neveronfriday Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Hi everyone, on and off I've been reading that the German ZYX CDs are supposed to be pretty bad in terms of mastering etc. I've been reading around a bit and couldn't find any more about it other than, well, that the CDs are often crappola. Anyone care to elaborate? Thanx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) They aren't all bad. From my experience (I've bought about 30 of them, mostly the 20 or 24 Bit series, marked "OJC20" in the reference number) 1/3 of them sound like crap, 1/3 are acceptable (considering the low price, 6-8 Euro) and 1/3 sound good to excellent. The problem is that ZYX made awful errors during the remastering of many titles, partly because of the use of noise reduction processes: - On Art Pepper "Smack up", the bass intro of one track sounds like played on a rubber band - Red Garland "Groovy" is completely missing treble - Cannonball Adderley "Nippon soul": tape hiss and crowd noise come and goes, as if a noisegate had been used - Red Garland "Dig it": muddy sound I must have gotten rid of many more I don't remember. Those that I can recommend are: - Bill Evans "Waltz for Debbie"* and "Live at the Village Vanguard"* - Sonny Rollins "Saxophone colossus"* - John Coltrane "The last Trane" - Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane* - Thelonious Monk "Misterioso" - Cannonball Adderley "Know What I mean"* - Art Pepper - "And Eleven"* I've upgraded those marked with a star to SACD, K2 or XRCD versions, and although the improvement was significant, the ZYX CDs sounded pretty good enough and most listeners will be happy with them. Edited November 18, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) Does this also apply to things like the Bill Evans "Last Walz", "Complete Fantasy Recordings" etc. boxes, the Art Pepper "Complete Galaxy Recordings", and so on and so forth? I bought a whole bunch of these (also Art Tatum etc.) sets from 2001 (Zweitausendeins) in Germany. I bought so much stuff these past 12 months or so that I haven't really been able to listen to more than 10% of it all. Edited November 18, 2003 by deus62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Any comments on the five Chet Baker 1965 Prestige CDs? I was considering getting them as they have original cover art and original track order, but if they are among the bad ones, I will get the three Fantasy CDs with the same material instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) I listened to one of the Chet Baker CDs in a store and the sound was pretty bad (processed and muddy). @Deus: The ZYX boxes use the same remastering as the US boxes. Edited November 18, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) I have the Japanese 20-bit K2 remastered versions of the Chet Baker albums: Smokin' - Victor VICJ-60047 Groovin' - Victor VICJ-60048 Comin' On - Victor VICJ-60049 Cool Burnin' - Victor VICJ-60050 Boppin' - Victor VICJ-60051 The sound is better than those ZYX discs. They might still be available from Hiroshi Tanno: hiroshi@earlyrecords.com. The music is great, with George Coleman - tenor sax, Kirk Lightsey - piano, Herman Wright - bass, Roy Brooks - drums. Edited November 18, 2003 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Does this also apply to things like the Bill Evans "Last Walz", "Complete Fantasy Recordings" etc. boxes, the Art Pepper "Complete Galaxy Recordings", and so on and so forth? I bought a whole bunch of these (also Art Tatum etc.) sets from 2001 (Zweitausendeins) in Germany. I bought so much stuff these past 12 months or so that I haven't really been able to listen to more than 10% of it all. deus, as has been said before, the boxes used US-remasterings. I bought some of them, too, and have not come to listen to all of them, either. Generally, it seems that all Fantasy reissues distributed here (Switzerland, in my case), are produced by ZYX, but all - except for the erratic 20bit remasters series - use US-remasterings. You can see that easily, as it says on the back cover of the discs, "Remastering 200X, Kirk Felton (or whoever) (Fantasy Studios, Berkeley)". On the bottom of the back of the CD, it says "Manufactured under License for Distribution by ZYX-Music". Nothing wrong with these! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 On the bottom of the back of the CD, it says "Manufactured under License for Distribution by ZYX-Music". Nothing wrong with these! ubu Phew. Thanx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) The info on the back cover is not always reliable. I have some OJC20 CDs which give credits to the Fantasy remastering engineer (the one that prepared the first CD reissue) while it's clear that they were remastered by ZYX. Edited November 18, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 it says on the back cover of the discs, "Remastering 200X, Kirk Felton (or whoever) (Fantasy Studios, Berkeley)". Hey, THAT's the important part! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 it says on the back cover of the discs, "Remastering 200X, Kirk Felton (or whoever) (Fantasy Studios, Berkeley)". Hey, THAT's the important part! ubu Gotcha. Just quoted wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 One CD I have gives more specific info: "Remastered at ZYX Music studios from the original analog tapes with APOGEE PSX100" Apogee PSX100 (hey, they invested $3000 in remastering equipment ) Check the ZYX homepage to see what their main activity is. Did you know the Country Sisters from Czechoslovakia and the I Love Disco - Diamond Collection Vol.23? