Conversations with Jim Anderson

[AllenLowe]

thick, wide, depends on your angle of view (I'm usually horizontal) -

I really think DBX deadens things a bit, even when well-calibrated, though I made a nice-sounding recording with 16 track/DBX for Enja, at Systems 2 in Brooklyn back in the 1990s - another thing with DBX, if not done exactly right (and this may be a consumer issue), there is some audible distortion introduced on occassion, sometimes it can only be heard with headphones, but it is there - seems to have a problem with horns, on one tape my tenor was producing a slight bit of extra honk - it was not me, I assure you, but some weired noise-reduction artifact.

if I had the money and time I would get an old Ampex two track with the thickest tape possible - all tube with tube microphone pre-amps. Though I did make a really nice recording at Systems Two again, about 2 years ago, to disc, digital 24/96; what really made it turn out well was the fact that they used a Neumann tube on the alto, plus the fact that it's a wonderfully old-fashioned room - nice woody acoustics, lively enough but not too lively, just enough to let the musicians hear themselves correctly (which has a MAJOR impact on how much you can do when mixing, as over-compensation for a dead room has caused me problems on more than one post-production occassion) -

[jim anderson]

The general artifact with dbx was 'breathing' due to the heavy compression of the compander. If I remember correctly, the compression ratio was 2:1. The 16 track was probably a Tascam 1" machine. dbx was in the machine. The distortion can sometimes come from pushing the headroom of the noise reduction card. That's why, today, Dolby recommends 185nw as the record level for Dolby SR. Raising the level on tape doesn't gain anything except the potential of distortion.

The thing about dbx was that it was said that the playback machine output level didn't require calibration. Perhaps that was true, but what they didn't say was that if there was a mismatch in the playback eq, there were serious consequences. There was an album released on the Arista Freedom label (can't remember the artist) in the mid 70's where the dbx master tape wasn't decoded in mastering. Needless to say, the vinyl was unlistenable.

I did make one recording in the 80's with the Telecom noise reduction system. Now, that's obscure.

Interesting, that when I would use Neumann U47's and U49's the comment from the musician was that it the sound was 'bright.' I've taken to using various ribbons: Coles, RCA's and haven't had the 'bright' comment in a while.

Edited July 18, 2008 by jim anderson

[AllenLowe]

I've heard things like that - a little like not decoding Dolby C, as I recall - kind of has a weird, distant, compressed quality - like listening in a tunnel -

meant to ask you, Jim - did you know David Baker? He died last year, as I recall; he recorded us at the Knitting Factory back in the early 1990s; I always got on well with him, though he could be a bit prickly. He was one of the guys who seemed to bring back the whole concept of going "live" to two-track in the 1980s - after everyone had turned to multi-track - I don;t think he gets enough credit today -

Edited July 18, 2008 by AllenLowe

[jim anderson]

David Baker and I were good friends from the time I came to New York (1982) until his passing. Photographer John Abbot took a shot of us up in Avatar Studio C in June of 2004. I was working downstairs and he was up in C. He was engineering a live 5.1 session. Of course, it sounded great.

He was 58 and died July 14, 2004. He was in Rochester, NY working on a project and had an apparent heart attack in the night.

I wrote a column for the AES Journal and I'll post it, here. It's on the other computer in the office.

There are some recordings that we engineered for producer Bob Belden: "Shades of Blue" + "Shades of Red"

Bob liked the idea that on one recording you could compare the work (all 2 track) of David Baker, myself, James Farber, James Nichols, Patrick Smith, Rudy van Gelder, etc. I feel the exceptional recording is Dave's opening track of Maiden Voyage with Dianne Reeves. It doesn't even sound like he's using microphones.

Edited July 18, 2008 by jim anderson

[AllenLowe]

thanks, would love to see the article - I recall he lived on Riverside Drive, I went to talk to him about the project he recorded for us - we were "Live" at the Knitting Factory - got there to do the recording and Mike Dorf, who had promised us plenty of setup time, had decided to rent out the room for a party - I was freaking out, but David got in there afterwards, and set the whole thing up in about 20 minutes and did a brilliant job (had Julius Hemphill on the date, came out as a CD a few months later) - incredible work - also, and I always remembered this, he was the only engineer I ever worked with who knew how to use compression on a jazz date - it was quite transparent, beautifully done.

one thing I remember - he told me that night that he had made numerous recordings during the Civil Right era, of events, people, songs, etc - that had not, as I recall, ever come out - do you know what has happened to this material?

