Is there a Chick Webb box set????

[tranemonk]

the only thing I was ever able to find was one of those Proper boxes????

thanks

[J.A.W.]

The Scottish Hep label released two Chick Webb CDs that were mastered by the late John R.T. Davies. They're excellent and the best Chick Webb currently available on CD. Get them while you can.

Edited July 6, 2009 by J.A.W.

[ghost of miles]

You might also want to check out Hep's recent Ella Fitzgerald release, which is actually Ella leading the Webb band after his death...no vocals (outside of a few enthusiastic huzzahs from Ella as she urges the band on), but good music. ELLA FITZGERALD: THE EARLY YEARS PART 1 features Ella w/Chick's band while he was still alive:

Ella Fitzgerald: the Early Years Part 1

[captainwrong]

That Proper set ain't bad...

[thomastreichler]

the only thing I was ever able to find was one of those Proper boxes????

thanks

I have a Chick Webb Proper box for sale: Condition like new (only played once), $15 shipping included. I accept payment via Paypal. Please send me a PM if interested.

[Niko]

does anyone understand this sentence from the german wikipedia and can translate it for me? (mainly, what is "black quality"?)

"Webb war ein Präzisionsfanatiker, weshalb er, nach anfänglichen Headarrangements, andere Bands in perfekt intonierter Satzarbeit mit schwarzer Qualität übertraf, z. B. Goodmans Band."

[Big Beat Steve]

Ain't that pretty obvious - especially to you as a German, Niko?

Black bands had a "black sound", and their "black" style was (and with hardcore swing fans still is) associated with a specifically superior "black" quality of swinging jazz, i.e. playing jazz in the swing style, making the music swing in a "black" way (generally considered more intense, more vital, more colorful, in short, more swinging (in every respect) than their white counterparts which often were considered relatively pale copycats by comparison).

Some of the better white bands of course tried to capture that specifically "black" sound of black bands, some of them (such as Goodman, thanks to Henderson's arrangements) got pretty close. AND they had the added bonus of often coming up with tighter, better organized ensemble sounds (many black bands, while being praised for their vitality and intense, unmatched swing, were blamed for sloppy ensemble work and lack of precision). Which is what that sentence seems to allude to, because Webb beat the white bands on BOTH terms (being a black band and therefore having a blacker, more swinging, jazzier sound, AND at the same time being extremely disciplined with very precise section work).

Don't know where that scribble from Wikipedia was taken from (DON'T take whatever's written in Wikipedia as being the FINAL WORD on it - ever ... ) but this sentence does read like it was lifted off an older source. In jazz publications through the 30s to 50s/60s jazz writers often indulged in those specifically black-white comparisons that which praised black bands and musicians for their superior jazz musicianship and ability to swing, YET tended to measure black bands by "white" standards of desirable ensemble precision and TECHNICAL proficiency as manifested in that "precision" (unjustufiedly so IMHO). Just read the respective articles in jazz books and mags from that period and you will see.

[Niko]

Ain't that pretty obvious - especially to you as a German, Niko?

Black bands had a "black sound", and their "black" style was (and with hardcore swing fans still is) associated with a specifically superior "black" quality of swinging jazz, i.e. playing jazz in the swing style, making the music swing in a "black" way (generally considered more intense, more vital, more colorful, in short, more swinging (in every respect) than their white counterparts which often were considered relatively pale copycats by comparison).

Some of the better white bands of course tried to capture that specifically "black" sound of black bands, some of them (such as Goodman, thanks to Henderson's arrangements) got pretty close. AND they had the added bonus of often coming up with tighter, better organized ensemble sounds (many black bands, while being praised for their vitality and intense, unmatched swing, were blamed for sloppy ensemble work and lack of precision). Which is what that sentence seems to allude to, because Webb beat the white bands on BOTH terms (being a black band and therefore having a blacker, more swinging, jazzier sound, AND at the same time being extremely disciplined with very precise section work).

