San Francisco free jazz / new music / outside jazz?

[johnlitweiler]

Is there a web site that lists free / outside jazz-new music-etc. events in the San Francisco Bay area? Or a Bay area paper with reliable entertainment lists? I'm going to be in SF April 16-20.

[BFrank]

Not specifically free or outside jazz, but you should check KCSM's datebook for a lot of listings.

[papsrus]

I remember stumbling across this site a while back.

Seems like it fits the bill.

(Kind of a miracle I was able to track it down again).

[clarke68]

I remember stumbling across this site a while back.

Wow...great list! I had no idea.

Thanks!

[nathan]

I believe all the info from this site feeds to the other site mentioned above, but I've noticed postings go up here immediately, so it may be a bit more filled out: http://www.bayimproviser.com/calendar.asp

[papsrus]

For all the hand-wringing over Yoshi's, it seems as though there's a pretty active creative music scene in San Francisco.

[nathan]

Yeah, while the venue situation is unstable and fairly grim, I would say that the talent pool is deep and a lot of the players have, out of necessity, become very creative at inventing playing opportunities. (The more free jazz oriented scene has been particularly skillful in creating various alternative venues and creative bills.) Anyone visiting for a few days should be able to catch a good gig or two.

nathan

[aparxa]

I will be there in August

Thanks for the recommendations

[johnlitweiler]

Thanks for the suggestions. It's interesting to read these and find that some of our former Wild Onions from Chicago, like Kyle Bruckman, Aram Shelton, and Weasel Walter, are now active Yerba Buenas.

[nathan]

Indeed! Aram is a MONSTER player.

[Johnny E]

For all the hand-wringing over Yoshi's, it seems as though there's a pretty active creative music scene in San Francisco.

Not being from SF, I'm not certain about this, but it appears that the Bay area has a thriving straight ahead scene but is seriously lacking in venues for the great outside players that reside there. Aram is a great player. The Monktailers are friends with him and we brought him up for the Sounds Outside festival last year.

Reptet had a weird experience in SF last month. We played at Amnesia Bar subbing for Mitch Marcus who runs a jam session there every Wednesday night. His band plays a set and then there is a open jam session afterward until closing. Well, we showed up in full regalia and irreverence. The place was packed (150-200 people), but they only had one person (the owner, who will go nameless) to run the bar, the sound and everything else. We believe that the people started getting restless because it took a half hour just to get a beer. We sold a shit load of CD's and the people seemed to love our stuff, but the crowd started to thin out toward the end of our set. Izaak was being Izaak and he said (from the stage) that we were going to be running a jam session afterward even though we don't really do it that and we don't like jazz anyway, etc. etc. Well, the owner thought we were serious and viewed us as a bunch of costume wearing freaks from Seattle that played weird stuff because we didn't know how to play our instruments. He blamed us for the crowd dwindling after our set was over. Some folks over heard a few straight ahead players (who had brought their horns) saying that they didn't want to stick around for the open session because we were some kind of lame ass freak shit from Seattle. We held the session and had fun. People were blown away that we could actually play bebop, WELL. Anyway, it left a bad taste in our mouths and made us feel that the straight ahead scene in SF is really closed minded as opposed to places like Chicago and Philly that have a much more open scene.

But again, I'm not from SF and that was just one experience.

[Jazzmoose]

I wouldn't say that's completely accurate, but on the other hand, from what I remember of my twentyfive years in the bay area, I'd say it's more accurate than inaccurate, Johnny. The Bay Area is definitely a "straight ahead jazz" place, and a lot of people are too full of themselves to allow for joking in something as *FUCKING IMPORTANT* as jazz. What you did would be like organizing a pro-Bush rally in People's Park!

[nathan]

Johnny E, sorry to hear that the Amnesia experience wasn’t that great…that place has some issues, not least of which (as you mention) is the fact that it often gets over-crowded without much in the way of bar staff (and let’s not even start on the bathroom situation). That said, I’ve always felt that -- with a few exceptions that stick out like the proverbial sore thumbs -- the straight ahead and free scenes in SF have a refreshing amount of overlap. That has certainly been my experience playing here, where almost every project I’ve ever played in has had a combination of players who fall on either side of the nebulous inside/outside line. I’m surprised that Reptet was made to feel out of place, especially at a club like Amnesia, that almost never has straight ahead jazz (the jam session is the only time). I’m not sure who the dismissive straight ahead players in the crowd were, but certainly Mitch (a true bad ass, in my humble opinion) and the guys in his band don’t fit that description…they all play in free settings, rock-influenced projects, etc. along with what passes for straight ahead jazz these days. Maybe it was just some jam session attendees who need to feel that they’re keeping the True Jazz Flame burning in order to feel justified and validated…who knows? Sorry the Bay Area wasn’t more hospitable to your fine band.

As for the Bay Area being a “straight ahead jazz” place…I don’t know. Maybe it was, but whatever the dispensation of players may be, the venue situation for straight ahead jazz is currently lagging well behind venues for more outside projects.

nathan

[Johnny E]

Johnny E, sorry to hear that the Amnesia experience wasn’t that great…that place has some issues, not least of which (as you mention) is the fact that it often gets over-crowded without much in the way of bar staff (and let’s not even start on the bathroom situation). That said, I’ve always felt that -- with a few exceptions that stick out like the proverbial sore thumbs -- the straight ahead and free scenes in SF have a refreshing amount of overlap. That has certainly been my experience playing here, where almost every project I’ve ever played in has had a combination of players who fall on either side of the nebulous inside/outside line. I’m surprised that Reptet was made to feel out of place, especially at a club like Amnesia, that almost never has straight ahead jazz (the jam session is the only time). I’m not sure who the dismissive straight ahead players in the crowd were, but certainly Mitch (a true bad ass, in my humble opinion) and the guys in his band don’t fit that description…they all play in free settings, rock-influenced projects, etc. along with what passes for straight ahead jazz these days. Maybe it was just some jam session attendees who need to feel that they’re keeping the True Jazz Flame burning in order to feel justified and validated…who knows? Sorry the Bay Area wasn’t more hospitable to your fine band.

As for the Bay Area being a “straight ahead jazz” place…I don’t know. Maybe it was, but whatever the dispensation of players may be, the venue situation for straight ahead jazz is currently lagging well behind venues for more outside projects.

nathan

It's OK. It really was just the bar owner. If he had had a different attitude we would have looked at this gig as a great success. I know that comments made by a few musicians are not necessarily indicative of the scene as a whole. And yeah, the bathroom situation there is ridiculous - the women’s room does not lock and when it opens anyone on the stage or close to it can see right in - it made Sam very uncomfortable to say the least.

I'm glad to hear that SF does in fact have a inside/outside scene that is supportive of each other and cross-pollinates. As I said, this is not my city so my opinion of it is based on limited experience. But to elaborate, it seemed that the limited negative response we got was not necessarily a reaction to our tendency to play inside/outside music, but rather to our stage show with all our over-the-top irreverence, and our tendency to poke fun at ourselves and not take it all too seriously. Maybe it’s a respect thing these cats are lookin’ for, I don’t know.

Mitch, although I never met him, seems like a really nice guy (he gave us his night simply because Evan Francis said we were cool). I like his playing a lot too.

All said, I really like the Bay Area and we intend to keep playing there as often as possible. Thanks for your insight Nathan.