Edited July 18, 2008 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

also, about Ribbons versus tube/condensers - my problem with ribbons on saxophone is that it seems to lose some body - whereas the condenser lets you hear the full texture of the horn - on brass it's a different thing, as ribbons won't overload so easily - maybe a bit bright with the Neumann, but that can be eq'd slightly -

[jim anderson]

The album was called "Movement Soul:Live Recordings of Songs and Sayings from the Freedom Movement in..." and was originally released by ESP.

Here's the All Music link:

http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:09foxqyhldse

Here's the Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000005TD...1-4&seller=

When the CD version was released, David was interviewed by Terry Gross on Fresh Air. I've heard the interview, but haven't been able to locate a link for listening.

The reason I do this blog, is primarily from David. When I first came to town, David and I were talking. He had heard my work on NPR's Jazz Alive! and was interested in getting to know me. We talked about technique and other engineers. He said to me: "There's no magic, when it comes to audio engineering, and anyone who tries to hide anything from you really doesn't know what they're doing."

He was open to talking about technique and I've tried to follow his lead.

Edited July 20, 2008 by jim anderson

[AllenLowe]

thanks for the link, Jim, I will order that - and David was indeed one of the nicest and most open people I ever met, happy to talk about the "secrets" -

Edited July 22, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Jim Alfredson]

Jim, thanks for the memories about David Baker. His work is exquisite.

I'm sitting in Glenn Brown's studio right now, mixing a live Root Doctor release. Glenn met you in 2005 at the AES convention in NYC. We're mixing on his beautiful 1978 32 channel Neve 8068.

[GregN]

Jim, thanks for the memories about David Baker. His work is exquisite.

I'm sitting in Glenn Brown's studio right now, mixing a live Root Doctor release. Glenn met you in 2005 at the AES convention in NYC. We're mixing on his beautiful 1978 32 channel Neve 8068.

I was mixing... you were playing around with the laptop.

[jim anderson]

Will you guys be coming out to San Francisco for the AES Convention in October?

If so, let's get together.

Here's a link for more information

http://www.aes.org/events/125/

Edited August 1, 2008 by jim anderson

[jim anderson]

Here's the article that I wrote for the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society:

August 2004

David Baker, a noted audio engineer, who specialized in jazz, member of the Society and friend, died at the age of 58 in Rochester, New York on July 14, 2004.

In the jazz world there are two David Bakers by name: one a leading composer from the University of Indiana and the other an unparalleled engineer. To those of us who knew “Baker”, there was only one.

David was born into the audio business as his father, Harry, owned Baker Audio in Atlanta. The company specialized in audio installations for home and professionals. David fondly recalled how, as a young boy, his father would take him to public spaces where he was responsible for the public address installation. The pair would stand and listen for a moment to the public address system and its quality. Harry Baker would exclaim to his young son: “That’s my sound!” Looking back, I believe, that’s where David started his quest to find his own sound. In the back room at Baker Audio, David began experimenting with an Ampex 600 series tape recorder. His living in the south and his audio explorations would eventually lead to his documenting moments in the civil rights struggle of the 60’s. The recordings resulted in the aural history album “Movement Soul” which was released by Folkways.

David rarely spoke of his training at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto or at the Institute of Audio Research in New York City, but I’m sure he felt that his real education began at the Apostolic Studios, which were a part of Vanguard Records in the 60’s and 70’s. At Vanguard, David worked with many of the influential rock and jazz performers of the day. My first sightings of his credit for engineering were on “Introducing Larry Coryell and the 11th House” and “Jaco” with Jaco Pastorius, Pat Metheny and Paul Bley in the mid 1970’s. With recordings such as those to his name, he was, in my mind, already a legend.

During the early 1980’s, David was no longer to me a credit line on a recording but a close and trusted friend. I remember seeing his date book listing his work for a month. There listed in his upcoming work was a Who’s Who in the world of jazz: Art Blakey, Joe Henderson, Jack DeJohnette, Dave Liebman, Tommy Flanagan, Art Farmer, Elvin Jones, John Abercrombe, Max Roach...one could only dream to work with musicians of such a caliber.

David was always busy and always in demand in the studio. If I knew David was working, I would drop by the studio to watch him work and take a look at his layout of musicians and his microphone arrangement. He played a recording studio like a musical instrument and he was never afraid to let anyone, musicians, technicians and producers alike, have the benefit of his knowledge. David always remarked that there were no secrets or mystery in audio and anyone that tried to say that there were were, was a charlatan.

