swing stars in the '50s & 60s

[mikeweil]

Mike, those two other sessions ("Mood") - were they on the Vice Prez 2LP set?

Have to research about the EmArcy twofer first.

My sources have a Japanese twofer "The Complete Paul Quinichette on EmArcy" which included all of the VEE CD except for the alternates and the Moods LP (8 tracks from two sessions of November, 1954) - could have been a 10" or a short 12" - I don't know.

Is that the Vize-Prez Twofer you all refer to?

[king ubu]

I'll have to check if that 2LP set is still around in the shop where I saw it. I think it had some sort of "complete" tag to the title, but I'm not sure.

thanks!

ubu

[Brownian Motion]

A few other albums from the period in question...

Personal Choice--Jack Teagarden, Ruby Braff, Lucky Thompson, Sol Yaged, and Ken Kersey--was recorded in 1954. Everybody shines on this date.

Red Allen was not well-served by jazz record producers in the 1950s, but he did have a good night at Newport in 1957 along with Teagarden, Kid Ory, and his buddy J.C. Higginbotham. Why Verve hasn't seen fit to reissue it is a mystery. Red also did a first rate date for RCA in 1957 (Martin Williams produced); great supporting cast: Coleman Hawkins, Higgy, and the oft-maligned Buster Bailey. This recording is certainly one of Red's masterworks.

[pryan]

Suprisingly two of my favorite Prez sessions have yet to be mentioned specifically: PREZ AND TEDDY; JAZZ GIANTS '56. It's pretty hard not to dig these ones.

[montg]

Speaking of rhythm sections--Teddy Wilson and Jo Jones on both of those Pres dates.

[Larry Kart]

"Prez and Teddy" and "Jazz Giants '56" had a big impact on me, partly because I'd seen Young with JATP at the Chicago Opera House in 10/55 -- the concert was recorded and issued as "Blues in Chicago" -- and was bewildered, even disturbed, as a 13-year-old near-total novice who had heard no Young at all before this by the strange watery sounds that this seemingly enfeebled (in fact, on the verge of a nervous and physical breakdown) man was placing next to the muscular fervor of Jacquet, Flip Phillips, Eldridge, and Gillespie. Of course, Young recovered and made these wonderful albums in early '56. Hearing them, especially "Jazz Giants," was a lesson-and-a-half, though I still don't have the words to say what was taught.

[mikeweil]

"Prez and Teddy" and "Jazz Giants '56" had a big impact on me, partly because I'd seen Young with JATP at the Chicago Opera House in 10/55 --

Oh, how blessed and blissed you are to have seen Prez in person .....

[mikeweil]

Personal Choice--Jack Teagarden, Ruby Braff, Lucky Thompson, Sol Yaged, and Ken Kersey--was recorded in 1954. Everybody shines on this date.

This Drive Archive CD is the one you're talking about?

This is OOP, but Fresh Sound also reissued this several years ago, and they also have Lucky's Urania sessions:

[mikeweil]

Red Allen was not well-served by jazz record producers in the 1950s, but he did have a good night at Newport in 1957 along with Teagarden, Kid Ory, and his buddy J.C. Higginbotham. Why Verve hasn't seen fit to reissue it is a mystery.

I have this LP and second the recommendation - Red Allen caught me on that one, although this kind of music is not my daily dose.

[brownie]

Let's not forget the mighty Big Joe Turner who made two superb albums for Atlantic 'The Boss of the Blues' and 'Big Joe Rides Again' with musicians like Joe Newman, Lawrence Brown, Pete Brown, Pete Johnson, Coleman Hawkins, Vic Dickenson, Doug Watkins and others. Those two would need to be properly reissued!

And since I mentioned Atlantic, how about 'Mainstream Jazz' which featured groups led by Vic Dickenson on one side (with Buck Clayton and Hal Singer) and trumpet player Joe Thomas (with Dicky Wells, Buster Bailey, Budd Tate and Herbie Nichols!!)?

[mikeweil]

These Coleman Hawkins tracks should be worth hearing - with Thad Jones and Eddie Costa on board?

Judging by the cover photograph they should be titled "The Hawk smokes" ...

p.s. just noticed Fresh Sound got around to releasing all tracks on one CD:

Edited November 21, 2003 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

And since I mentioned Atlantic,

"Lavern Baker Sings Bessie Smith" is another Atlantic from that "series".

[brownie]

And since I mentioned Atlantic,

"Lavern Baker Sings Bessie Smith" is another Atlantic from that "series".

Absolutely! Another great one from Atlantic. Took me years to get an original copy with that beautiful Lee Friedlander cover

[papsrus]

bump (cause my computer's acting up while I'm reading this and need to reboot).

[Brownian Motion]

As long as this thread's resurfaced. I'll make a few additions.

[papsrus]

As long as this thread's resurfaced. I'll make a few additions.

That Shavers-Hawkins just arrived here the other day. I've only had a chance to give it a first pass, and all sorts of other stuff has rubbed out the impression a little bit. Need to revisit it soon.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

While I was reading this, I kept thinking of your recent purchases Paps and wondering if you'd been reading this thread.

Black & Blue has some wonderful stuff.

