Conversations with Jim Anderson

[Jim Alfredson]

Michel, is the black box you refer to the one you got from my friend? It has a ground lift switch on it that may eliminate your buzzing.

I've been having a problem with mine but it's related to the Hammond, not the box. Since I move my B3 around constantly, the power line running from the panel in the back up to the interior of the organ has become worn and is basically putting 120V into the chassis of the organ (ie, the preamp's metal skin and such). This causes the direct box to blow any circuit the minute it's connected to another device, such as a mixer, since it's basically getting 120V from it's ground connection. The solution is to put new AC wire in the organ. I haven't done it yet since I haven't been using the direct box lately but I'll have to before we go into the studio again.

On our record the engineer used a combination of the direct box and a Neumann U87 on the bass rotor for the low end. I think it sounds pretty good although I'm excited about recording our next record. This time I'm going to use my newly acquired Leslie 21H instead of the 122. The 21H has more bass naturally as a result of it's more powerful amp and the field coil Jensen 15 inch woofer it employs.

It's going to be earth-shaking!!!

[David Williams]

One effective approach to the bassline/pedal clarity is German organist Barbara Dennerlein. She has a special midi pedal that she takes with her, and uses with any organ, and triggers that to a sample that she has of a bass player.

That's interesting. I heard her at the beautiful little Norwegian Church here in Cardiff a couple of years ago. I didn't suspect that the bass was sampled. Barbara gave a short talk about how the Hammond/Leslie works - can't remember if she mentioned the midi.

[michel devos]

Michel, is the black box you refer to the one you got from my friend?  It has a ground lift switch on it that may eliminate your buzzing.

I've been having a problem with mine but it's related to the Hammond, not the box.  Since I move my B3 around constantly, the power line running from the panel in the back up to the interior of the organ has become worn and is basically putting 120V into the chassis of the organ (ie, the preamp's metal skin and such).  This causes the direct box to blow any circuit the minute it's connected to another device, such as a mixer, since it's basically getting 120V from it's ground connection.  The solution is to put new AC wire in the organ.  I haven't done it yet since I haven't been using the direct box lately but I'll have to before we go into the studio again.

On our record the engineer used a combination of the direct box and a Neumann U87 on the bass rotor for the low end.  I think it sounds pretty good although I'm excited about recording our next record.  This time I'm going to use my newly acquired Leslie 21H instead of the 122.  The 21H has more bass naturally as a result of it's more powerful amp and the field coil Jensen 15 inch woofer it employs.

It's going to be earth-shaking!!!

No, unfortunately...I expect that switch would have solved the problem.I used a very common DI box that was loaned to me by another engineer.That put, provisionally, an end to my DI experience, but I'll certainly get back in touch with your friend.

Up to now, results are not up to expectations : another limiting factor is the interference of the club PA system, which sounds far from satisfactory : so what I'm trying to set up is a Hammond + guitar and drums trio in a quiet, medium reverberant place, where I'll have all the time I need for experiment.I keep in mind an early Jim Anderson recommendation for BK4007 mics standing very high level pressure..The only remaining problem is : find the suitable organ player...Pity you live so far away, Jim...

[jim anderson]

Had an interesting discussion with Dave Greene, concerning micing the top part of the Leslie.

His brother Ed Greene suggests putting the microphones 180º on the horns and Dave likes to put them at 90º.

Give both a shot.

JA

[Jim Alfredson]

Seems like 90º wouldn't cover enough. The Leslie horn would be away from the mics for 3/4ths of it's rotation.

Jim, my Leslie has a neat little circuit in it that was custom made for me by a fellow in Ann Arbor. It stops the Leslie horn and rotor in the same place every time so you don't have to worry about it being off-axis from the mic(s).

By the way, good to see you back here. Any interesting projects lately?

[SGUD missile]

I just found this thread ,so this is my first contribution:

Jim, I just wanted to thank you for the great re-mix you did recently

on Terry Gibbs new Mack Avenue project. I was one of the arrangers on the project

( I did the ballads ), and I was wondering what combination of reverb you used

to put some much needed perspective and imaging in to the string section overdubs ? ..were the background elements given their own chambers ?

I'm sure you are familiar with the initial mix and what you achieved was noticibly better ( there are still several wrong notes here and there, but I realize you cant fix everything ..especially notes buried in a given track)

Thanks!

Phil Kelly

[jim anderson]

Phil,

Thanks for the kind words. As you know, Terry has very definite ideas of what he wants!

