The King Oliver Thread

[AllenLowe]

this from the man, BTW, who slept in the bed that King Oliver slept in (though not at the same time). I am in awe.

Edited March 2, 2012 by AllenLowe

[Neal Pomea]

I hope you're right, Neal! And I hope Frog will issue a set of Oliver's sideman appearances on Columbia, like they did for Okeh.

Yes! this is the one!

from the credits and notes by John Capes

"Sara Martin accompanied by Clarence Williams & His Orchestra: Joe "King" Oliver (cornet) Ed Allen (cornet) Ed Cuffee (trombone) Arville Harris (clarinet) Clarence Williams (piano) Cyrus St. Clair (brass bass) Long Island City, NY circa November 1928

Hole in the Wall (test)

Hole in the Wall QRS R-7035

Don't You Turn Your Back on Me QRS R-7035

Death Sting Me Blues QRS R-7042

Sara Martin accompanied by Clarence Williams & His Orchestra: Joe "King" Oliver (cornet) Ed Cuffee (trombone) Clarence Williams (piano) Cyrus St. Clair (brass bass) Long Island City, NY circa December 1928

Mean Tight Mama QRS R-7043

Mistreating Man Blues QRS R-7042

Kitchen Man Blues QRS R-7043

Clarence Williams and His Orchestra

Joe "King" Oliver (cornet) Ed Allen (cornet) Ed Cuffee (trombone) Arville Harris (clarinet) Benny Waters (clarinet, tenor sax) Clarence Williams (piano) Cyrus St. Clair (brass bass) Long Island City, NY circa December 1928

Beau-Koo-Jack QRS R-7044

Sister Kate QRS R-7044

Pane in the Glass test

Pane in the Glass PM (Paramount? 12870)

Singer Sara Martin (1884-1955) was a star performer in stage shows and a mainstay of the catalogue of Okeh records for whom she recorded over 120 titles between 1922 and 1927....Death Sting Me Blues, written by the singer herself, is a splendid if theatrical number in which King Oliver's plaintive responses provide a second voice.... Sara Martin was not to record again and in 1931 she turned her back on the blues and devoted her life to the church. At the time she recorded these numbers she was a fully mature artist and had she recorded nothing else would have been regarded as a major talent on the basis of these (QRS) recordings alone."

Edited March 3, 2012 by Neal Pomea

[colinmce]

Well, my copy of THE COMPLETE SET on Retrieval was just melted to shit by some fool at my job (along with some Warne, Ornette and Braxton ... > ). Anyways, is there something better I could buy to replace it that might give me more bang? I can live without alternates if I get some of the later stuff in return.

[jeffcrom]

Well, my copy of THE COMPLETE SET on Retrieval was just melted to shit by some fool at my job (along with some Warne, Ornette and Braxton ... > ). Anyways, is there something better I could buy to replace it that might give me more bang? I can live without alternates if I get some of the later stuff in return.

Dang! That's tough. But as Homer Simpson said, look on this as a crisi-tunity. The Off the Record collection of the Creole Jazz Band sides blows away every previous issue in terms of sound - even the Retrieval and the French Musica Memoria, which I thought was pretty good at the time. Get it and don't look back.

[Chuck Nessa]

What Jeff said.

[colinmce]

Thanks guys.

[paul secor]

That "fool at your job" probably did you a favor as far as the Retrieval Oliver went.

Can't say the same about Warne, Ornette, and Braxton.

[AllenLowe]

the old Columbia LPs of Oliver's Okeh recordings are state of the art. IMHO.

[Neal Pomea]

Let me also recommend a Frog disc called "Blues Singers and Hot Bands on Okeh" for a collection of fine sideman recordings by Mr Oliver.

Got it in the mail today and I'm listening right now. Nice remastering! Some fine Eddie Lang with Texas Alexander and Clarence Williams & His Novelty Four. Big fan of Butterbeans and Susie here!

[MomsMobley]

a GREAT "St. James Infirmary"-- if only Frankie Marvin broke into the yodel he hints at!

illuminating

accordian?

