Stomp Off, Let's Go...

[Harold_Z]

This board lost a valuable and knowledgeble contributor when Chris stopped posting here. Someone with first hand knowledge - not repeating what he's read in books or magazines, but someone who actually was there. I love his blog and I wish he would return and post here also.

[Chuck Nessa]

I did a poll to settle this once and for all:

free jazz players and lovers:

76% Democrats

18% Republicas

4 % Jim Jones Followers

1% Tristano-ites

1% The Church of Nessa

Dixielanders:

104% Republicans

12% Libertarians

.878 % Beastialilty Party

Beboppers

76% Drug addicts

22& More drug addicts

2% Sex addicts

Bass Players

65% Don't Vote

35% Didn't Understand the Question

Thank god I have 1%. I wonder where those folks are when I check my accounts.

If I played bass I might pass after a rehearsal.

[GregK]

Not the most idiotic thing I've ever read on this forum, not by a long shot...

Ok, but is it defensible? I mean come on, can anyone really say this forum is being "taken over" by all these right-wing rednecks? You gotta be kidding me...

Edited August 24, 2009 by GregK

[Chuck Nessa]

Everyone needs to relax.

[Quincy]

Didn't he do something like this before? Unless my memory is playing tricks (entirely possible) I seem to recall him getting mad about something, leaving angrily, then apparently deciding to let bygones be bygones and coming back. So it could happen again. Maybe.

I think he left once over having some NY Times article moved into the political forum where he didn't think it belonged which he felt was censorship since only members can go there. I could be wrong, though it sounds like the kind of thing can lead to 15 page threads here. I thought it odd that he left because of goings on in the political forum, whereas many of the other boards that he would then try to settle into after leaving organissimo disallowed politics for discussion. It just didn't seem like he could be happy in such places. Or anywhere except his own court apparently. In a way perhaps a good thing that he stomped off, as now his remembrances are even longer and more elaborately formatted. He is a mighty fine storyteller with a knack for incorporating the visuals. I guess if he has problems with censorship at his blog we'll know he has a Arctor/Fred problem ala A Scanner Darkly.

[ghost of miles]

The Church of Nessa speaketh wisely.

And now for some music as we exit the service:

[JSngry]

Nah, that Coal Train guy always edges me up...

If this is REAL church, we not gettin' out until after dark...so...

[mjzee]

Right. I discovered Chris' new blog a couple of weeks ago and what a treat it is. I sure miss his presence on this site. The right wing rednecks who seem intent on taking over Organissimo have become a huge pain in the ass. I really can't understand people who hold those views listening to jazz. The very idea is oxymoronic. Most of the musicians I've talked to over the years seemed pretty apolitical but I doubt that many - Lionel Hampton being the only exception I can think of - ever voted Republican.

I request that this obnoxious post be moved to the Political forum.

[catesta]

Right. I discovered Chris' new blog a couple of weeks ago and what a treat it is. I sure miss his presence on this site. The right wing rednecks who seem intent on taking over Organissimo have become a huge pain in the ass. I really can't understand people who hold those views listening to jazz. The very idea is oxymoronic. Most of the musicians I've talked to over the years seemed pretty apolitical but I doubt that many - Lionel Hampton being the only exception I can think of - ever voted Republican.

Give it a rest. You posted pretty much the same damn thing back in July.

Sad news. Cronkite always was a newsman with integrity.

And welcome back, Chris. We've really missed you. This board has been a bust since you left. I get so tired of reading the rantings of the handful of rednecks that seem intent on taking over Organissimo. I just can't get my head around the idea of rabid right wingers listening to jazz. Seems like an oxymoron to me

[JSngry]

He is right about the musicians though.

[Aggie87]

He is right about the musicians though.

I don't think anybody here seems to be objecting to that part.

[JSngry]

Well, when the whole post is quoted and disagreed with as a bulk entity, you can't be too sure...

And since I disagreed with Mr. Brown, I thought I should clarify which point it was with which I disagreed.

Hell, I've never voted for Republican, and would rather die naked in church than to do so, but I have many friends and/or loved ones who have, and a fair number of them are jazz fans to one degree or another.

But all of the jazz musicians I've known have been either a-political (as in "they all suck"), liberal-to-radical Democrats-to-Whatever Hard Left Party There Is At The Moment, or else stark raving Libertarians. But no Republicans.

Now, society band leaders, that's another story!

[kenny weir]

Now, society band leaders, that's another story!