I used the Sony 777 along with a couple of EMT plates as the basic reverbs.

On the Sony I used a custom reverb that I sampled for the last Patricia Barber project, "Verse" along with the St. John the Divine.

I didn't use any of the automation on the computer and brought all of the tracks out to the SSL K series console's faders. I always feel that using the mix bus on the computer lacks something that a good analogue console can provide.

You're right about giving the bg elements their own sound. The strings had a little longer 'verb than the soloists. I felt the strings should be lush and fill out the arrangements, as you had intended.

I also have to give a nod to Scott Hull's mastering on the project. His gear always sounds great on this kind of project.

As far as new projects: I'm in the middle of a project with Tim Hagans and his Norbotten Big Band and the Swedish folk group Väsen. We'll be in Piteå, Sweden, in July to finish mixing and in September Patricia Barber's new cd will be released: "A Fortnight in France". It was recorded on her recent tour in 24/96 and I delivered the mixes for mastering in the same format.

She's got some great new songs. My favorite is the opening number "Gotcha". Typical Patricia: humorous, intelligent, pithy...

There's a couple of Chinese traditional music projects on FIM, the latest of which is on SACD in stereo and surround, along with 2 others that are in the can and will be released over the next year or so.

Also a new project for Mack Avenue, Sean Jones, that should be out by now. Pete Malinverni on Reservoir and a TV show on PBS "In Performance at the White House" featuring Natalie Cole.

All that, along with the new program at NYU (The Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music) and I have enough on my plate!

Best

JA

[jazzhound]

Jim

Can you recall any details of Birds Of A Feather cd you mixed? I love the sound of this recording! So much air on the horns ! Mics used? (I can't tell by the pics.)

I guess the mastering had alot to do with it too.

Edited June 8, 2004 by jazzhound

[jim anderson]

Dear Jazzhound,

Thanks for the kind words, but I must give the credit to Troy Halderson. Due to a scheduling snafu, I wasn't available for the original recording. Thanks to Don Sickler and Roy Haynes, they asked me to come in and mix the project. I do know that Troy likes the classic Neumann M 49's that they have on hand at Clinton (they came from Columbia's 32nd street studios, as they have etched 'CBS' and an inventory number on them) for horns. (I always like to imagine that the one you're using is the one pictured in the classic photo of Miles listening to a playback in the studio). The one thing that I did was to insist on using analogue tape for the master. That may be supplying some of the air that you're hearing!

Best

JA

[Jim Alfredson]

Good to see you here again, JA!

[jim anderson]

My friend and collegue David Baker died this past summer.

I was asked by the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society to reflect on his passing for their publication and this is what I wrote:

David Baker, a noted audio engineer, who specialized in jazz, member of the Society and friend, died at the age of 58 in Rochester, New York on July 14, 2004.

In the jazz world there are two David Bakers by name: one a leading composer from the University of Indiana and the other an unparalleled engineer. To those of us who knew “Baker”, there was only one.

David was born into the audio business as his father, Harry, owned Baker Audio in Atlanta. The company specialized in audio installations for home and professionals. David fondly recalled how, as a young boy, his father would take him to public spaces where he was responsible for the public address installation. The pair would stand and listen for a moment to the public address system and its quality. Harry Baker would exclaim to his young son: “That’s my sound!” Looking back, I believe, that’s where David started his quest to find his own sound. In the back room at Baker Audio, David began experimenting with an Ampex 600 series tape recorder. His living in the south and his audio explorations would eventually lead to his documenting moments in the civil rights struggle of the 60’s. The recordings resulted in the aural history album “Movement Soul” which was released by Folkways.

David rarely spoke of his training at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto or at the Institute of Audio Research in New York City, but I’m sure he felt that his real education began at the Apostolic Studios, which were a part of Vanguard Records in the 60’s and 70’s. At Vanguard, David worked with many of the influential rock and jazz performers of the day. My first sightings of his credit for engineering were on “Introducing Larry Coryell and the 11th House” and “Jaco” with Jaco Pastorius, Pat Metheny and Paul Bley in the mid 1970’s. With recordings such as those to his name, he was, in my mind, already a legend.