Johnny Letman - A funky day in Paris

Arnett Cobb & Milt Buckner - Again with Milt

Buddy Tate & Milt Buckner - Crazy rhythm

Buddy Tate & Wild Bill Davis - Broadway

Guy Lafitte & Wild Bill Davis - Lotus blossom

Ram Ramirez - Live in Harlem (originally issued by Lansdowne Jazz on UK Columbia - produced by Stanley Dance. Though 25 mins of "Robbins' nest" by just organ & drums might be a bit much for some )

And ALL of the "Midnight slows" - B&B's continuation of Prestige Moodsville.

MG

[papsrus]

While I was reading this, I kept thinking of your recent purchases Paps and wondering if you'd been reading this thread.

Black & Blue has some wonderful stuff.

Johnny Letman - A funky day in Paris

Arnett Cobb & Milt Buckner - Again with Milt

Buddy Tate & Milt Buckner - Crazy rhythm

Buddy Tate & Wild Bill Davis - Broadway

Guy Lafitte & Wild Bill Davis - Lotus blossom

Ram Ramirez - Live in Harlem (originally issued by Lansdowne Jazz on UK Columbia - produced by Stanley Dance. Though 25 mins of "Robbins' nest" by just organ & drums might be a bit much for some )

And ALL of the "Midnight slows" - B&B's continuation of Prestige Moodsville.

MG

Indeed I have been mining this thread a bit, as well as the HEP label thread. Lots of great ideas. And thanks for yours above as well.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

While I was reading this, I kept thinking of your recent purchases Paps and wondering if you'd been reading this thread.

Black & Blue has some wonderful stuff.

Johnny Letman - A funky day in Paris

Arnett Cobb & Milt Buckner - Again with Milt

Buddy Tate & Milt Buckner - Crazy rhythm

Buddy Tate & Wild Bill Davis - Broadway

Guy Lafitte & Wild Bill Davis - Lotus blossom

Ram Ramirez - Live in Harlem (originally issued by Lansdowne Jazz on UK Columbia - produced by Stanley Dance. Though 25 mins of "Robbins' nest" by just organ & drums might be a bit much for some )

And ALL of the "Midnight slows" - B&B's continuation of Prestige Moodsville.

MG

Indeed I have been mining this thread a bit, as well as the HEP label thread. Lots of great ideas. And thanks for yours above as well.

Get you into swing organists

MG

[Rabshakeh]

Just a bump, really. 

I’ve been listening to a fair bit of 50s/60s small group swing recently since @jazzboposted that Hines / Rushing record a week or two ago. It’s strange that there’s comparatively few threads dedicated to this music given that these records come up fairly frequently on the Listening To thread.

[BillF]

11 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Just a bump, really. 

I’ve been listening to a fair bit of 50s/60s small group swing recently since @jazzboposted that Hines / Rushing record a week or two ago. It’s strange that there’s comparatively few threads dedicated to this music given that these records come up fairly frequently on the Listening To thread.

At the time (c.1960) this style was known as mainstream and many of my friends of those days were into mainstream, rather than "modern". Survivors of the Basie Old Testament band of the late thirties were prominent in this movement. I was lucky enough to see in 1959 a band with a front line of  Buck Clayton, Emmet Berry, Dickie Wells, Earl Warren and Buddy Tate. I don't remember the rhythm section, except that it didn't include Sir Charles. Here they are in a great album:

 

 

[Rabshakeh]

Does anyone know whether the term 'Mainstream' was used in the UK?

I'm familiar with the term from this forum, but I hadn't heard of it previously. The older British and South African jazz fans I know always talked about "progressive" versus "trad', which I think (could be wrong) meant effectively bop and dixieland/pop in US terms, although the context and content are different.

What I find a bit odd is how this music continues to have a half life. Records like Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben Webster are extremely popular on the internet - Frequently recommended as starter purchases on Reddit or Steve Hoffman, but the genre remains very unfashionable and barely appears in the critical guides or on twitter/Instagram. 

Anyhow, I've found that Earl Hines and Budd Johnson records really ear opening. They're incredible. 

[sidewinder]

It was certainly in common usage in the 1970s and possibly even earlier too. In fact in the 1970s it seemed to be used much more than now to cover the ‘middle ground’.

Edited March 3, 2022 by sidewinder

[JSngry]

The term "mainstream" was coined by Stanley Dance.

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes, I'd also say that the term in fact originated in the UK (through Stanley Dance) and spread from there. There was another term for this style of jazz that came up at about the same time in France: "Middle Jazz". Widely used there for a while and very descriptive IMO and amazing in that usually the French are/were loath to adopt English terms on their own but would rather "francise" them.

Re- Stanley Dance and the recordings he supervised in 1958/59 for the Felsted label (as discussed almost 20 years ago here), vinyl reissues appeared on the MJR (USA) and Affinity (UK) labels, and more recently (LONG after the 2003 discussion here ) they were reissued in their entirety on a Fresh Sound box set. Some move me more than others but overall I do seem to get more out of them than Larry Kart did in 2003 (particularly the ones by Budd Johnson and Buddy Tate). "But that's just me ..."

Edited March 3, 2022 by Big Beat Steve