David was also never afraid to have or give his honest opinion. I recently asked producer Michael Cuscuna about pianist Don Pullen’s final recording “Sacred Common Ground” which Michael produced and David recorded in Power Station’s Studio C in 1994. He told me this story: The recording was a rather complicated arrangement with Native American drummers and singers, African percussionists, and jazz instrumentalists all recorded direct to two track. Late in the session, which was early in the morning, around 3 am, a tired and confused Don Pullen asked Michael, “What do you think?” Cuscuna replied that he wasn’t certain and he turned the question back to Don. Pullen had no idea, either. Don then asked David for his input. “I don’t know, Don” was the response from David and then he left the control room to get some air. When David had gone Don shook his head and said to Michael: “For twenty-five years, he’s been giving me his opinion when I never asked for it and now that I ask for it, he doesn’t have one!”

And now that David has left the room, I’d like to hear his opinion one more time.

He is survived by his wife, Kyoko, four sisters, and a couple thousand wonderful recordings.

-Jim Anderson

President Elect Audio Engineering Society

[Jim Alfredson]

Will you guys be coming out to San Francisco for the AES Convention in October?

If so, let's get together.

Here's a link for more information

http://www.aes.org/events/125/

We were talking about that yesterday; may be a possibility.

Thanks for the article on David Baker. Very nice.

[AllenLowe]

funny about Vanguard, where,as you mentioned, David worked - because I remember we were having a very long talk about classic recordings and the rooms they were recorded in - and we both happened to share a dislike for some of the 1950s Vanguards, which were recorded in a room that was just a little bit too reverberant - to this day I find some of those hard to listen to -

thanks, Jim for that article; though I lost touch with David, I always remembered him as one of the truly great guys to work with -

[jim anderson]

funny about Vanguard, where,as you mentioned, David worked - because I remember we were having a very long talk about classic recordings and the rooms they were recorded in - and we both happened to share a dislike for some of the 1950s Vanguards, which were recorded in a room that was just a little bit too reverberant - to this day I find some of those hard to listen to -

The room that was used for classical music by Vanguard was just up the street from the Vanguard studio on 23rd Street (east of 6th Avenue on the north side) in the Masons meeting room (which I remember as being on the 5th floor). The room was used extensively by Vanguard, and others, until the Masons decided to carpet the entire room. There were a few pop albums made there, also. I remember Dave Hewett from Record Plant Remote, at the time, telling me about a Joe Jackson album that they had tracked there. Also, Wynton Marsalis used it a few times when he couldn't get into RCA Studio A.

[kh1958]

Bebo Valdes & Javier Colina--Live at the Village Vanguard.

The recording really captures the ambiance of the Vanguard, and is in addition a fabulous performance by the great Cuban pianist. I wish I had been there but this recording makes me feel like I am there. Thanks.

[jim anderson]

Bebo Valdes & Javier Colina--Live at the Village Vanguard.

The recording really captures the ambiance of the Vanguard, and is in addition a fabulous performance by the great Cuban pianist. I wish I had been there but this recording makes me feel like I am there. Thanks.

Thanks. I've worked with Bebo many times in the studio and this was the first instance of working with him live. He performed only one set per night, but that set was usually 2 and a half hours long! We recorded for 3 nights and what you're hearing is the best from the three. We set up the Effanel truck on 7th Avenue and recorded from there. All of the microphones were amplified from the stage and the A/D/Fiber optic conversion happened there, as well. In the truck, we recorded on redundant Pro-Tools rigs and a set of DA-98 tapes for further redundancy. A little while later, we met and mixed the whole project in a day at Avatar Studio B. My favorite track is "Bilongo." The audience reaction is incredible as they realize they know this tune from many years ago and they sing along. It was the only time this happened and it's a special moment in the album. I'd love to remix the album for surround and really put you in the crowd! I just got done remixing "Bebo de Cuba" for surround, this past summer. I'm hoping for a possible Blue Ray release on that.

If we're lucky we'll find ourselves with another Latin Grammy, tomorrow night, for our live from the Village Vanguard. Wish us luck!

Best,

Jim

[Jim Alfredson]

Jim, when you re-do an older album for surround, do you have to upsample the audio or where you prescient on most stuff and recording at higher bitrates?

