wesbed Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I recently purchased Lee Morgan’s The Rumproller in my attempt to complete my collection of RVGs. I’d delayed my purchase of The Rumproller because I had a gut feeling it would be The Sidewinder Part Two. In fact, the Rumproller liner notes say the Rumproller title was Morgan’s attempt at recreating The Sidewinder. According to the liner notes, The Rumproller was never close, in sales, to that of The Sidewinder. The notes go on to say how The Sidewinder kept selling and selling much to the surprise of Blue Note and Lee Morgan. The notes say The Sidewinder was on the best-seller charts for several months after its release. I am 37 years old so am too young to have knowledge of the sales activity of The Sidewinder. It was before my time. Was The Sidewinder played on the popular radio? Did people, at the time, know who Lee Morgan was? Was his name mentioned on the best-seller and best-of lists? Were people humming the Sidwinder tunes while driving in their cars and working in their offices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I don't have any solid date (I'm only 34), but I understand it was a 'single' (on a 45-rpm record), and was relatively common on some jukeboxes, at least in certain places frequented by certain demographics. (Or so I know I've read somewhere, ages ago.) Was there a b-side?? What was it?? Another Lee Morgan tune?? Or something else popular, by another BN artist?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Rumpwinders? Siderollers? Caramba! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The "trick" is that Sidewinder was used in a television commercial (Chevrolet? Jeez; we need someone older than me!), hence had a lot more exposure than your normal jazz tune... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The B side of The Sidewinder was The Sidewinder. It was a part 1 & 2 thing (same with The Rumproller, and Cornbread). Check the Cuscuna/Ruppli book for a huge list of Blue Note 45 rpm issues. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 According to Ted Gioia's The History of Jazz, the single reached #25 on the pop charts, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Pontiac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Chuck may be right, but I always thought it was Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I was thinking Dodge and the World Series. The info's on some album somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Seems to me there was a Chrysler car (could have been a Dodge or Plymouth, of course) that actually had a sidewinder insignia on the front fender. One of those mid' sixties muscle cars with a 'hemi motor. 8 miles to the gallon but went like stink (at least in the quarter mile). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The B side of The Sidewinder was The Sidewinder. It was a part 1 & 2 thing (same with The Rumproller, and Cornbread). Check the Cuscuna/Ruppli book for a huge list of Blue Note 45 rpm issues. Mike The single song, The Sidewinder, was issued as a 45 record? The Sidewinder song was on both sides of the record? The same version of the song was on both sides? Or, the song was too long for a single side so it was broken in half, half on Side A and half on Side B? How did this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 . . . the song was too long for a single side so it was broken in half, half on Side A and half on Side B? How did this work? It sure did work that way (me being only 24, but having a little tiny bit of knowledge on other BN singles holing one tune of similar lenght). Never knew about the car publicity use! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The single song, The Sidewinder, was issued as a 45 record? The Sidewinder song was on both sides of the record? The same version of the song was on both sides? Or, the song was too long for a single side so it was broken in half, half on Side A and half on Side B? How did this work? I don't have this particular item, nor have I ever come across it to hear, but it's been my experience w/jazz 45s from back then that the song is divided into two parts, with the A-Side fading out and the B-Side fading in at roughly the same spot the fadeout began on the A-Side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The Sidewinder was a "jazz hit" in 1964. Subsequently, Chrysler used the song in it's TV commercials in 1965-66. Can distinctly remember those commercials being aired during NFL games during that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 wesbed--what do you think of The Rumproller? I was expecting "another Sidewinder" as well when I bought it, but I like the disc a lot more than The Sidewinder, so I was curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 wesbed--what do you think of The Rumproller? I was expecting "another Sidewinder" as well when I bought it, but I like the disc a lot more than The Sidewinder, so I was curious... The Rumproller… hmmm. I view The Rumproller as being an extension of The Sidewinder. Both have the same kind of sound being that both are products of Lee Morgan from around the same time period. To me, there is something more genuine or ‘real jazz’ on The Rumproller which is not present on The Sidewinder. I believe both are good sessions and are much more enjoyable than the negative connotations usually given to The Sidewinder. For me, both sessions, while