OK! OK! The BFT ain't going anywhere!

[Big Al]

After discussing with mikeweil and seeing the waning interest in the BFT, we have decided that December 2009 will be the last BFT until further notice. Before the dworkin's post today, we hadn't had a new BFT compiler sign up in ages. A revised schedule will be posted shortly as soon as I can work out with the dworkin when he's going to lead his BFT.

It's been fun, folks. Maybe a long break is what this needs, and then hopefully it'll come back at full strength.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Big Al

[Dan Gould]

I'm frankly a little surprised that you two came to such a unilateral decision together and then declared that final decision. Of course there is no question that interest in BFTs has waned substantially, and no one is scheduled beyond December of this year - but maybe before pulling the plug we should give people a chance to express an opinion about it, maybe give a final chance for compilers to sign up?

I harbor no illusions its going to last much longer, I just think it goes against the M.O. of the board to have a decision be taken by the two people who have been the "Keepers of the Links" rather than broaching the subject publicly and reaching a conclusion collaboratively.

[AllenLowe]

who's gonna hold on to the whips and chains?

[Hot Ptah]

I would like to contribute a Blindfold Test, and have written out draft lists of what I imagine to be great cuts to include on it.

However, I am hopeless with technology, and have no idea how to get the music from my CDs to the members who would receive the Blindfold Test.

My 12 year old says that I am a dinosaur with computers. She is right.

If anyone could give me a private message lesson in how to do it, I would like to contribute a Blindfold Test.

[AllenLowe]

I'll never do it - someone will on a Charlie Parker, and I'll give it no stars and say "I hate Richie Cole."

[Dan Gould]

I would like to contribute a Blindfold Test, and have written out draft lists of what I imagine to be great cuts to include on it.

However, I am hopeless with technology, and have no idea how to get the music from my CDs to the members who would receive the Blindfold Test.

My 12 year old says that I am a dinosaur with computers. She is right.

If anyone could give me a private message lesson in how to do it, I would like to contribute a Blindfold Test.

Does your 12 year old know how to burn CDs? I'd bet she can explain it easier than a PM would.

[Jim R]

I'm frankly a little surprised that you two came to such a unilateral decision together and then declared that final decision. Of course there is no question that interest in BFTs has waned substantially, and no one is scheduled beyond December of this year - but maybe before pulling the plug we should give people a chance to express an opinion about it, maybe give a final chance for compilers to sign up?

I harbor no illusions its going to last much longer, I just think it goes against the M.O. of the board to have a decision be taken by the two people who have been the "Keepers of the Links" rather than broaching the subject publicly and reaching a conclusion collaboratively.

I'm kind of torn. I haven't really had the urge to put my name on the list since my one experience as a compiler/leader (BFT #3), but that had more to do with the length of the waiting list (something on the order of two years) the last time I considered the idea. I gradually became inactive for awhile as a general participant, but I haven't completely lost interest in participating (in fact I'm enjoying Dan's current test), and of course, hosting/compiling/leading (what the hell is the accepted term?!?) is where most of the fun is at. So, I would definitely consider doing another one. Like Hot Ptah, I'd want to learn how to upload, though. I think mailing CDR's all over the world is kind of too much trouble.

I think it would be an improvement if everybody stepped up their game in terms of a) Joining the discussion promptly; and b) being more interactive after the discussion starts (in other words, responding more actively to the comments/guesses made by others). It's fine when everybody posts once with their guesses, and then has one interaction with the leader, but if that's all there is... it gets a bit stale.

Also, this has probably been brought up in the past, but I think we face an obstacle in terms of the huge scope of the music we call "jazz". In my own experience, while I certainly fully respect the tastes of others and their right to choose whatever type of music they want, I have often been at a total loss to know what to do with (for example) 2 CD's worth of free/avant garde music. It's my own limitation, my own "fault" for not being able to hang in that kind of discussion, but there's really not much I can do about it, other than not signing up if I happen to know the taste of the leader ahead of time. I think I was surprised at the number of tests which included a significant amount of music that was outside my realm of knowledge and interest. I probably should have expected that, and I know it's only natural, but nonetheless it resulted in a certain level of decline in my own personal interest in participating. If there's a solution to this "problem", I haven't figured it out yet. And btw, I'm sure there are numerous members out there who may see this "problem" in reverse (people who gagged when they heard my disc). Anyway, fwiw...

I'm glad this discussion has come up. Hopefully this thing can be revived, because it really can be a lot of fun.

[rostasi]

I have no ideas.

[Big Al]

I'm frankly a little surprised that you two came to such a unilateral decision together and then declared that final decision. Of course there is no question that interest in BFTs has waned substantially, and no one is scheduled beyond December of this year - but maybe before pulling the plug we should give people a chance to express an opinion about it, maybe give a final chance for compilers to sign up?

I harbor no illusions its going to last much longer, I just think it goes against the M.O. of the board to have a decision be taken by the two people who have been the "Keepers of the Links" rather than broaching the subject publicly and reaching a conclusion collaboratively.

I understand where you're coming from, but so far you're the only one who's bothered by the decision. Nothing's set in stone, though; I'd love it if interest picked up. The note on the signup thread says "FINAL BFT for now." Personally, I hope that changes; however, of those who are signed up, only three or four have responded saying they're still planning on doing their month.

Besides, which thread title do you think would generate more interest: "Should we continue with the BFT?" or "BFT to be put on indefinite hiatus."

[JSngry]

I'm regaining interest in participating, especially now that things are uploadable/downloadable. Had a long phase where I had neither the time nor too much interest, but that's evolving back again. Didn't sign up again because the last time I looked,the list was full for at least a decade or so (or so it seemed...).

I'd like to keep it alive in some form or fashion. If feasable.