Don't know where that scribble from Wikipedia was taken from (DON'T take whatever's written in Wikipedia as being the FINAL WORD on it - ever ... ) but this sentence does read like it was lifted off an older source. In jazz publications through the 30s to 50s/60s jazz writers often indulged in those specifically black-white comparisons that which praised black bands and musicians for their superior jazz musicianship and ability to swing, YET tended to measure black bands by "white" standards of desirable ensemble precision and TECHNICAL proficiency as manifested in that "precision" (unjustufiedly so IMHO). Just read the respective articles in jazz books and mags from that period and you will see.

thanks! actually i learned something espceially from your middle paragraph... that said, i mostly found it odd and quoted it because wikipedia read like it was written in 1953 in that passage (there's so much in wikipedia where you can see people's good intentions but just want to jump in... one day i'll sign up but not yet...)

[Big Beat Steve]

thanks! actually i learned something espceially from your middle paragraph... that said, i mostly found it odd and quoted it because wikipedia read like it was written in 1953 in that passage

My impression too.

Generally I am all for studying jazz history not only from today's point of view but from contemporary sources, and even historical sources relating to "past" events at a time when that "past" was still far closer in time can be very informative. But you HAVE to take them with a grain of salt.

And I feel this is the case in this "black" aspect here too.

If you read JAZZ PODIUM mag issues from the 50s and 60s, for example, you will notice that despite their sincerely good intentions, most German jazz scribes of the time had an EXTREMELY hard time in NOT judging jazz by the "Western"/European standards of "classical" music and whatever "respectability" went with that. And of course this would also be reflected in the discussion of black swing bands as invariably the two extremes of black vitality and black superiority in creating that "swing" on the one hand and any assumed "lack" of precision in the "execution" of the music on the other would enter the picture in the debate.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Big Beat Steve

[bichos]

Ain't that pretty obvious - especially to you as a German, Niko?

Black bands had a "black sound", and their "black" style was (and with hardcore swing fans still is) associated with a specifically superior "black" quality of swinging jazz, i.e. playing jazz in the swing style, making the music swing in a "black" way (generally considered more intense, more vital, more colorful, in short, more swinging (in every respect) than their white counterparts which often were considered relatively pale copycats by comparison).

Some of the better white bands of course tried to capture that specifically "black" sound of black bands, some of them (such as Goodman, thanks to Henderson's arrangements) got pretty close. AND they had the added bonus of often coming up with tighter, better organized ensemble sounds (many black bands, while being praised for their vitality and intense, unmatched swing, were blamed for sloppy ensemble work and lack of precision). Which is what that sentence seems to allude to, because Webb beat the white bands on BOTH terms (being a black band and therefore having a blacker, more swinging, jazzier sound, AND at the same time being extremely disciplined with very precise section work).

Don't know where that scribble from Wikipedia was taken from (DON'T take whatever's written in Wikipedia as being the FINAL WORD on it - ever ... ) but this sentence does read like it was lifted off an older source. In jazz publications through the 30s to 50s/60s jazz writers often indulged in those specifically black-white comparisons that which praised black bands and musicians for their superior jazz musicianship and ability to swing, YET tended to measure black bands by "white" standards of desirable ensemble precision and TECHNICAL proficiency as manifested in that "precision" (unjustufiedly so IMHO). Just read the respective articles in jazz books and mags from that period and you will see.

thanks, big beat steve, that was a very good written statement! i was thinking about answering in the same way but i don´t found the right words (in english).

keep boppin´

marcel

(you are right: be careful with wikipedia)

[king ubu]

two words: Jimmie Lunceford!

[AllenLowe]

well, I've always thought of myself as the white Stan Kenton -

Edited July 21, 2009 by AllenLowe

[jeffcrom]

well, I've always thought of myself as the white Stan Kenton -

This gets my vote as the best line on this forum recently.