Gosh ... aren't they musicians, too?

[JSngry]

Only sometimes...

[EKE BBB]

Could anybody stop the stupid political rant and talk about Chris' jazz blog?

[gmonahan]

Well, when the whole post is quoted and disagreed with as a bulk entity, you can't be too sure...

And since I disagreed with Mr. Brown, I thought I should clarify which point it was with which I disagreed.

Hell, I've never voted for Republican, and would rather die naked in church than to do so, but I have many friends and/or loved ones who have, and a fair number of them are jazz fans to one degree or another.

But all of the jazz musicians I've known have been either a-political (as in "they all suck"), liberal-to-radical Democrats-to-Whatever Hard Left Party There Is At The Moment, or else stark raving Libertarians. But no Republicans.

Now, society band leaders, that's another story!

I'm trying REAL hard not to visualize that naked in church part.

greg mo

[RDK]

The right wing rednecks who seem intent on taking over Organissimo

What, all 2 or 3 of them?

edit: never mind, I see it's been covered.

Edited August 25, 2009 by RDK

[Big Beat Steve]

Could anybody stop the stupid political rant and talk about Chris' jazz blog?

OK, so let's talk about the blog.

I am one of those who bookmarked it too after having found the link here, and I find it very interesting reading and I'll be looking forward to further articles that might appear there.

However, there are other aspects that make this reading a bit uneasy and also unsettling for me. I really appreciated Chris A's contributions here on this board and at AAJ (despite some incidents there that were uncalled for) and did regret his departure from Organissimo (and I really haven't figured out completely what the REAL reason and sequence of events was that led to his departure - one says so, the other says the opposite, oh my ...). But what I did not appreciate ONE BIT is the way he not only left the forum but also took his own writings with him (cf. in the "I Came Across ..." threads that really were impressive glimpses at jazz history that for the history-minded reader ideally filled in gaps to complete what could be found elsewhere). Now if you do not wish to visit the park anymore, fine ... But if you insist on not only leaving the park but destroying a good deal of the trees that others strolling through the park would still have liked to look at (and that at one time were dear enough for you to have planted them)? Punish everybody for your disagreement with a scant handful?

Making sure nobody else can get anything out of it if you cannot have it all your own way? Is this really all mature? I'll leave that up to else individual to judge.

And this is why, no matter how hard I try, some uneasy feeling did creep up when reading writings from the very same person who saw fit to act in such a manner on this forum. Who is the person behind those writings and what are his motivations in such public statements?

Maybe it all is because in this internet world I've discovered (and learned to appreciate) forums a long time before that blog thing. Forums can benefit immensely from dialogs and mutual interaction and exchange of ideas, whereas blogs tend to become more of a "one man's showcase". (I've seen it on other blogs where bloggers have started drooling about their own greatness and I have therefore become a little bit wary)

I distinctly try to suppress and rule out those feelings but honestly, it sometimes isn't easy, especially in the case of topics that revolve around the apparently ongoing concern of "who is fit to act as a keeper of the keys to the shrine of jazz history memorabilia" (cf. that Billie Holiday thing on the blog, and it also was a subject on this forum here). I'll freely admit that this issue is a touchy one and I do understand some may feel bitter about such objects disappearing in collections not accessible to the interested public (or only against horrendous fees) but if this issue is such a hot one and one where one finds that things are at fault then why does one have to withdraw what's been made publicly accessible on this forum and thereby act in exactly the same manner? This just doesn't add up.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Big Beat Steve

[Niko]

i feel a blog suits chris much better than a thread on a board... and a lot of the deleted stuff has already come back on the blog and i hope one day the ray draper material will also reappear in expanded form...

day one without seeing the political forum for me - easily recommended! when in need of a cheap joke i've said "americans treat the words liberal and leftist as synonyms" a number of times lately, everybody finds it funny, so thanks for that...

[A Lark Ascending]

when in need of a cheap joke i've said "americans treat the words liberal and leftist as synonyms" a number of times lately, everybody finds it funny, so thanks for that...

I'm always amused by how the word 'liberal' takes on a negative connotation when crossing The Pond. In the UK it's a term of praise, suggesting open-mindedness, tolerance.

Chris seems to have had such a fascinating life that he deserves a blog of his own. The things he put up here were inevitably buried in the board; hopefully a lot more people will stumble on the blog.