[kh1958]

Good luck! I have Bebo de Cuba in my pile of as yet unheard CDs--as I now see, it is mixed by Jim Anderson.

[jim anderson]

Jim, when you re-do an older album for surround, do you have to upsample the audio or where you prescient on most stuff and recording at higher bitrates?

Jim,

We've done a little of both. When the original was recorded on a 3348 (Sony digital multitrack, only capable of 16/44.1 or 48) or some such format, I'll upsample it to take advantage of the higher rate for the effects, etc. And that's not that long ago!

Almost everything, these days is 24/96 at the very least.

We did manage to archive everything for the last 12 years at 24 bit. Some labels, such as Enja, have been taking advantage of that fact and reissuing that material with the higher bit rate as the source.

Those could be offered to other formats in the future, as well.

Jim

[jim anderson]

By the way, I've been elected to the presidency of the Audio Engineering Society.

I thought you might like to read my message to the members of the AES.

http://www.aes.org/journal/presidents_messages/

Also if I could encourage any of you to become members and become an active part of the Society, I will have done my job.

Best,

Jim

[Guest Bill Barton]

Bebo Valdes & Javier Colina--Live at the Village Vanguard.

The recording really captures the ambiance of the Vanguard, and is in addition a fabulous performance by the great Cuban pianist. I wish I had been there but this recording makes me feel like I am there. Thanks.

Thanks. I've worked with Bebo many times in the studio and this was the first instance of working with him live. He performed only one set per night, but that set was usually 2 and a half hours long! We recorded for 3 nights and what you're hearing is the best from the three. We set up the Effanel truck on 7th Avenue and recorded from there. All of the microphones were amplified from the stage and the A/D/Fiber optic conversion happened there, as well. In the truck, we recorded on redundant Pro-Tools rigs and a set of DA-98 tapes for further redundancy. A little while later, we met and mixed the whole project in a day at Avatar Studio B. My favorite track is "Bilongo." The audience reaction is incredible as they realize they know this tune from many years ago and they sing along. It was the only time this happened and it's a special moment in the album. I'd love to remix the album for surround and really put you in the crowd! I just got done remixing "Bebo de Cuba" for surround, this past summer. I'm hoping for a possible Blue Ray release on that.

If we're lucky we'll find ourselves with another Latin Grammy, tomorrow night, for our live from the Village Vanguard. Wish us luck!

Best,

Jim

Best of luck to you, Jim, and to Bebo Valdés & Javier Colina!!!!!

OMG, you're up against Kenny freakin' G .

And he's on the Starbucks label

Makes me ashamed to live in the Seattle area

Here's hoping some real Latin music wins.

[Jim Alfredson]

Jim, congratulations! That's fantastic! I hope to come to an AES convention someday. My good friend and studio-owner Glenn Brown loves going (he met you at the convention in 2006 in NYC).

Sidenote about high sample rate digital audio: Do you agree with Lavry that 192kHz is pointless and that really a sample rate of 60kHz would be more than adequate for digital audio? Do you use 96kHz because of the compatibility with DVD?

[jim anderson]

Jim, congratulations! That's fantastic! I hope to come to an AES convention someday. My good friend and studio-owner Glenn Brown loves going (he met you at the convention in 2006 in NYC).

Sidenote about high sample rate digital audio: Do you agree with Lavry that 192kHz is pointless and that really a sample rate of 60kHz would be more than adequate for digital audio? Do you use 96kHz because of the compatibility with DVD?

Thanks. I'm honored to have been elected to this post. There's been some amazing people in this position and I'm thrilled to have my chance.

My feeling is that it's the bit depth that really matters. The difference between 16 bit and 24 bit is truly dramatic and the higher sampling rate is really the icing on the cake. I use the 96K rate to get the highest reasonable sampling rate without the extraordinary size of the 192 files. The 96K rate is large enough without filling up the drive. Also, some PT rigs will limit you to the amount of tracks that you can run at 192 and that's not a problem with 96.

By the way, my recording of Gonzalo Rubalcaba, "Avatar," is in the same category as Bebo's Village Vanguard album. Watch, Kenny G will prevail.

Edited November 13, 2008 by jim anderson

[AllenLowe]

it's interesting because I have been doing some basement recordings with my masterlink, to 24/96; even with the machine's built-in converters there is a major improvement over 16/44 (or 48); until I did an A/B I had no real idea, and now it's hard to go back -