I may just have sinned!

[Christiern]

My work on the St. Croix slave trade requires that I deliver files in MS Works format, compatible with PCs. I tried everything to avoid reaching this point, but this evening I had to capitulate and order Windows for my Mac.

I hope Jobs will forgive me.

Feel free to console...

Edited March 24, 2009 by Christiern

[AllenLowe]

so you've finally gone to the dark side -

[Chuck Nessa]

I bought the office suite from Jobs when I ordered my iMac.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[jazzbo]

It's okay Chris. You did not go gently into that dark night of Windows.

[BERIGAN]

Chris, I bet you'd really enjoy checking out this site!

[Aggie87]

Chris - I believe Open Office, which is freeware, allows you to save files in Word format, and I think there is Open Office for the Mac.

I don't know if Works can read Word documents though (?), or if there's a way to convert them. I'm sure one of the more computer literate people on the board could answer this.

Might be worth checking out, and might save you the trouble of having an additional operating system that you don't want/like.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Aggie87

[Big Al]

Is that all? Here and I thought you'd spent money on both a Wynton Marsalis cd AND a Stanley Crouch book.

[Big Al]

My work on the St. Croix slave trade requires that I deliver files in MS Works format, compatible with PCs. I tried everything to avoid reaching this point, but this evening I had to capitulate and order Windows for my Mac.

I hope Jobs will forgive me.

Cometothinkofit, Steve did mention how disappointed he was when I saw him in church yesterday.....

[rockefeller center]

The purchase of that license was overkill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Works#Thir...y_compatibility

PS: This is a nice example about the advantages of open versus proprietary formats in regards to interoperability.

Edited March 24, 2009 by rockefeller center

[AllenLowe]

actually, I've heard that if you offer him enough money, Crouch will come to your house and set up the whole system for you - and then punch you in the face -

[BruceH]

You were forced to do it, so it's not a sin.

[porcy62]

Did you mean you usually buy softwares?

[king ubu]

well, porcy is from a country where the public role models (such as Mr. Berlusconi) are thieves and liars, so I guess porcy follows their example and only "owns" pirated software, he he

now about the whole apple thing... I confess I've been a Windows user always, and as long as it all works and I can do all my music processing stuff, I really don't feel like changing and having to learn all new about two dozens of programmes to do the same things I'm doing comfortably on my Windows computer... also I know, that's totally opposed to the cult factor you get with this i-stuff, but I don't feel sentimental about computers, I look at them as a means and hence don't want to pay for design and cult...

[rockefeller center]

Did you mean you usually buy softwares?

I for one haven't bought any of my software since 2005. -_-

[king ubu]

I can relate to that, Chris! I guess I'm just shying away from changing anything about my computer set-up... and honestly I'd much rather go for a new 500$ notebook that can do all I need, rather than change system, learning it all anew AND pay much more (I'm afraid I need a new notebook soon, but I actually can't afford it... or rather: I prefer buying music...)

Anyway, Linux would be a smart option, too, I gather (and a nice one image-wise).

[rockefeller center]

Final thought: Macs will run Windows. It won't work the other way around. Hmmmmmmm

Sorry, own goal.

"Mac" (hardware, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh ) != "Windows" (operating system)

But let's not nitpick here, please watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LCUCSBvcvI

If you haven't watched the video: assuming that with "Windows" you mean "non-Apple hardware" - you're wrong. It is possible to run Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware (please see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/20/macosx_on_a_pc/ for instance - it's not the way you usually want to install an OS on a machine though).

The thing is that Apple wants their OS to be run on their own hardware only. One mustn't even install it as a virtual machine: http://omploader.org/vMWZtcQ/vm.png (look at all these operating systems that may be installed; but sadly, Mac OS X won't even show up after selecting "Other")

It should be clear now why "it won't work the other way around". Hmmmmmmm

Re "emulation": Apple is not different to other companies in terms of borrowing (which isn't a bad thing, IMO) and I'm sure you also give credit to FreeBSD.

Darwin, the core of Apple's Mac OS X, borrows heavily from FreeBSD, including its virtual file system, network stack and components of its userspace. Apple continues to integrate new code from and contribute changes back to FreeBSD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebsd

You mentioned safety: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941

Let's talk about vendor lock-in another time.

Edited March 25, 2009 by rockefeller center

[rockefeller center]

OK, so it can be done, but your links show that it cannot be done easily. In fact, what you have posted demonstrates that it takes a helluva lot of steps to achieve an unsatisfactory result.

Come on! The reason why it cannot be done easily is because Apple doesn't want it do be done easily! Please acknowledge that.

The fact is, current Macs run both platforms smoothly and can even do so simultaneously.

That has nothing to do with some magic brilliance of your platform. Any system with decent amount of RAM, modern CPU, etc. can do this. OMG, I can run three operating systems simultaneously: http://omploader.org/vMWZuNw/Screenshot-1.png (Mac OS X isn't among them because of their restrictive license policy)

And let us not get into proprietary rights, licenses, etc. No software company is as paranoid as Microsoft. Can one install Windows without a serial number? I don't think so. Mac OS installation, on the other hand, does not require a serial number. I have used the Mac version of MS Word and it is a nightmare when it comes to "permissions."