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Yeah, that's their problem - they probably don't have a remastering egineer knowing about the intricacies of jazz recording and mastering in the 1950's ff. My experience is that only that 20bit remastering series is done by them here, the remainder are just manufactured here (Germany, that is) from master tapes delivered by Fantasy in California. I never had any problems with these, only with those 20bit digipack remasters - they all sounded awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I've rooted around in my collection and the only ZYX remasters I could come up with are the digipack Montreux ones ... I have all of them, I think. I'll listen to them tomorrow (yes, I know, I shouldn't buy stuff all the time and then put it on the shelf without listening to it), but any opinions on these? I did have the whole series once (years ago ... not ZYX, I believe), but I gave it to my dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Thanks, Claude and J.A.W. I’ll stay away from the ZYX versions then. Getting the Japanese releases is indeed tempting, but may be a bit pricey compared to getting the regular Fantasy releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted May 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 OK. Zweitausendeins had a great sale for lots of these Zyx remasters for 4.99 or whatever. I bought pretty much the whole lot. Many are damn good (I'm listening to Art Pepper+Eleven which sounds more than fine to me), but some sound so awful that one could puke (why is it Ellington that gets the shitty end of the stick all the time?). Can't we put together a comprehensive list of those releases that sound abominable? I mean, they are available again and again at bargain prices, and every other one is a turkey. Let me start: 01.Duke Ellington & Billy Strayhorn. Piano Duets - Great Times!. Absolute shite. Godawful. Hate release. Makes me want to be a terrorist. 02. Count Basie meets Oscar Peterson. The Timekeepers. F***. This thing is such a great session and it's got enough cruddy sound to make you cry. Basie and Peterson in a tin can. Pingy to the max. Crap! Venting season has started. Chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 (edited) From this sale, I only bought Chet Baker - Once upon a summertime, a 1977 quintet session on the Galaxy label. The sound on this "20Bit remastered" CD is merely acceptable, rather muddy. It's hardly thinkable this has been recorded like that in the studio. I don't have any other CD to compare it to though. Musically, it's a very good straughtforward session, with the unknown tenor sax player Gregory Herbert. Edited May 8, 2004 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted May 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Yeah, got that one too. Not bad. Despite all the posts, reviews, etc. I just don't understand why a company can get away unscathed with putting out such an amount of unbelievably bad re-issues, remastered as if mastered by a 1st-semester student on crack. And yes, I know that this is insulting all 1st semester students. All of them would have done a better job. God, I get so aggrevated listening to the Basie/Peterson date. I've never heard such bad remastering. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this can simply not be the way it was recorded. And the Ellington/Strayhorn? Man, I feel like kicking something. An absolute disgrace. And, if I'm accidentally trashing the original recording engineer, I don't care. This is just awful. But, hell, it's great music. Amazing what we jazz fans have to put up with. I'm on a hate streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 The remaster of This Here Is Bobby Timmons suffers from wow; the pitch on "Moanin'" wobbles for a few seconds. The sound on Coleman Hawkins Night Hawk ia acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Despite all the posts, reviews, etc. I just don't understand why a company can get away unscathed with putting out such an amount of unbelievably bad re-issues, remastered as if mastered by a 1st-semester student on crack. And yes, I know that this is insulting all 1st semester students. All of them would have done a better job. I suspect they have a techno engineer - that's the music they make money with - doing these remasterings with his right hand constantly occupied by holding Hamburgers, his right eye on the secretary's legs and his right ear on the mobile phone. I don't know what he does with the left organs - but I'm pretty sure they're not doing the remastering either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 The remaster of This Here Is Bobby Timmons suffers from wow; the pitch on "Moanin'" wobbles for a few seconds. yeah, that one is so damn ugly I didn't even catch it on the last BFT as I had only played the disk once then shelved it. Terrible, I need to dump these. so deus: 03. Bobby Timmons - This Here is Bobby Timmons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 The ZYX version of Kelly Blue that I have suffers from wow making it impossible to fully enjoy. I've seen a more recent digipack version. Has it been corrected? The pitch transfer that really annoys me is the CD version of Wayne Shorter's 'Native Dancer' - Columbia in this case. It really is time that one got sorted out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.L.M Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 (edited) More addition to the RECOMMANDED/ AVOID lists, but this one is a bit schyzophrenic (don't know if this word is correctly spelling.) RECOMMANDED list: ERIC DOLPHY: LIVE AT THE FIVE SPOT VOL.1 (from a Fantasy master) The sound is very precise with lot of dynamic. Very closed to the LPs I own (european edition.) AVOID list: ERIC DOLPHY: LIVE AT THE FIVE SPOT VOL.2 (from ZYX fancy remastering) Muddy from the beginning to the end. No dynamic. Sound like a bad bootleg recording. NB: LIVE AT THE FIVE SPOT VOL.1 doesn't have the BEE VAMP alternate. Edited May 10, 2004 by P.L.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.L.M Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 One more in the RECOMMANDED section: ART PEPPER: MEETS THE RYTHM SECTION Also from a Fantasy master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 recommended: JAMES CLAY / FATHEAD NEWMAN - THE SOUND OF WIDE OPEN SPACES yet another US fantasy master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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