How much is enough?

[BeBop]

I'll pose the question by way of examples.

I love Lester Young. If he put out fifty albums (for sake of example) I'd want about 46 of them.

I like Scott Hamilton some too. If he's got a hundred albums, five's probably enough for me. They're so similar as to be nearly indistinguishable. Frankly, I'm probably more interested in his sidemen.

I like Sonny Stitt and Eddie Harris. Give me twenty of them.

Ben Webster? 30.

Archie Shepp? Another 30.

Love Bud Powell. Thirty (out of an assumed 50) is enough here too; he put out some sub-par material. Or perhaps I should say that some of his sub-par material has been released.

Once upon a time, I was a completist with respect to another artist. As I got to the items that were scarce, I began to realize why they were.

So what's your "enough" level?

[Rooster_Ties]

Depends on the artist.

I've got 80% of Joe Henderson's official releases.

But barely 15% of Coltrane's.

(But I *do* have 80% of Ornette's)

Go figure.

It all depends on who speaks to me.

[BeBop]

I don't have any Wynton Marsalis. And yet I feel satisfied. (I think I've got a Messengers album he's on.) I'm not really ragging on Wynton here. I just feel like I can get through life without him.

I've got a half dozen Branfords. I'm a tenor hound. And I especially like the tenor in a duo or trio setting; Branford's got a couple of those.

[Teasing the Korean]

If I really like an artist, I want 100% of the good stuff.

But the percentage of good stuff to the overall output varies greatly, depending on the artist.

[CJ Shearn]

I have more than 30 Miles albums, more than 40 JOS, more than 20 Blakey, about 15 Hubbard's, more than 20 Metheny albums. (including every PMG album, the other 15 are solo projects)

[gmonahan]

If I really take to an artist, I want to hear everything, including the less that perfect stuff, because I want to know him/her artistically. So I guess I am one of those looney completists. You don't want to hear the numbers. You'd conclude that I needed counseling. And you'd probably be right!

greg mo

[medjuck]

I think I have everything available by Gil Evan except some arrangements he did for a Pearl Bailey record. (Can't find it.) I even have his stuff for Johnny Mathis.

That takes up less than one shelf. Virtually everything by Miles takes up two shelfs. On the other hand there's Ellington. I keep telling myself I can't get everything, but then I discover something I ignored is really good. But I swear I'm never getting the Mary Poppins album. Please don't tell me it's really good.

[king ubu]

never enough, i guess...

[Big Beat Steve]

There are some of whom I'll probably never have enough, such as Count Basie. Here I've passed the 50-LP threshold a long time ago, and this essentially only covers the period up to the early to mid-60s.

Others, such as Bird, are essentials so you automatically end up with a lot by them.

And though I am not a completist, I'll certainly add more by some whose discography is a bit more manageable but who are of particular appeal to me - though I already have quite a lot of their recordings, such as Tal Farlow, Louis Jordan, Red Norvo, Clifford Brown, Wardell Gray, Dexter Gordon, or EARLY Miles Davis (i.e. up to the early 60s).

But I'll freely admit I have only a limited number of Coltranes, Mobleys, Morgans. And they will do for me for the time being.

On the other hand, there also are some whose recorded and released works are so prolific that you just end up with a lot of their discs if you regularly make the rounds at the usual secondhand outlets, such as Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman and Stan Kenton. I wouldn't have bought each and every one of their recordings I now own if I had had to pay full price but at clearout sales prices, how can you go wrong? Any all in all I haven't been disappointed.

[king ubu]

To add a bit to my short post: I'm not methodically buying complete outputs by any specific artists, mostly... but I have most of Coltrane's, Davis', Mingus', Monk's recordings, and there are many artists where I have much or most (Mobley, Morgan, Basie, Lunceford in terms of studio sessions, Ellington, Ornette, you name it), or almost all from one part in their career (Hill on Blue Note, Henderson on BN and Milestone, Tyner on Impulse, BN and Milestone, Shepp on Impulse, Jimmy Smith on Blue Note).

Things mostly just kind of stack up and when I see something I don't have, I casually add it to what I have, without looking to fill all the gaps.

There's just always that much more to explore... and that usually applies to both musicians I haven't heard yet or know little of, as well as musicians of whom I have some/many discs... for instance, I only got the Olatunji Concert and Live at the Village Vanguard again CDs by Coltrane recently (haven't even played them so far...)

[A Lark Ascending]

I can get into an intense thing with a performer and buy lots over a short period. Then I'll tire and go somewhere else. But the point normally comes when I'll find my way back and then, as well as listening to what I've got I'll want to add something new.

I've got lots of Monk, Coltrane etc and at this point in time have no need of anything new. But I know that I'll hear a Monk track on Jazz Record Requests at some point, be directed back and then be looking at some of the gaps.

