Astor Piazzolla

[A Lark Ascending]

Anyone familiar with Piazzolla with some recommendations?

I'd be especially interested in a good 2CD type compilation.

I have a cheapo 'Music Club' single CD and 'Zero Hour' (which is fabulous); also a Chandos orchestral recording of his music by other players, bandoneon concerto included.

Also interested in any single disc 'must haves'!

[kh1958]

There's a recording with Gerry Mulligan (Summit) that's pretty good.

http://www.amazon.com/Summit-Reunion-Cumbr...3641&sr=1-2

Edited June 12, 2009 by kh1958

[rpklich]

I have a some his recordings on vinyl on the American Clave label, including 'Zero Hour' . I liked the 'Rough Dancer' lp on that label as well. Not that it should make any difference, but I found the liner notes on the label to be pretentious.

[A Lark Ascending]

Got myself a random 2CD set off iTunes. Seems there are dozens of compilations out there made up of endless live recordings. This set sounds fine to my unschooled ears.

Also got Gary Burton's 'Libertango' off e-music - no Piazzolla himself but all his music. Best Burton disc I've heard in years.

The Mulligan looks interesting but I want to get a feel for the man himself first.

[Jason Drake]

Bev, this is the way to go.. they may be cheaper at amazon fr but here are the amazon uk links

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musica-Popular-Con...7763&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musica-Popular-Con...7763&sr=1-1

[WorldB3]

I second the recommendation for Tango: Zero Hour. Its a must own classic.

[seeline]

There are so many Piazzolla CDs out there, it's not funny.

I listened to him a lot back in the late 80s-early 90s, but lost patience after a while - if only because (maybe) a lot of his material tends to be repetitive. (I know, I know - go ahead, shoot me! )

One that I like a lot is The Rough Dancer and the Cyclical Night, with Paquito D'Rivera joining the ensemble on some tracks. It was written as a dance score and has a very different feel than his other American Clave albums.

These discs, reissued by Circular Moves here in the US, are also really good -

This is probably my favorite, IMO far above anything that Piazzolla recorded himself -

Edited to add: After Piazzolla became popular here in the US, he gave some odd - and, IMO, self-aggrandizing - interviews to American papers. There's one that sticks out in my mind where he claimed that some people who didn't like his music attempted to set him on fire after he left a radio studio in Buenos Aires. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't - let's just say that I have my doubts.

Not that it should make any difference, but I found the liner notes on the label to be pretentious.

Oh my yes. Too much so for my taste! (Also true of many of the album titles Kip Hanrahan came up with.)

Edited June 16, 2009 by seeline

[seeline]

Bev, I'd also recommend trying to scrape up some of his early recordings, made before he left Buenos Aires for France. He got very "arty" after moving to Europe. Those early recordings are what made his reputation as an innovator, and they're good.

I don't mean to give the impression that I think his later music was bad - far from it. But I think Kip Hanrahan (owner of American Clave) was interested in "arty" material, and that's mostly what you get on the AC releases.

I have very mixed feelings about the live album he made with Gary Burton. At one time, I loved it and played it over and over. Now i don't think I could stand more than 1 track at a time, if that.

But hey - I think I'm just not cut out for tango, at least the real hardcore Argentinean kind. The lyrics are pretty nihilistic at times, and the angustia is a bit overwhelming (for my taste). I guess that's why I prefer Brazilian music, on the whole.

* One thing I should add: I've heard a couple of recordings (made in France) where Piazzolla accompanied tango singers. I liked them a lot, angst-y vocals and all!

Edited June 16, 2009 by seeline

[A Lark Ascending]

Thanks all.

The big Piazzolla craze of a few years back passed me by completely, so I've not had a chance to become jaded by over-exposure.

I became intrigued listening to a radio programme a few months back. Just after a modest selection.

Probably the hot weather that is drawing me that way at present.

[seeline]

I envy you, getting to hear him for the 1st time without all the hype surrounding him and his music.

And I bet the Assad Brothers CD will be very appealing to you.

[Larry Kart]

Argentinian wallpaper for the most part, IMO. Useful if you have trouble sleeping.

[AllenLowe]

Larry, have you heard Tango Zero Hour? take some methamphetamines and put it on the CD player - but do not operate any heavy machinery -

[A Lark Ascending]

Argentinian wallpaper for the most part, IMO. Useful if you have trouble sleeping.