I think that Apple is at least as paranoid as fricking Microsoft. For a taste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in#Apple_Inc.

Edited March 25, 2009 by rockefeller center

[Big Al]

Everything I learned about Windows I learned on a Mac when I was working at my first job out of college (1994). That said, I still prefer my Dell PC over the Mac I used to have. My main complaint when I had my Mac was that nothing new ever fit on the OS I had, and nothing seemed to be backwards compatible. I'm sure times have changed in the ten years since I sold that Mac, and I really can't see spending the money to get one of the new ones, but I have to admit being skeptical: these new Macs look nice and shiny, the way computers are supposed to look; but damn if I can't figure out what the hell's going on with it. I realize that a good chunk of that may be due to not having worked on a Mac in over ten years and therefore missing out on the changes that Apple has trailblazed. I'll give them that: they've always been ahead of the time technologically. It's just a damn shame that Jobs has this elitist cult mentality that says only certain cool people should own Macs; the rest of y'all can go to hell (or Microsoft). Can you imagine how much more successful Apple could be if it were run by someone who didn't hold the human race in such high contempt? (I'll always remember that scene from "Pirates of the Silicon Valley," where Noah Wyle's Steve Jobs says to Anthony Michael Hall's Bill Gates, "We're better than you," to which Hall's Gates says, "Don't you get it? It doesn't matter!") Besides, as long as Apple's around, Gates has a nice little R&D facility that costs him next to nothing.

My personal belief: if you're an artist and you need top-of-the-line graphics, multimedia, etc. Mac is the best way to go. If you're a corporate type, Windows is the best way to go. Just my two cents. Change made, as always.

[Aggie87]

My personal belief: if you're an artist and you need top-of-the-line graphics, multimedia, etc. Mac is the best way to go. If you're a corporate type, Windows is the best way to go.

I'd agree with this.

We're locked into Windows where I work (and with our partner firms, etc), and since I occasionally bring work home with me, it makes the most sense to have a system that easily can handle the work.

Plus, I want my kids to be comfortable with Windows, so they're not a step behind everyone else when it comes to job hunting later in life. Unless they are in the small minority who are lucky enough not to have to work for someone else.

[rockefeller center]

Chris, in post #20 you blamed non-Apple hardware for not being able to deal with Mac (OS X) when in fact it's just the other way around: AGAIN -> Apple tries to prevent its OS to be installed on non-Apple hardware (-> youtube video post #22). This ain't a casting show for Republican spindoctors goddamnit!

Good for you that you found a platform that does the stuff you expect from it. And no, there's no Macenvy.

Besides, there are many more operating systems out there than just Apple's and Microsoft's.

[rockefeller center]

Plus, I want my kids to be comfortable with Windows, so they're not a step behind everyone else when it comes to job hunting later in life. Unless they are in the small minority who are lucky enough not to have to work for someone else.

Should I ever have kids I'd rather want them to be comfortable with persistent concepts than with some software that comes with a new graphical user interface every two, three years. From the user's point of view, once you understand the basics it doesn't matter if you're clicking buttons on a Mac, Windows or Solaris GUI.

[rockefeller center]

rc: "Should I ever have kids I'd rather want them to be comfortable with persistent concepts than with some software that comes with a new graphical user interface every two, three years. From the user's point of view, once you understand the basics it doesn't matter if you're clicking buttons on a Mac, Windows or Solaris GUI."

But it does matter. The end result may be the same, but there is a difference in how readily one achieves it.

I'm not talking about GUI usage. With "persistent concepts" I mean basic knowledge in database design, text editing, data structures/programming, image editing and stuff like that. Knowledge that is independent from an operating system or even computers.

You seem to be grasping at straws to justify the MS platform. No need to do that, when Windows works as advertised, it does a good job.

It's getting weird. Where do I justify or advertise the MS platform? It's not that I feel like I'd have to justify but I don't even use it as my main operating system (occasionally have to use XP in a virtual machine) and am strongly opposed to this company. From my POV just like Apple, MS sucks big time.

Edited March 25, 2009 by rockefeller center

[porcy62]

well, porcy is from a country where the public role models (such as Mr. Berlusconi) are thieves and liars, so I guess porcy follows their example and only "owns" pirated software, he he

Exactly, I'd thinking about opening a bank account at the Cayman, or maybe in Switzerland...if I'd have enough money to worth dodging taxes.

[Chuck Nessa]

Not sure why you couldn't get "Office for Mac" and avoid the OS.

[Aggie87]

Not sure why you couldn't get "Office for Mac" and avoid the OS.

Might not be compatible with Works. That is the potential problem with the Open Office solution that I suggested above, too.

You would think MS would allow Works and Office to be compatible.