During the early 1980’s, David was no longer to me a credit line on a recording but a close and trusted friend. I remember seeing his date book listing his work for a month. There listed in his upcoming work was a Who’s Who in the world of jazz: Art Blakey, Joe Henderson, Jack DeJohnette, Dave Liebman, Tommy Flanagan, Art Farmer, Elvin Jones, John Abercrombe, Max Roach...one could only dream to work with musicians of such a caliber.

David was always busy and always in demand in the studio. If I knew David was working, I would drop by the studio to watch him work and take a look at his layout of musicians and his microphone arrangement. He played a recording studio like a musical instrument and he was never afraid to let anyone, musicians, technicians and producers alike, have the benefit of his knowledge. David always remarked that there were no secrets or mystery in audio and anyone that tried to say that there were, was a charlatan.

David was also never afraid to have or give his honest opinion. I recently asked producer Michael Cuscuna about pianist Don Pullen’s final recording “Sacred Common Ground” which Michael produced and David recorded in Power Station’s Studio C in 1994. He told me this story: The recording was a rather complicated arrangement with Native American drummers and singers, African percussionists, and jazz instrumentalists all recorded direct to two track. Late in the session, which was early in the morning, around 3 am, a tired and confused Don Pullen asked Michael, “What do you think?” Cuscuna replied that he wasn’t certain and he turned the question back to Don. Pullen had no idea, either. Don then asked David for his input. “I don’t know, Don” was the response from David and then he left the control room to get some air. When David had gone Don shook his head and said to Michael: “For twenty-five years, he’s been giving me his opinion when I never asked for it and now that I ask for it, he doesn’t have one!”

And now that David has left the room, I’d like to hear his opinion one more time.

He is survived by his wife, Kyoko, four sisters, and a couple thousand wonderful recordings.

-Jim Anderson

Edited October 18, 2004 by jim anderson

[Joe G]

Thanks for posting that, Jim.

I remember an NPR segment on that Don Pullen session after the album came out. Pretty wild stuff; no wonder nobody knew what to think of it!

[Jim Alfredson]

David Baker's sound is one of utmost clarity, space, and respect for the instruments and musicians. The records he engineered are testatments to craft and quality and a love of music.

Thank you, Jim, for posting this. Do you mind if I link to this on other forums?

[jim anderson]

Dear B3-ER,

Please be my guest.

JA

[jazzhound]

Hey Jim;

How would you feel about a "most common mistakes made by audio engineers" thread. My guess it would be most enlightening.

You could add to it as they came to mind at your leisure.

[jim anderson]

Ok.

I'll get things started:

The first most common mistake by engineers that I notice is not checking the polarity of the bass di in relation to the microphone, when recording the acoustic bass. The inverse polarity can cause notes to totally disappear or generally make the sound very thin. Another is using a di in which the input impedance is too low, causing a loading which could cause a distortion of the frequency response of the pickup.

These kind of problems have been the reason for certain producers calling the bass di 'dreaded'.

And you know who they are!

I use bass di all the time and in one of my mixes on the recording console you can turn off the bass di and it really won't be noticed that it's gone. A feeling of support will have vanished.

JA

[jim anderson]

What are some of the problems that you encounter in your listening?

[SGUD missile]

What are some of the problems that you encounter in your listening?

Hi Jim:

As far as "listening" is concerned, my biggest problem is compensating for the changes in my hearing some 40 years of studio work ( as a player, producer and arranger /composer ) have brought ( along with age and a spot of tinntiniius as well )

I like "bright " mixes ..but being aware of my age, I always tell mixers to "keep me honest" because left to my own devices, I will tend to overdo the top end of mixes ( especially on stuff like cymbals, high end acoustic guitar sounds and percussion )

The way I judge mixes these days ( especially master dubs ) is to bring them home and listen to everything through the same head set ( a med. priced Sennheiser ..dunno the model # ) and a set of JBL 4313 (?) monitors in a different room ..

do you have any more suggestions along these lines.. for us "aging" jazz producers ?

[Jim Alfredson]

I use a custom made DI for the Hammond organ to do exactly what you describe, Jim; just add "support" to the low end. Phase problems are always a concern, especially with a rotating speaker!!

[jazzhound]

What are some of the problems that you encounter in your listening?

The "can't hear the forest cause of the trees" sound on drums created by close miking techniques.

there aren't too many records where the listener gets a "picture" of the drum set such as on Miles 60's records or Led Zep. It seems that backing off the mics get a more dynamic sound also. It isn't easy but it seem like most engineers and producers have just given up on getting this on tape.