[EKE BBB]

Big Beat Steve:

I understand your feelings about the way Chris left this board, but it shouldn't eclipse (at least it doesn't, for me) his invaluable contributions to jazz and the innate interest of his new blog.

Regards,

Agustín

Edited August 25, 2009 by EKE BBB

[Bright Moments]

Could anybody stop the stupid political rant and talk about Chris' jazz blog?

OK, so let's talk about the blog.

I am one of those who bookmarked it too after having found the link here, and I find it very interesting reading and I'll be looking forward to further articles that might appear there.

However, there are other aspects that make this reading a bit uneasy and also unsettling for me. I really appreciated Chris A's contributions here on this board and at AAJ (despite some incidents there that were uncalled for) and did regret his departure from Organissimo (and I really haven't figured out completely what the REAL reason and sequence of events was that led to his departure - one says so, the other says the opposite, oh my ...). But what I did not appreciate ONE BIT is the way he not only left the forum but also took his own writings with him (cf. in the "I Came Across ..." threads that really were impressive glimpses at jazz history that for the history-minded reader ideally filled in gaps to complete what could be found elsewhere). Now if you do not wish to visit the park anymore, fine ... But if you insist on not only leaving the park but destroying a good deal of the trees that others strolling through the park would still have liked to look at (and that at one time were dear enough for you to have planted them)? Punish everybody for your disagreement with a scant handful?

Making sure nobody else can get anything out of it if you cannot have it all your own way? Is this really all mature? I'll leave that up to else individual to judge.

And this is why, no matter how hard I try, some uneasy feeling did creep up when reading writings from the very same person who saw fit to act in such a manner on this forum. Who is the person behind those writings and what are his motivations in such public statements?

Maybe it all is because in this internet world I've discovered (and learned to appreciate) forums a long time before that blog thing. Forums can benefit immensely from dialogs and mutual interaction and exchange of ideas, whereas blogs tend to become more of a "one man's showcase". (I've seen it on other blogs where bloggers have started drooling about their own greatness and I have therefore become a little bit wary)

I distinctly try to suppress and rule out those feelings but honestly, it sometimes isn't easy, especially in the case of topics that revolve around the apparently ongoing concern of "who is fit to act as a keeper of the keys to the shrine of jazz history memorabilia" (cf. that Billie Holiday thing on the blog, and it also was a subject on this forum here). I'll freely admit that this issue is a touchy one and I do understand some may feel bitter about such objects disappearing in collections not accessible to the interested public (or only against horrendous fees) but if this issue is such a hot one and one where one finds that things are at fault then why does one have to withdraw what's been made publicly accessible on this forum and thereby act in exactly the same manner? This just doesn't add up.

well said!

[AllenLowe]

nonsense - I know Chris well, and I know there is disagreement about what happened when he left here, which I do not wish to revisit - but there is NO QUESTION about not only his fitness and willingness but his ability to care for the kind of physical and psychological memorabilia which make up so much of what we use to document American musical history. I find any speculation to the contrary, about Chris, to be really distasteful and based on second hand knowledge of not only the man but his actions through the years and his honorable (and honorable is really too modest a word) dealings in the music business. As Larry Cohn, the former head of Sony Legacy (he did the Robert Johnson box among many other things) said to me not long ago, Chris is really one of the great men of the business and a man of uncommon decency and constant generiousity. Amen.

Edited August 25, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Big Beat Steve]

In case you're referring to my hint(s), I have no doubt at all that he acts and has been acting in good faith throughout and that this may not always be the case with certain others who've amassed a huge amount of objects pertaining to the history of jazz as well. I just find it irritating that this point of what others may have done is brought up again and again. What good does it do if this point is stressed again and again and again?

From a certain point I just wonder what this picture of "everybody else out there is shortchanging everybody" is intended to prove or show in the long run.

And yet ... this constant generosity (which I really did admire in the way it was shown in those "I came across..." threads here) was marred when those threads vanished into thin air for reasons that, whatever they may have been, were grossly unfair to the vast majority of the forumists here.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Big Beat Steve

[Aggie87]

Forums can benefit immensely from dialogs and mutual interaction and exchange of ideas, whereas blogs tend to become more of a "one man's showcase". (I've seen it on other blogs where bloggers have started drooling about their own greatness and I have therefore become a little bit wary)

This is a point I was alluding to when Chris popped in to advertise his blog here a couple of weeks ago.

edit - That said, Chris' blog has some fascinating recollections and pictures.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Aggie87