to anyone.

He recorded and performed often with Eric Dolphy and has spoken of his close musical and personal rapport with Dolphy ("Out To Lunch", the Five Spot recordings, and the famous duets). He recorded with Andrew Hill on some of his first Blue Note albums, with Sam Rivers, John Carter, David Murray, Roscoe Mitchell. I saw him perform with Roscoe Mitchell in 1981. He was very effective and comfortable in a free context.

He plays on the first cut of the silver "Jazz Composers Orchestra" double LP.

When I took a jazz history class from him, he described how he and the other free players in New York welcomed Leon Thomas when he first came to town, "because we all said, 'finally, here's our freedom singer.'"

He also told our class that he was offered the permanent bass chair in the Miles Davis Quintet, but that his first wife did not want him to travel out of New York much, so he turned it down. He did sub in Miles' group sometimes, and appears on the Portland State University recording which seems to circulate, however much of a bootleg it is.

What is interesting to me about Richard is how he is also very effective with Johnny Hodges, Ben Webster, Earl Hines, and other swing era musicians, and on rock and pop dates, and on classical pieces (as on his CD, "Reminisces", and the famous appearance with Stravinsky). I think that some of his rock appearances were on albums which have become part of boomer nostalgia/mythology, and have tended to be overemphasized in a discussion of his career.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Hot Ptah