Bright Moments Posted May 22, 2009 Report Posted May 22, 2009 Jazz Bordello Hot House, the Jazz Bordello. hmmm - will there be a babe thread?
papsrus Posted May 22, 2009 Report Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) two cents please... Yes, it often feels good to start anew - tabula rasa - for both the website and for all of us. Suggestion(s): Close this next week (or sooner) and begin a new Forum on 4th of July weekend ("America's music", Louis Armstrong, ...) with a new name not associated with the band, but has the word "jazz" in it: Jazz Hangout, Jazz Bordello, House of Jazz and Hip Priests, whatever... and this will give everyone a month off to reflect and cool their jets. "The change'll do you good" I think Jim should have a blog (instead of or in addition to Facebook) to post exciting news, interesting events, or just plain ol' stuff about his band. This will provide a place to direct any future possible employers that want to see what's developing and has the added advantage of content completely controlled by Jim. No mention or weblinks to the future jazz site. Connections between the two (band and new jazz site) will undoubtedly be made sooner or later, but it'd appear as simply another jazz musician on a public forum who has a band. An idea. best in whatever you decide Jim, ®ø∂ I'm always sorry to hear about the dust-ups. And if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit I'm as guilty as the next guy of not wiping my shoes before I barge in and grab a seat to pound the table about one thing or another from time to time. It is Jim's place and I for one will treat it that way in the future. And I sure want to be informed I'm out of line if I ever step there. The above suggestion by rostasi isn't a half-bad idea, especially if the board is not serving the band positively. Seems it could be done simply by re-naming the forum while keeping it linked from the organissimo main page. ... with the appropriate disclaimers, etc. And if it's going to cost $$ to accomplish that, or whatever happens, I do hope Jim isn't reluctant to broach that subject. Whatever happens, this site contains a wealth of knowledge and some wonderful members, all of whom deserve at least respect. And now I'm hungry, which proves the point that if you wander these corridors long enough, you'll starve. Edited May 22, 2009 by papsrus
catesta Posted May 22, 2009 Report Posted May 22, 2009 Damn, that looks good, catesta. Gonna have to find a recipe for that! I make these like my grandmother did. I'll post up a recipe in the next couple of days. Telling you how to make them is easy, but I never really kept track of the quantity of ingredients. I'll try and write it down this time.
JPF Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Too much hand wringing. Move on folks. Yeah, show's over. I love this - from two of the most frequent offenders. Welcome to Hypocrisy.com. A couple of years ago, I think it was, I decided to stop participating in this forum because of all the hate expressed on it. Not just, "I disagree with your opinion, because...", but outright pathological hatred toward anyone who expressed an opinion contrary to the prevailing popular one. Plus, flagrant lies being posted, unchallenged by anyone. I was away for a couple of years and recently thought I'd try it again. Bad move. The same assholes are doing 90% of the posting, egged on by their sycophantic handful of "fans." This recent Stan Getz thread was the final straw. Larry Kart and Allen Lowe, if you were men, you'd issue a profound apology to Bev Getz, but for obvious reasons that's not going to happen. To the hatemongers, who appear to have nothing better to do than write hundreds of offensive posts per year, think about getting some professional help before it's too late. To Bev Getz: Don't waste your time here - read Doug Ramsey's Rifftides, or Marc Myers' JazzWax, or Ted Gioia's Jazz.com. Enough; once again (not that anyone cares), I'm outta here.
Alexander Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Enough; once again (not that anyone cares), I'm outta here. Bye! I disagree that this forum is infected with hate. If anything, I think this is the more laid back of the two jazz boards on which I post.
Free For All Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Well, JPF, if you truly think that Sangrey and Nessa are the Organissimo forum posterboys of hate and/or hypocrisy, you're probably right to avoid this place. Best of luck!
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) Hateful and hypocritical, but apparently I don't owe Bev Getz an apology, so I guess I'm one step ahead of the game! But damn do my joints ache! Here's to better living through chemistry! (naproxen) Edited May 23, 2009 by JSngry
Niko Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Enough; once again (not that anyone cares), I'm outta here. Bye! I disagree that this forum is infected with hate. If anything, I think this is the more laid back of the two jazz boards on which I post. seconded, maybe i'm naive (i know i am) but i must admit i also don't see the hate so many others are seeing... but since jim is one of those i guess something needs to be done; thank you very much jim and organissimo for taking the trouble - my life is so much richer with this board!
Cliff Englewood Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 I'm sure this post will get deleted like most of the rest of them have been in this thread, but anyway, he never does what he says he's going to do, does he?