[jim anderson]

The mics on the Miles records were about as close to the drums, then, as they are today. Drummers play differently now, than they did back then in the studio. Try to get a drummer to play in the proper dynamic (or any musician in the group, for that matter) of the group that they're in. It's next to impossible. Mostly it's because these groups recording today are only brought together for the sake of a recording and aren't bands that tour and play together extensively. It's my observation. Most of the records from the 50's and the 60's the drummers are tippin'.

JA

[SGUD missile]

The mics on the Miles records were about as close to the drums, then, as they are today. Drummers play differently now, than they did back then in the studio. Try to get a drummer to play in the proper dynamic (or any musician in the group, for that matter) of the group that they're in. It's next to impossible..... snip..... Most of the records from the 50's and the 60's the drummers are tippin'.

JA

Another factor involving studio drummers in the 60s ( when I actually was one ) was

dealing with a much more open recording environment where bleed became a big factor

if you played too loud ..everyone was in the room at once, and in many cases, gobos and baffling-were somewhat rudimentary. Couple that with" listening" to the ensemble ( without any cue ) which was most likely spread out over an area, and factoring in the delay time in the room,

most studio guys I knew learned to play VERY lightly to achieve a good drum sound.

All that , coupled with the fact that minimal drum miking was used ( usually one or two overheads, a snare/hi hat mike, and a BD mike ), it was part of the drummers gig to achieve his own balances live.

as an aside and somewhat off subject: one of my pet peeves these days is that very few mixers on jazz dates have a conception of what a jazz drum kit should actually sound like especially the proper sound of a ride cymbal. :rsmile:

[jazzhound]

The mics on the Miles records were about as close to the drums, then, as they are today. Drummers play differently now, than they did back then in the studio. Try to get a drummer to play in the proper dynamic (or any musician in the group, for that matter) of the group that they're in. It's next to impossible. Mostly it's because these groups recording today are only brought together for the sake of a recording and aren't bands that tour and play together extensively. It's my observation. Most of the records from the 50's and the 60's the drummers are tippin'.

JA

I guess what I am hearing is the leakage into the other mics like on Miles in the Sky album. This is missing is today's recordings with more isolation.

Most engineers I have worked with wanted me to play louder that I do in live situations. I generally found the harder I hit the drums, the better the drum sound. I remember one jerk kept telling me to hit harder and harder... meanwhile he had the drums going thru compressors! Then he missed getting one of the best takes I ever did.

Anyone know where the discussion with Jim about studio equipment purchasing is? Was it on the Blue Note board..It related to a ProTools set up. I think it was for a school studio.

I may be getting back into the studio business

[mikeweil]

The mics on the Miles records were about as close to the drums, then, as they are today. Drummers play differently now, than they did back then in the studio. Try to get a drummer to play in the proper dynamic (or any musician in the group, for that matter) of the group that they're in. It's next to impossible. Mostly it's because these groups recording today are only brought together for the sake of a recording and aren't bands that tour and play together extensively. It's my observation. Most of the records from the 50's and the 60's the drummers are tippin'.

JA

Very interesting. My experience is that it takes two totally different approaches to playing depending on whether you have to play softly or not. It is much harder to really groove and play soft at the same time, which I have to do with one of the groups I'm playing in. As a consequence I do not use any dampening on my drumset - which drives engineers crazy. But it is much more resonant and the tone is warmer. I disagree with jazzhounds view that a drum sounds the better the harder you hit - this works only with plastic heads and muffled drums. I use REMO Renaissance heads which imitate the sound of calfskin heads, and sometimes it sounds pretty much like a 1950's drumset, the sound of which on records I like very very much. If you hit too hard you get more noise in the tone.

[jim anderson]

That leakage is unobtainable, for the most part, due to the way recordings are made, these days, and the way bands perform.

Part of the problem is that everybody wants to fix everything and that's the reason for the lack of leakage. Everyone's in a different booth, or room, scattered around the studio. Many times, I can sense a lack of concentration or commitment in a track because, collectively, it's known that we can go in and replace the bass, for example (not to pick on bass players...well, why not pick on bass players?), or get a better version of the head from the horns.

So that chance at natural leakage is long gone.

I can think of quite a few Blue Note albums that have some major clams in them and they're, sometimes, my favorite part of the track.

I was working on a vocalist project over the summer and I remarked to the assistant (as I was making a fix on the protools) "No one makes mistakes anymore. Everything's 'perfect'."