not being the absolute best of the Blue Note catalog, are quite good due to the presence of the player who’s made several sessions much better due his presence, my main man Joe Henderson. Note what Henderson added to Song for my Father, Point of Departure and Idle Moments. I’ve heard/read so much negative about The Sidewinder. Yes, I, too, am tired of the Sidewinder knockoffs (the songs The Turnaround and Una Mas come to mind). I’ve always thought Lee Morgan planned The Sidewinder to be popular and didn’t realize, till reading these boards, the Sidewinder’s success may have been mostly attributed to a TV commercial. It seems a little odd that Morgan attempted to create a second Sidewinder with the Rumproller. Also, that Hank Mobley tried to create his own Sidewinder with The Turnaround, and Kenny Dorham with Una Mas. When, in truth, a TV commercial may have been the true success of The Sidewinder. The Rumproller is good. After listening, again, to The Sidewinder, due to my purchase of The Rumproller, I’ve come to the conclusion that both are good sessions and are better than my memories of The Sidewinder warranted. I’d pick The Rumproller/Sidewinder titles as being more enjoyable than, say, Leeway. Although all three Morgan sessions are worth having, listening to, learning about, and enjoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) I was 18 in 1964. It was my first semester of college and I was working weekends as a musician. The Radio station at the time that I listened to the most was WNJR- AM in Newark NJ. At this time very few cars had FM radios, WNJR's programing was devoted to Gospel in the morning, R&B in the afternoon and Jazz after midnight (or maybe 1:00 AM). It was here that I first heard THE SIDEWINDER, MY FAVORITE THINGS, SONG FOR MY FATHER, etc. (Also Aretha, B.B. King, Jimmy Reed, Muddy, Claude Jeeter, The Swan Silvertones, the Five Blindboys.... etc) As far as I can remember there was no 24 hr a day Jazz station on AM or FM in the entire Metropolitan New York area. WEVD-FM and WQXR-FM devoted some time to Jazz, and I mostly recall Mort Fega and a weekly 1 hr program with John S. Wilson on Wednesday nights at 10:00. THE SIDEWINDER got frequent play on WNJR. Was the average rock or pop fan aware of it? I don't think so.....nah. Was LEE MORGAN a well known name...only to Jazz fans. But in 1964 there were a GREAT many more "casual" jazz fans that there are now ...semi hip people if you want to call them that. The two Jazz albums that everyone had in my first year of college were THE SIDEWINDER and the LOU RAWLS LIVE album on Capitol. The Basie ATOMIC lp was around a lot too. THE RUMPROLLER came and went unnoticed by the casual fans. It never achieved the popularity of THE SIDEWINDER....And as I remember it..CORNBREAD was the next attempt at this kind of hit. Edited November 21, 2003 by Harold_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 THE SIDEWINDER got frequent play on WNJR. Was the average rock or pop fan aware of it? I don't think so.....nah. Was LEE MORGAN a well known name...only to Jazz fans. But in 1964 there were a GREAT many more "casual" jazz fans that there are now ...semi hip people if you want to call them that. The two Jazz albums that everyone had in my first year of college were THE SIDEWINDER and the LOU RAWLS LIVE album on Capitol. The Basie ATOMIC lp was around a lot too. THE RUMPROLLER came and went unnoticed by the casual fans. It never achieved the popularity of THE SIDEWINDER....And as I remember it..CORNBREAD was the next attempt at this kind of hit. I believe what you write is the most accurate thing I've read about Lee Morgan and The Sidewinder. Thanks for your words of wisdom. Also, thanks for your very poignant post to this thread. Through your words I could nearly see scenes of 'you' at 18 years of age, living in New York/New Jersey, and going to college in 1964. I was born in 1966. I missed those years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 In the Detroit area, the all-sports AM station introduces one of their segments w/The Sidewinder! I almost drove off the road when I heard it the first time. They even had a few jazz heads call in and talk about Lee Morgan when the station first started playing the music. I love both Sidewinder and Rumproller and always thought the former was dissed by critics BECAUSE it crossed over. You know how some people get when the masses discover one of "their" musicians ... I'd be curious to know what was written by the jazz mags, etc., when Sidweinder first came out but before it became so popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 "Morgan's style has changed; it doesn't resemble Clifford Brown's nearly as much as it did about three years ago. Even before that time, Morgan was considered the boy wonder of jazz trumpeters, but now he's a more original and, if this LP is an indication, a more creative improviser. Unfortunately, he's been receiving less attention - probably partly because he's grown too old to merit the "prodigy" label. "Morgan's phrasing is more legato now. In fact, the looseness of his playing sometimes recalls Clark Terry's, a similarity that may be more than coincidental, since Morgan uses squeezed tones and certain other devices that are associated with Terry. "Characteristically, Morgan is seldom at a loss for ideas, and his solos are thoughtfully constructed. His tone is full and brassy, and he plays more economically