Svima Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Too much hand wringing. Move on folks. Yeah, show's over. I love this - from two of the most frequent offenders. Welcome to Hypocrisy.com. A couple of years ago, I think it was, I decided to stop participating in this forum because of all the hate expressed on it. Not just, "I disagree with your opinion, because...", but outright pathological hatred toward anyone who expressed an opinion contrary to the prevailing popular one. Plus, flagrant lies being posted, unchallenged by anyone. I was away for a couple of years and recently thought I'd try it again. Bad move. The same assholes are doing 90% of the posting, egged on by their sycophantic handful of "fans." This recent Stan Getz thread was the final straw. Larry Kart and Allen Lowe, if you were men, you'd issue a profound apology to Bev Getz, but for obvious reasons that's not going to happen. To the hatemongers, who appear to have nothing better to do than write hundreds of offensive posts per year, think about getting some professional help before it's too late. To Bev Getz: Don't waste your time here - read Doug Ramsey's Rifftides, or Marc Myers' JazzWax, or Ted Gioia's Jazz.com. Enough; once again (not that anyone cares), I'm outta here.
Tom 1960 Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 I've been more of a lurker on this thread but just wanted to quickly add my 2 cents and move on. Imagine what it would be like without this place to post? Pretty depressing prospect? Please guys I really enjoy this place. Let's lock down this thread and talk jazz. Let's do it for Jim.
JohnS Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) I've been more of a lurker on this thread but just wanted to quickly add my 2 cents and move on. Imagine what it would be like without this place to post? Pretty depressing prospect? Please guys I really enjoy this place. Let's lock down this thread and talk jazz. Let's do it for Jim. Yeah, I agree. Remember when we started? Jim did us all a favour by starting this board after the demise of the BNBB. Lots of us migrated here and we've been grateful to Jim ever since. I've been here since the start and although it's Jim's board we've made it ours too. I really enjoy this place, I don't upset anyone (I hope) and I don't get offended. I'm just interested in the music. I'm on holiday now for a couple of weeks, I want it to be here when I come back. Edited May 23, 2009 by JohnS
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index....l?videoId=24419
mjzee Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 I don't have much to add, but I do have some observations: 1) What some label as expressions of hate, others see as personality. You'll never parse them apart. The way that usually plays out is that different personalities gravitate to different message boards, because they click better there. Like it or not, the posts on this bulletin board usually reflect like-minded people. We love the personality. Except when it's gone too far; then there's a general sense of "oops, we've gone too far this time," kind of like 6 year olds without adult supervision. But most of the time, this serves us just fine. 2) The difference with the Getz thread is the human decency dimension: Bev Getz saying how it hurt her to read the stories posted about her father. Jim did the decent thing and deleted the thread. Good for him. Not a huge loss, and it serves everyone all around. 3) We're here to talk about music. Gossip is often mean-spirited and incorrect. 4) Jim gets a lot out of this bulletin board. I would never have heard of the band Organissimo otherwise. People in show business can often feel uncomfortable by the need for publicity, but being unknown is far worse.
John L Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 I just read through this thread for the first time. It is quite an upsetting read. To be honest, I never thought before about the possibility that what is posted on this forum could affect opportunities for Organissimo. Or, if anything, I thought that the effect would be unambiguously positive. I count myself among those who might not have started buying Organissimo records if this forum didn't exist. The problem is that there are serious tradeoffs here. The fact that this forum has provided a generally liberal environment for free interaction is one of the factors that has made it so great - the best jazz forum on the web. But that kind of a liberal environment always leads to conflicts of this sort, and a few posters always end up offending a good number of others. That goes with the territory. Sure, good moderation can keep it under control. But there are always tradeoffs. The question of what to do deserves some thought (IMO). As some have suggested, renaming the board and disassociating it with the band is one option. But I am not yet convinced that this board, on balance, has a negative influence on publicity and opportunities for the band.
rostasi Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Brother James and Brother Chuck as "most frequent offenders"?!!! Man, you've clearly have never been a part of this board!
