sacd question

[STAX]

I'm a real novice regarding this stuff so bear with me. I was looking at a sacd player and it said it was multichannel. I only have a 2 speaker stereo system. Does that mean that mutichannel sacds will play back as 2 channel stereo? The clerk at Best Buy who seemed to be a high school student said it wouldn't play back at all but that didn't seem right to me.

[Claude]

SACD is fully stereo-compatible. Those discs which have multichannel sound also have a stereo mix.

Most current SACDs only have stereo sound, because surround recording is only used with classical recordings and high-budget pop productions. Some quadro recordings from the 70s have also been put on multichannel SACDs. And there is also the controversial method of remixing old stereo recordings to multichannel (Bob Dylan "Blonde on Blonde").

The SACD player can be connected to a stereo amplifier with a stereo RCA cable or to a surround amplifier with an analog 5.1 RCA cable.

[STAX]

Thanks Claude. You should get a job at Best Buy. You know more than their clerks do.

[Little High People]

most single cell organisms know more that their clerks do!

[GregK]

I'm hoping that remixing older recordings in surround 5.1 doesn't catch on. What I have heard so far just doesn't sound right to me.

[Claude]

The advantage of SACD is that you can ignore the surround gimmickry and choose to listen to the stereo layer only.

[STAX]

most single cell organisms know more that their clerks do!

I went back to Best Buy this morning and based on what Claude told me I knew more than the clerk did. They should just make it self-serve and save money which they could pass on to the customer.

[Adam]

Well, that is their basic underlying philiosophy. That's why the clerks don't know nuttin'. It's like Costco, Walmart, etc.

[DrJ]

If you go into the surround mixes expecting them to sound like the stereo mixes, you're going to be disappointed. However, taken on their own, they can be fun for a change.

[jazzbo]

Here's a new entry that may well be my next source:

Decware SACD/Unversal player with tube output

IF I hadn't just ordered their new EL34 Monoblocks, I'd order this today! Deckert's tube stages are amazing.

[vibes]

Well, that is their basic underlying philiosophy. That's why the clerks don't know nuttin'. It's like Costco, Walmart, etc.

This is not accurate at all. Our clerks are supposed to know much more than their discount retailer counterparts, and are supposed to be able to give much more personalized service too. The company is currently doing tests in some markets with having employees that receive much more training and leeway to do their jobs, and the results have been fantastic thus far. I know there are some boardmembers that live in some of these markets, so they may have seen these special-format stores (I'm not at liberty to say where they are).

It's best to keep in mind that at this time of the year, chances are very likely that you're going to run into seasonal employees - those hired just for the holidays - when you go into a Best Buy. We have plans to hire more than 20,000 this year, chainwide. Anyway, seasonal employees aren't going to know much, especially about something more esoteric like SACD.

I should also note that SACD is not a focus for Best Buy, so I'm not at all surprised that the clerk wasn't able to give STAX accurate information. Most people have still never even heard of SACD. I'm glad to see that the company is giving the format a chance, but offerings are slim - we used to carry two Sony DVD players and one Sony home theater-in-a-box that had SACD capability, and I think we're down to one Sony HTiB and one Pioneer DVD/DVD-A/SACD player. I've been told the Pioneer model sells pretty well, which is good. The two Sony models we used to sell didn't do so great.

On the brighter side, SACD offerings in the Best Buy stores in my area are about 3-4x bigger than they were when I bought my player earlier this year. Most of the SACD's that have been released that have piqued my interest (mainly jazz titles from Universal, Blue Note, Fantasy) have been available at my local store, which is nice, because the standard CD format jazz section is pathetic at the local Best Buys.

[DrJ]

Lon, it's interesting that Deckert lists his modified SACD player as a PIONEER but everything else (other links) says SONY. I wonder if he changed his mind?

FWIW, I've been thrilled with my Pioneer Elite DV45A universal player.

[jazzbo]

Tony, that is just a error in the text; he also offers (put it out first) a Pioneer dvd player (link to Pioneer DVD) with the same modified tube output stage, and he has pasted in an incorrect line or two on that page that leads to information about the Pioneer.

One poster on the forum has had both Pioneer and Sony SACD/universal players and reported that the Sony had better SACD sound. I don't know if that was a factor for Steve's choosing the Sony player, but I'm seriously considering getting this next year sometime! I have seen how important the final amplification stage of a player is, and I don't want one that just has a tiny output stage. Steve's tubed stages are fantastic, so this should be a great bang for buck player.

Edited November 18, 2003 by jazzbo

[DrJ]

I'm sure the Deckert would be an upgrade over a stock machine (including mine), either Sony or Pioneer, I do believe this type of modification makes a big difference. This is making me salivate, to be honest, because the stock Pioneer DV45A sounds so great even on my rather modest system...I can only imagine how much better the modified Sony would sound!

The price for the Deckert seems VERY reasonable, too. I'm definitely keepin' this in mind for future upgrade (we'll be using the DV45A for a long time as a DVD player - I'm not a fanatic about having the best possible video quality - extra CD player, etc so it would be a win-win). I've been debating about going for some really high-end headphones (Grado RS-1's) given our little guy limits my music listening hours and will for some time, but I may just tough it out till he's a bit older and put the money into something like this instead, which honestly seems like a lot more potential bang for the buck in terms of system upgrade in the long run.

Edited November 18, 2003 by DrJ

[STAX]

I gave up on buying a sacd player and bought a dvd recorder instead. But all the help I got on this board about sacd is appreciated.

[Rooster_Ties]

Recently a friend of mine (who is an audio nut) was showing me his SACD player (which I think he's had for at least a year, maybe longer).

And we go to play some discs on it - and it turns out the damn thing can't fast-forward CD's. Not SACD's, nor standard "plain jane" CD's either. You can skip forward and backward to the beginnings of tracks, but not FF into a track, or the reverse of that - to relisten to a section of a track again.

I can't remember what brand it was, but it was a widespread brand name (like Sony, or Techiques) or something similar.

Somebody tell me that all SACD players aren't like that???

Maybe he was an "early adopter" of the technology, and the first generation players couldn't do that -- though for the life of me, I can't imagine why. Seems like the simplist thing ever, since CD players have been doing FF quite well for something like 20 years.

On a side note - I played him a bootleg recording (a burn of something I got from somebody here on the board), of a jazz concert from the early 80's, clearly taken off the sound board. And this was a burn of something that (to the best of my knowledge) hasn't ever even been 'released' on a bootleg label, or grey-market release anywhere.

Now this guy is a HUGE nut for getting everything he can in what he thinks is THE very best version of every release, be it SACD, or DSD(?), or Japanese imports, or whatever the latest flavor of the month is.

So I'm playing him this burn of an underground recording from the early 80's (on his mega-system), and the guy's jaw nearly hits the floor - cuz the Sound Quality on my underground recording is amazing, totally amazing. You could release this puppy today, "as is", without any remastering.

People who are more about the "sound quality" - and less about the music --- really bug me, clearly. (Sorry to be on a bit of a rant, but this seemed like as good a thread as any to mention this in.)

[Claude]

Maybe the fast-forward buttons were only available on the remote control, and not on the player front. That's the case with the Sony SCD-XA777ES, a popular high end SACD player.

Every SACD player should be able to fast-forward, like all CD players do.

Edited November 19, 2003 by Claude