than usual. "The tunes - all Morgan originals - are, in general, simple and catchy. Only on 'Hocus-Pocus,' though is a straight-swinging beat employed throughout. However, this doesn't mean that anything revolutionary in rhythm and meter has been attempted; the rhythm section often plays the choppy figures found in rhythm and blues or Gospel music. "This type of accompaniment doesn't bring out the best in the normally estimable Harris. Sometimes he riffs unimaginatively and utilizes tired funky intervals and chords. By contrast, however, he takes a fine, long-lined spot of 'Hocus.' "Henderson, an aggressive post-bopper, improvises competently. At this point, he seems strongly influenced by Sonny Rollins." - Harvey Pekar in Down Beat, October 22, 1964, pp. 29-30 - three and a half stars (out of five) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Vitus Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 According to Ted Gioia's The History of Jazz, the single reached #25 on the pop charts, by the way. According to the Billboard chart information provided by AMG: Year Album Chart Highest Position 1965 The Sidewinder Pop Albums No. 25 1965 The Sidewinder Black Albums No. 10 1966 Search For The New Land Pop Albums No. 143 1966 Search For The New Land Black Albums No. 16 1967 Cornbread Jazz Albums No. 7 1968 Gigolo Jazz Albums No. 11 1969 Caramba! Jazz Albums No. 10 1969 Caramba! Pop Albums No. 190 1969 Caramba! Black Albums No. 42 1988 Cornbread Top Jazz Albums No. 15 1996 Live At The Lighthouse Top Jazz Albums No. 23 Year Single Chart Highest Position 1965 The Sidewinder, Part 1 Pop Singles No. 81 1965 The Sidewinder, Part 1 Black Singles No. 81 AMG Entry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 (edited) My fault, St. Vitus; I just rechecked...Gioia's actual statement is : "After leaving Blakey in 1961, Morgan recorded extensively as a leader for the Blue Note label, and achieved a major success with his 1963 staccato funk outing "The Sidewinder", which evenutally reached number twenty-five on the Billboard charts." It was sloppy reading on my part that turned "outing" into "single"; apologies, everyone. Edited November 22, 2003 by Jazzmoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I’ve heard/read so much negative about The Sidewinder. Yes, I, too, am tired of the Sidewinder knockoffs (the songs The Turnaround and Una Mas come to mind). I’ve always thought Lee Morgan planned The Sidewinder to be popular and didn’t realize, till reading these boards, the Sidewinder’s success may have been mostly attributed to a TV commercial. It seems a little odd that Morgan attempted to create a second Sidewinder with the Rumproller. Also, that Hank Mobley tried to create his own Sidewinder with The Turnaround, and Kenny Dorham with Una Mas. UNA MAS was recorded before THE SIDEWINDER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 (edited) Didn't the tune "Una Mas" also get used in a commercial of some kind? Seems to me like I remember reading that somewhere. Maybe that's where my Dodge memory comes in. Whatever, whoever was running Chrysler Corp.'s ad campaigns in those days deserves a salute, and not the one-fingered kind... Myself, I don't understand the ambivalence towards SIDEWINDER the album. Even if you don't like the title tune, take it away, and you're left with one of the best mainstream Hard Bop albums of the 1960s, one of those sesssions where everybody's on the same page and the shit just flows like it's supposed to. Barry Harris might be the "odd man out" in some ways, but it don't bother me none if he is. This is the way that the combination of those players playing this kind of music is supposed to sound! Edited November 22, 2003 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 (edited) UNA MAS was recorded before THE SIDEWINDER. You know, I second-guessed myself about this fact after I submitted my board post. After pressing the submit button I wondered, did Una Mas come before The Sidewinder? I was at work and couldn't look at my RVGs to be sure. According to the RVG back covers, Una Mas was recorded in April of 1963 and The Sidewinder was recorded in December of 1963. This information makes my original statement about Una Mas, quite frankly, untrue. In that Kenny Dorham was attempting to create his own Sidewinder. However, both albums were recorded during the same year and during the same style/era of Blue Note music. This information, regarding the recording date of Una Mas, adds to my idea that Morgan didn't plan The Sidewinder to be a commercial success. Rather, Morgan was following in the current style of Blue Note in those months. Jeez, maybe Kenny Dorham created the first Sidewinder and The Sidewinder was the first Sidewinder knock off? I was listening to Una Mas a few weeks ago and thought, to myself, this song is just as good (or as bad) as that damned Sidewinder! I read somewhere, can't remember where, that jazz fanatics were disappointed at the release of The Sidewinder, that Morgan had sold-out and tried to become more mainstream. I'm glad to learn/realize that Morgan was following one of the styles of Blue Note at the time, that he probably didn't plan The Sidewinder and probably didn't plan to sell-out. Maybe I should check the recording date of The Turnaround as well? Edited November 22, 2003 by wesbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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