[Larry Kart]

Larry, have you heard Tango Zero Hour? take some methamphetamines and put it on the CD player - but do not operate any heavy machinery -

I'm pretty sure that I have heard it, and by "wallpaper" I didn't that his music is without zest, pep, swoop, etc. but that it's so narrow in range and/or predictable harmonically and rhythmically that I tend to nod off because it seems to me to be all pretty much one kind of thing. It's like a cuisine where, this side of dessert, certain pungent spices pervade virtually every dish.

[kh1958]

The thread asked for recommendations. Who cares that you can't hear the music?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Bev - not much use now(!) - but he was Composer of the Week a couple of months or so ago...it was a real surprise to me - some lovely, and completely unexpected, stuff.

[AllenLowe]

"The thread asked for recommendations. Who cares that you can't hear the music?"

I care - when it's Larry Kart, I listen, and you should, too -

[Larry Kart]

The thread asked for recommendations. Who cares that you can't hear the music?

Because the initial poster asked for recommendations, that's the only legit response? I think that any thread that brings up someone's music opens the door for free commentary on it. And I didn't only say that I "can't hear" the music, I offered (briefly) specific reasons why. On the other hand, contra Allen, while we all have track records, I don't think anyone should pay attention to what I say just because I said it. I'm only trying to talk here the way I'd talk to any group of friends/acquaintances who have common interests, and I'm always prepared to be told I'm wrong, if I'm told why. The learning process never ends.

[kh1958]

The thread asked for recommendations. Who cares that you can't hear the music?

Because the initial poster asked for recommendations, that's the only legit response? I think that any thread that brings up someone's music opens the door for free commentary on it. And I didn't only say that I "can't hear" the music, I offered (briefly) specific reasons why. On the other hand, contra Allen, while we all have track records, I don't think anyone should pay attention to what I say just because I said it. I'm only trying to talk here the way I'd talk to any group of friends/acquaintances who have common interests, and I'm always prepared to be told I'm wrong, if I'm told why. The learning process never ends.

An overreaction on my part; sorry. Thanks for the Sara Vaughn/Lester Young Blue Note CD recommendation, among others.

[seeline]

Larry, kh isn't the only person who took your post that way... it came across to me as very dismissive.

I have to wonder (seriously, *not* meant as a flame) what Piazzolla recordings you've listened to? Because I agree that some of them are pretty snoozy. But not all. As for the "limited" part, well... he composed and performed tangos and milongas. That's pretty much what he was about, so I'm not sure that he deserves blame for what might be limitations of the form itself. Everything is through-composed.

I got to hear him live twice. The 1st show, which was with the personnel on Tango Zero Hour, was amazing. They had to play in a donated hall with not-so-hot acoustics, because the hall he'd been booked into cancelled his contract for some reason that escapes me now. The audience was mostly Latin American, and they were very enthusiastic. The whole group played their behinds off.

The other time I heard him, he was touring after his final American Clave album was released (very shortly before he had the stroke that ended his career). The acoustics were much worse, and the music just didn't have much kick. It was like they were trying too hard in a way that killed all the spontaneity. And maybe the group was tired (literally).

That 1st show really was superb.

Edited June 17, 2009 by seeline

[Larry Kart]

Larry, kh isn't the only person who took your post that way... it came across to me as very dismissive.

I have to wonder (seriously, *not* meant as a flame) what Piazzolla recordings you've listened to? Because I agree that some of them are pretty snoozy. But not all. As for the "limited" part, well... he composed and performed tangos and milongas. That's pretty much what he was about, so I'm not sure that he deserves blame for what might be limitations of the form itself. Everything is through-composed.

I got to hear him live twice. The 1st show, which was with the personnel on Tango Zero Hour, was amazing. They had to play in a donated hall with not-so-hot acoustics, because the hall he'd been booked into cancelled his contract for some reason that escapes me now. The audience was mostly Latin American, and they were very enthusiastic. The whole group played their behinds off.

The other time I heard him, he was touring after his final American Clave album was released (very shortly before he had the stroke that ended his career). The acoustics were much worse, and the music just didn't have much kick. It was like they were trying too hard in a way that killed all the spontaneity. And maybe the group was tired (literally).

That 1st show really was superb.