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) I just read through this thread for the first time. It is quite an upsetting read. To be honest, I never thought before about the possibility that what is posted on this forum could affect opportunities for Organissimo. Or, if anything, I thought that the effect would be unambiguously positive. I count myself among those who might not have started buying Organissimo records if this forum didn't exist. The problem is that there are serious tradeoffs here. The fact that this forum has provided a generally liberal environment for free interaction is one of the factors that has made it so great - the best jazz forum on the web. But that kind of a liberal environment always leads to conflicts of this sort, and a few posters always end up offending a good number of others. That goes with the territory. Sure, good moderation can keep it under control. But there are always tradeoffs. The question of what to do deserves some thought (IMO). As some have suggested, renaming the board and disassociating it with the band is one option. But I am not yet convinced that this board, on balance, has a negative influence on publicity and opportunities for the band. Dude, the "jazz business" these days is "weirder" than it's ever been. Gigs are few and competition is fierce. Power, real power, business power, the kind that can make your life "comfortable" is highly, highly concentrated. "Hurt feelings" of the wrong person can indeed have an adverse effect on bookings & other opportunities, since the power brokers are more aware than ever that they hold all the power. The beauty of the internet is that it greatly democratizes the "ground floor", the getting in the game (and god, I've heard "get back in the game" so much lately on so many different commercials that it's making me ill...), but the reality is that once you want to break out of that "indie" scene, you gotta deal with reality - and that means "political correctness", or at least the jazz version of it. It's a game that most of us here either aren't aware of or have chosen not to play. But if Jim has decided that he needs to work that area in order to best provide for his family, I'll be the first to encourage him to go for it, even if it means changing/losing/whatever the board. A man's family always comes first, and as much as I've enjoyed the "keeping it real" vibe around here, it's a luxury I can easily live without (some perceptions to the contrary, I have a very satisfying life away from the computer ) if it means that the Alfredson, Gloss, & Marsh peoples get to take it to the next level career-wise. Or at least get to try to take it to the next level. Lots of hoops, but... Somebody else can always start another board for "us" if it comes to that. I've already got the perfect name, theme song, and logo: Edit to change "Gross" to "Gloss"...I've not yet had my Naproxen, and achy joints do contribute to a feeble mind, trut me! Edited May 23, 2009 by JSngry
jazzbo Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Dude, the "jazz business" these days is "weirder" than it's ever been. Gigs are few and competition is fierce. Power, real power, business power, the kind that can make your life "comfortable" is highly, highly concentrated. "Hurt feelings" of the wrong person can indeed have an adverse effect on bookings & other opportunities, since the power brokers are more aware than ever that they hold all the power. The beauty of the internet is that it greatly democratizes the "ground floor", the getting in the game (and god, I've heard "get back in the game" so much lately on so many different commercials that it's making me ill...), but the reality is that once you want to break out of that "indie" scene, you gotta deal with reality - and that means "political correctness", or at least the jazz version of it. It's a game that most of us here either aren't aware of or have chosen not to play. But if Jim has decided that he needs to work that area in order to best provide for his family, I'll be the first to encourage him to go for it, even if it means changing/losing/whatever the board. A man's family always comes first, and as much as I've enjoyed the "keeping it real" vibe around here, it's a luxury I can easily live without (some perceptions to the contrary, I have a very satisfying life away from the computer ) if it means that the Alfredson, Gloss, & Marsh peoples get to take it to the next level career-wise. Or at least get to try to take it to the next level. Lots of hoops, but... Absolutely.
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 But if Jim has decided that he needs to work that area in order to best provide for his family, I'll be the first to encourage him to go for it, ok, that's a rhetorical "first". Other people have already made the suggestion. Sorry.
fasstrack Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 As the person who started that thread, I have no problem with it being deleted, given the way things developed.How did they develop? Were certain things, er, 'overexposed'? It seemed cool last I looked.
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 As the person who started that thread, I have no problem with it being deleted, given the way things developed.How did they develop? Were certain things, er, 'overexposed'? It seemed cool last I looked. Dude, "our" definition of "overexposed" and that of others is probably nowhere near the same, if you know what I mean about "Jazz PC", and I think you do. But yeah, it got kinda ugly in all kinds of ways.
JSngry Posted May 23, 2009 Report Posted May 23, 2009 Aw shit, I'm getting jumpy now & not knowing who's gonna take what the wrong way... But... I'm neither implying nor declaring that Bev Getz herself is part of the "Jazz PC Patrol". That's certainly not my intent. I'm just saying that the jazz business is like any other business in that once you want to get out of the "ghetto" of local/indie/etc/whatever, then it's no different than for any other business these days, which is to say that egos must be stoked & feathers not get ruffled, at least not until one has earned enough power to afford to do so. A lot of people still think of jazz as this free-spirited world where fans alone make things happen, like Lion & Wolff. but no, those days are looooong gone, if indeed they ever existed in the romanticized form we like to think they did, which they probably didn't.
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