 

[MomsMobley]

On 3/2/2012 at 11:15 PM, jeffcrom said:

Almost three years later, I thought it was time to revisit this thread and talk about Oliver's Victor recordings.

There are plenty of lame tunes among the Victor recordings - "Everybody Does It In Hawaii" is about as bad as it sounds, and there are some that are even worse, like "What's the Use of Living Without Your Love?" That one's painful.

 

respectfully as I consider Jeffcrom a great New Orleans listener and explicator, "Everybody Does It In Hawaii" KILLS but sweetly, sweetly--

I used to be a 20s / 30s 'hot jazz' diehard but folk / pop jazz and even just "jazzy" dance bands are also great, if you immerse yourself in the period, it's easier to discern the aesthetic virtues of these overlapping forms.  

before

well looky here! Frankie Marvin from Oliver's "St James Infirmary" with Roy Smeck 1929

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by MomsMobley

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't know anything about "Early Frankie Marvin" but he looks like a grifter.

[medjuck]

Who's Joe Primrose?  I thought that Irving Mills had somehow claimed authorship of St. James Infirmary. 

[Chuck Nessa]

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

Who's Joe Primrose?  I thought that Irving Mills had somehow claimed authorship of St. James Infirmary. 

It's undoubtedly one huge vacuum of money at this point.

[lipi]

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

Who's Joe Primrose?  I thought that Irving Mills had somehow claimed authorship of St. James Infirmary. 

It's a pseudonym of Mills's.

[jeffcrom]

I don't know how many years I've been listening to the 1923 Creole Jazz Band recordings - 40 years, I guess - but it's a deep well. They reveal something different every time I listen.

Listen to the interplay of Oliver and Armstrong's cornets in "Krooked Blues." Amazing.

[jlhoots]

At least peripherally related, there's a recent Ted Daniel CD called Zulu's Ball of King Oliver material. I think it's nice!!

[jeffcrom]

1 hour ago, jlhoots said:

At least peripherally related, there's a recent Ted Daniel CD called Zulu's Ball of King Oliver material. I think it's nice!!

Oh wow - I need to check that out.

[jlhoots]

3 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

Oh wow - I need to check that out.

I got my copy from Dusty Groove which now shows it as out of stock. DMG might have it, but I never buy from them.

 

[jazztrain]

5 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

I don't know how many years I've been listening to the 1923 Creole Jazz Band recordings - 40 years, I guess - but it's a deep well. They reveal something different every time I listen.

Listen to the interplay of Oliver and Armstrong's cornets in "Krooked Blues." Amazing.

A deep well indeed!  For those interested, the "Off the Record" issue appears to be back in print (although their other releases are not available).  See here:

Off The Record

 

[paul secor]

4 hours ago, jlhoots said:

At least peripherally related, there's a recent Ted Daniel CD called Zulu's Ball of King Oliver material. I think it's nice!!

 

4 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

Oh wow - I need to check that out.

Here's a YouTube clip that may pique someone's interest:

 

[paul secor]

I had forgotten about this thread. Thanks to Jeff for starting it and reviving it.

[jeffcrom]

I spun a couple of the original 78s by Oliver's Creole Jazz Band tonight, and wanted to repeat something I said in an early post in this old thread - listen for the moments when Oliver drops out and young Louis Armstrong plays lead cornet. Those moments happen more frequently than you would think.

[jeffcrom]

So I've got four 78s / six sides (two of the records have other bands on the flip) by the 1923 King Oliver Creole Jazz Band. For the first time tonight, I did an A/B toggle-back-and-forth test between each 78 and the Off the Record CD set. I love that CD set, but now I want to invite you all over to my house to hear the 78s. It's another level.

[danasgoodstuff]

12 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

So I've got four 78s / six sides (two of the records have other bands on the flip) by the 1923 King Oliver Creole Jazz Band. For the first time tonight, I did an A/B toggle-back-and-forth test between each 78 and the Off the Record CD set. I love that CD set, but now I want to invite you all over to my house to hear the 78s. It's another level.

1923 is PD now, you could put out your own set on 78s for Record Store Day!  Package deal with bathtub gin!