Your point about possible "limitations of the form itself" cuts right to the heart of it. See, the "learning process" and/or the "remembering process" never ends. My first thought is the blues, specifically the so-called Delta Blues. The style and its various musical moves and emotional/dramatic flavors would seem to be no less (maybe much more) limited than those of the Tango. Yet I find the best Delta Blues artists to be endlessly fascinating and quite individual in relation to the styistic waters in which they swim and the other artists who swim in them. So, just for the sake of argument, we have the Tango and Piazzolla over here and, say, the Delta Blues and Robert Johnson or Sleepy John Estes over here. My consuming interest in the latter and my relative lack of response to the former no doubt has a lot to do with me, but I still think that the pervasively spiced cuisine analogy of my previous post is suggestive. However limited the style of Johnson, Estes, et al. may be, it furthers the development of strikingly individual figures who speak to us in quite varied ways, emotionally and dramatically, beyond (an equivocal term, I know) the apparent boundaries of that style. However gifted AP may be, what I hear is a sophisticated (the degree that tangos and milongas permit sophistication) elaboration of the style itself. In fact, based on my memories of some recordings of music in that style that were recorded in the relatively distant past (can't recall the names), the whole genre for my tastes might have been in better shape artistically before AP and others arrived to sophisticate it. Not every style or form that has deep "folk" roots (again a loose term for the sake of argument) has an equivalent musical/emotional richness and/or can successfully bear the weight of expansion/sophistication. In that vein, my introduction a few years ago (via our old friend Clem) to Rembitekka (sp?) was a revelation -- akin to the blues in its ability to generate varied individuality and hair-raisingly intense dramatic impact within seemingly narrow stylistic boundaries.

P.S, The Piazzolla recordings I encountered first and remember best are the ones on American Clave LPs.

[king ubu]

I don't have much so far, but I'm intrigued... this one I read a rave about it, and I think it's quite fine:

Astor Piazzolla - Muerte del Angel (Milan)

Be aware though that it's a single disc and that the amazon.com prize of 30$ is pure fantasy...

I first got in touch with Piazzolla's music via Gidon Kremer's two albums, the first of which I still enjoy:

El Tango

Homage a Piazzolla

They came out on Nonesuch in the late 90s.

[king ubu]

as for Larry's off-topic remark - go here to get a touch:

Diaspora of Rembetiko (Neatwork, 2CD)

[AllenLowe]

I actually have it on good authority that Stanley Crouch is an admirer of Piazzola's work -

he sat next to a friend of mine at a Piazzola concert years ago in NYC and kept saying how great the music was-

so Larry may indeed be right -

[seeline]

There's much more to tango than Piazzolla... which is where I think we've been a bit misled, here in the US.

that said, there are (IMO) some Piazzolla imitators who are much better off doing their own stuff - Juan Jose Mosalini, for example. (And, at times, Richard Galliano.)

Tango is a very rich musical form, but you have to dig a bit in order to be able to hear that. And the 1st thing you'll likely need to do is listen to some recordings by *the* great tango vocalist, Carlos Gardel.

Part of the problem for us N. Americans is that sung tango is really important and most of us (me included) aren't fluent enough in Spanish to be able to really hear what it's about.

People who are into dancing tango - here and abroad - really know the music. There are lots of great tango sites in Spanish (natch); French, too. If you don't want to mess with those, look up some sites for people who dance tango. You'll find some good recs right off the bat, though some won't be traditional. (Lots has happened since Piazzolla came up with his "new tango." )

I'd also recommend checking out the Rough Guide tango comps as well as the RG entry on Argentinean tango.

So... like the blues, there's a lot more going on than might be apparent at first blush. I think it's extremely unfair to judge an entire genre based solely on one composer's style and recordings.

You folks all have access to Google, so you can check it all out for yourselves.

Not every style or form that has deep "folk" roots (again a loose term for the sake of argument) has an equivalent musical/emotional richness and/or can successfully bear the weight of expansion/sophistication. In that vein, my introduction a few years ago (via our old friend Clem) to Rembitekka (sp?) was a revelation -- akin to the blues in its ability to generate varied individuality and hair-raisingly intense dramatic impact within seemingly narrow stylistic boundaries.

You know, saying that in Argentina could get you killed - or, at very least, into really messy physical fights. (I'm not kidding.) it's an urban "folk" style (like rembetika!) that came into being before jazz, and it's got a very complex history. Whether you see/hear that or not is another thing entirely - and up to you, in terms of searching out the music.

Edited June 17, 2009 by seeline