Happened with Miles a couple of months back - a few of the 70s gaps got filled.

[B. Goren.]

never enough, i guess...

[JohnS]

I liked David Murray from the off in 1976. I've been collecting his stuff ever since. Next is Miles.

[sidewinder]

Next is Miles.

Top of my list. I think I have all of his stuff on LP and CD (and most of the boots).

Then it is Blakey, Mobley, Lee Morgan and Wayne Shorter.

I think I only have 1 or 2 of David Murray though.

[king ubu]

Yeah, Murray is someone I haven't started digging into, really... I have five or six of his discs and there seem to be plenty other great ones out there. He might be - like Sonny Stitt, for instance - one of those who simply released too much for most fans to really follow his path? But then I guess the same could be said about Miles... or Oscar Peterson (where I have a fair amount of material now but will likely not buy anything more for some years now).

[JohnS]

Fortunately Murray has slowed up on the new releases over the last few years.

[umum_cypher]

Yeah, Murray is someone I haven't started digging into, really... I have five or six of his discs and there seem to be plenty other great ones out there. He might be - like Sonny Stitt, for instance - one of those who simply released too much for most fans to really follow his path? But then I guess the same could be said about Miles... or Oscar Peterson (where I have a fair amount of material now but will likely not buy anything more for some years now).

I never thought I could have enough Mobley. But then I came by something new the other week and, to my great surprise (and slight regret), I realised I already had enough. The rest is overflow.

[king ubu]

Nah... I miss one of Mobe's albums (Slice Of the Top) and have but a CDR of one of the Monday Night sessions... but somehow it's good like that, because on the day that changes, there won't be any new Mobley to discover for me! That would (will, actually...) be a pretty sad day...

[umum_cypher]

Nah... I miss one of Mobe's albums (Slice Of the Top) and have but a CDR of one of the Monday Night sessions...

Ah, but those aren't part of the overflow.

but somehow it's good like that, because on the day that changes, there won't be any new Mobley to discover for me! That would (will, actually...) be a pretty sad day...

Yeah. Doesn't Woody Allen say somewhere that he envies people who haven't heard Potato Head Blues because it means they can still hear Potato Head Blues for the first time?

[king ubu]

What would be the overflow? The Flip, the date with Eddie Diehl? Mogie's Caramba, Charisma, Taru, Cornbread, which of Blakey's Morgan/Shorter quintet albums, which of Smith's Blue Notes? ... hard to define that, I find, and I usually don't. I rather have most of these, and instead of having least favourites, I have preferred ones (Morgan's The Rajah for instance makes that list, and that would be one of the first choices for "overflow" by most, I assume). I certainly know what you're talking about, but it's not a way of operation I usually chose... too much a completist/searcher, always looking for more... (you know, ok, that might just be an ok album, but hey, I still want it... happened most recently with The Band's albums... thought I might skip Cahoots, Moondog Matinee and Islands, but no, Cahoots has the great title track, Don't Do It, Moondog has that great old-fashioned sound and Garth Hudson on sax on several tunes, and Islands... well, after having all the other albums I just wanted to have it as well, and for sure there are some great songs there... this as a way of explaining how I operate...)

[Swinging Swede]

On the other hand there's Ellington. I keep telling myself I can't get everything, but then I discover something I ignored is really good. But I swear I'm never getting the Mary Poppins album. Please don't tell me it's really good.

Sorry, but here's the AMG review:

This disc is a surprising success. Duke Ellington was somehow persuaded into revising and recording a dozen songs from the score of Walt Disney's Mary Poppins, and the results are actually quite memorable. With such soloists as altoist Johnny Hodges, baritonist Harry Carney, trumpeter Cootie Williams, tenor saxophonist Paul Gonsalves, clarinetist Jimmy Hamilton, and trombonist Lawrence Brown getting their spots, Duke Ellington & His Orchestra turn such songs as "A Spoonful of Sugar," "Chim Chim Cheree" (a much happier version than John Coltrane's), "The Life I Lead," and even "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" into swinging jazz.

[Teasing the Korean]

“If you like ice cream, why stop at one scoop? Have two, have three. Too much is never enough." - Morris Lapidus

[umum_cypher]

What would be the overflow? The Flip, the date with Eddie Diehl? Mogie's Caramba, Charisma, Taru, Cornbread, which of Blakey's Morgan/Shorter quintet albums, which of Smith's Blue Notes? ... hard to define that, I find, and I usually don't. I rather have most of these, and instead of having least favourites, I have preferred ones (Morgan's The Rajah for instance makes that list, and that would be one of the first choices for "overflow" by most, I assume). I certainly know what you're talking about, but it's not a way of operation I usually chose... too much a completist/searcher, always looking for more... (you know, ok, that might just be an ok album, but hey, I still want it... happened most recently with The Band's albums... thought I might skip Cahoots, Moondog Matinee and Islands, but no, Cahoots has the great title track, Don't Do It, Moondog has that great old-fashioned sound and Garth Hudson on sax on several tunes, and Islands... well, after having all the other albums I just wanted to have it as well, and for sure there are some great songs there... this as a way of explaining how I operate...)