[tkeith]

Not to be disrespectful, but I'm going to side with Dan's perspective on this. I've really enjoyed these and I would have signed up to do another, but I didn't want to Bogart that role.

I don't find the format stale -- I read all the comments right up until the answers are posted -- I've just never figured it was my place to comment on someone's guesses. I don't mind doing so, but I figured that was the role of the compiler.

Granted, the participation may be low, but is that any reason to disband the BFT? For the 6-8 that consistently do it, it seems to be enjoyable. One suggestion: Limit the BFT to one disc. If you really want to do two, sign up for a second test. I know mine was too long, so maybe that's part of the challenge -- make your statement in 80 minutes or less.

Regarding the range of tastes, some of the tests have driven me batshit, but I see that as a positive if I'm being exposed to different music. One way to limit the effect of an unfamiliar BFT would be the 1 CD time limit. Listening to 2 hours of avant garde or 20's music is perhaps too much. I like to be familiar with a test so that I have a fighting chance to make correct guesses, but I also enjoy being introduced to stuff I would not otherwise encounter. I truly hope the BFT makes a remarkable, Patrick Duffy-like recovery.

[Stereojack]

I've got to agree with Thom on this - let's insist that the BFT be limited to one disc. The main reason I dropped out is that I felt that two discs was too much of a tax on my time. Especially if it's two discs of music I don't like!

I'd be more inclined to participate if I know that one disc will be all I have to endure (or enjoy, as the case may be).

[Harold_Z]

I'd like to see the BFTs continue and I also agree with one disc "rule." Of late both my on line time and listening time has become limited but I would certainly make an effort with one disc.

[Dan Gould]

I disagree that two discs spent with music you don't like is a tax on your time. Nowhere is it written that you have to endure the entire tune(s). If they suck, they suck, and you should hit "next" while jotting down NMCOT.

Its two discs of tunes you enjoy that should take more of your time, because you'd actually want to listen to the whole thing. More time, with the compensation of more enjoyment.

[Stereojack]

I disagree that two discs spent with music you don't like is a tax on your time. Nowhere is it written that you have to endure the entire tune(s). If they suck, they suck, and you should hit "next" while jotting down NMCOT.

Except that if someone has gone to the trouble to include something, I feel I should at least allow them the consideration of listening to it all the way through. I try not to make hasty judgements without giving the music a chance. Of course, on the second listen (I always listen twice before making comments) I often hit the "next" button on some tracks!

[Dan Gould]

You're being too considerate, Jack. A compiler has put his personal musical preferences in front of you. He didn't rent your ears for two hours plus another go-through. You have far more autonomy (or should feel that you do) then you are giving yourself.

You don't owe anyone anything more than to listen as long as you can stand to listen. IMHO of course.

[Jim R]

In the past, there have been some compilers (Big Al comes to mind) who have offered a 2nd disc as a "bonus" option for those who have time for 2 discs. For those that don't want to take that on, no big deal that they sit out that discussion. I think it's the way to go. I enjoy the increased odds that I'll get hip to something new, and have more fun sleuthing.

I have never quite understood how an extra 80 minutes of music can be such a time burden over the span of time (a couple of weeks, on average?) that it takes to do a BFT discussion- especially in that most of us usually listen to music constantly anyway, but I guess everybody's different.

[thedwork]

After discussing with mikeweil and seeing the waning interest in the BFT, we have decided that December 2009 will be the last BFT until further notice. Before the dworkin's post today, we hadn't had a new BFT compiler sign up in ages. A revised schedule will be posted shortly as soon as I can work out with the dworkin when he's going to lead his BFT.

"the dworkin."

i'll keep an eye out or send me a private message and we can talk about it.

as far as the whole discussion on the hows and whys and ifs of the BFT here, i'm too much of a newbie here to feel like i should be saying what's what.

[Big Al]

After discussing with mikeweil and seeing the waning interest in the BFT, we have decided that December 2009 will be the last BFT until further notice. Before the dworkin's post today, we hadn't had a new BFT compiler sign up in ages. A revised schedule will be posted shortly as soon as I can work out with the dworkin when he's going to lead his BFT.

"the dworkin."

i'll keep an eye out or send me a private message and we can talk about it.

as far as the whole discussion on the hows and whys and ifs of the BFT here, i'm too much of a newbie here to feel like i should be saying what's what.

D'OH!!!! I should've taken the extra two or three seconds to make sure I knew what I was writing!

[Soul Stream]

My thought is that when someone wants to do one...it's "alive".... If it lays dormant for a year and then someone posts they're doing one...cool. No sense "declaring" it dead or anything else. It exists when it does.... Interests in the BFT and AOW ebb and flow...they are as active as the members make them. That's all natural. We shouldn't collectively feel pressure about these things. It's individual interest, so let's keep it up to individuals....

[clifford_thornton]

I just personally don't have the time to contribute to these. Most of my listening hours (which are few in a day, amazingly enough) are for things I'm trying to review. But I always look at what people are putting together on compilations and the reactions to the tracks in the hopes that someday I'll have the opportunity to participate.

[tkeith]

Except that if someone has gone to the trouble to include something, I feel I should at least allow them the consideration of listening to it all the way through. I try not to make hasty judgements without giving the music a chance. Of course, on the second listen (I always listen twice before making comments) I often hit the "next" button on some tracks!

Exactly. It was just a suggestion But where there's been diminished interest in both creation and participation, it seems to make sense to limit it to one disc -- the second disc could be a separate test down the road. As for the time -- believe it or not, 80 minutes is not exactly something I have just kicking around most weeks, let alone 160. If some do, that's great for them. 9 months out of the year, I typically don't.

[mikeweil]

OK! OK! The BFT ain't going anywhere! (Originally titled "BFT to be put on indefinite hiatus after 2009)

So that was all we needed ...