Well, the overflow can't be objective of course. And it's not a list of particular records - it's a sense of a personal limit having been reached, the returns having diminished too far. I'm not talking about a run-of-the-mill kind of listening here, the kind where you check out an artist and like them somewhat, but think you've got as much out of them as you're going to after a couple of albums, or like you describe, buying up a lot of records because you know there's good stuff on them all, even if they're not consistent - that kind of casual relationship to an artist's music I probably wouldn't think about in these terms, or at all. I'm talking about the limits of a relationship to music that has been deeply important to you. I'm a searcher too, but searches run their course. Now, if an unlogged Mobley album was dug up and released tomorrow, I'd be ordering it immediately. But dealing with finite bodies of work as we are, for me eventually having the music in your life in a 'new' or fresh way doesn't mean having ever more different (and almost always lesser) recordings, but having again and again, every day, the old stuff in your head and/or other parts of your body because it's so fully internalised. The fact that my internal MP3 player is at this moment running its hundred thousandth playing of The Breakthrough, and in some way animating me as it always does even though I'm not actually hearing it, it is much more of a testament to Mobley in my life now than, say, dutifully listening for the first time to a relatively underwhelming concert bootleg. Of course I want to hear the new stuff, but I may not hunt it down now as much as the old stuff keeps hunting me down. So even if there's overflow, it doesn't mean the cup is not ... well, you see the metaphor.

[king ubu]

What would be the overflow? The Flip, the date with Eddie Diehl? Mogie's Caramba, Charisma, Taru, Cornbread, which of Blakey's Morgan/Shorter quintet albums, which of Smith's Blue Notes? ... hard to define that, I find, and I usually don't. I rather have most of these, and instead of having least favourites, I have preferred ones (Morgan's The Rajah for instance makes that list, and that would be one of the first choices for "overflow" by most, I assume). I certainly know what you're talking about, but it's not a way of operation I usually chose... too much a completist/searcher, always looking for more... (you know, ok, that might just be an ok album, but hey, I still want it... happened most recently with The Band's albums... thought I might skip Cahoots, Moondog Matinee and Islands, but no, Cahoots has the great title track, Don't Do It, Moondog has that great old-fashioned sound and Garth Hudson on sax on several tunes, and Islands... well, after having all the other albums I just wanted to have it as well, and for sure there are some great songs there... this as a way of explaining how I operate...)

Well, the overflow can't be objective of course. And it's not a list of particular records - it's a sense of a personal limit having been reached, the returns having diminished too far. I'm not talking about a run-of-the-mill kind of listening here, the kind where you check out an artist and like them somewhat, but think you've got as much out of them as you're going to after a couple of albums, or like you describe, buying up a lot of records because you know there's good stuff on them all, even if they're not consistent - that kind of casual relationship to an artist's music I probably wouldn't think about in these terms, or at all. I'm talking about the limits of a relationship to music that has been deeply important to you. I'm a searcher too, but searches run their course. Now, if an unlogged Mobley album was dug up and released tomorrow, I'd be ordering it immediately. But dealing with finite bodies of work as we are, for me eventually having the music in your life in a 'new' or fresh way doesn't mean having ever more different (and almost always lesser) recordings, but having again and again, every day, the old stuff in your head and/or other parts of your body because it's so fully internalised. The fact that my internal MP3 player is at this moment running its hundred thousandth playing of The Breakthrough, and in some way animating me as it always does even though I'm not actually hearing it, it is much more of a testament to Mobley in my life now than, say, dutifully listening for the first time to a relatively underwhelming concert bootleg. Of course I want to hear the new stuff, but I may not hunt it down now as much as the old stuff keeps hunting me down. So even if there's overflow, it doesn't mean the cup is not ... well, you see the metaphor.

Yup, I can see what you're saying! Interesting... it's just that with me, curiosity most often gets the better, and I'll end up stacking up stuff even if i might never internalise it and absorb it to a point it would deserve, or even if I clearly understand that this or that I totally don't "need"...

[jazzbo]

Joe, the Mary Poppins album isn't great. I've learned to find it good. But you can skip it. However if you get a chance to get the Reprise Ellington Mosaic reasonably priced, go for it. Great set.