Funny Rat

[king ubu]

Anyone heard this already? I heard this trio on the air, a live concert. This disc is a studio recording - should be very interesting, if it's as good as the live concert I heard parts of!

ubu

[Д.Д.]

Mohammed Ali is Rashied's brother, and I think he was equally impresive (he later played with Frank Wright's band (Wright, Ali, Bobby Few, Alan Silva) - some really scary fire music stuff, btw). What happened to him later?

I did a quick search and couldn't find any recordings by him after 1969. It is a shame that he didn't record more.

The Frank Wright quartet (unpretenciously called Center of the Wolrd) I was talking about recorded in 1972: AMG link. A really nice band. brownie or P.L.M. could have probably seen them live since they were pretty active in Europe in early '70s.

[John B]

The Frank Wright quartet (unpretenciously called Center of the Wolrd) I was talking about recorded in 1972: AMG link. A really nice band. brownie or P.L.M. could have probably seen them live since they were pretty active in Europe in early '70s.

That was silly of me. I didn't bother to look up the disc you mentioned. I have never heard that one and was assuming it was recorded around the same time as the others I found.

I am now listening to Peter Brotzmann / Albert Mangelsdorff / Fred Van Hove and Han Bennink - Live in Berlin 1971. Very interesting, this is not an era of Brotzmann that I am very familiar with. Van Hove is playing fairly lyrically here (halfway through the 20 minute first track) while Bennink is being Bennink, howling and furiously beating everything in sight in a very controlled chaos. Brotzmann and Mangelsdorff are sitting out, but have been breathing fire everytime they play.

So far I would not consider this album essential, but I am very much enjoying listening to it.

[Д.Д.]

I am now listening to Peter Brotzmann / Albert Mangelsdorff / Fred Van Hove and Han Bennink - Live in Berlin 1971. Very interesting, this is not an era of Brotzmann that I am very familiar with. Van Hove is playing fairly lyrically here (halfway through the 20 minute first track) while Bennink is being Bennink, howling and furiously beating everything in sight in a very controlled chaos. Brotzmann and Mangelsdorff are sitting out, but have been breathing fire everytime they play.

So far I would not consider this album essential, but I am very much enjoying listening to it.

What label is it on?

[John B]

I am now listening to Peter Brotzmann / Albert Mangelsdorff / Fred Van Hove and Han Bennink - Live in Berlin 1971.  Very interesting, this is not an era of Brotzmann that I am very familiar with.  Van Hove is playing fairly lyrically here (halfway through the 20 minute first track) while Bennink is being Bennink, howling and furiously beating everything in sight in a very controlled chaos.  Brotzmann and Mangelsdorff are sitting out, but have been breathing fire everytime they play.

So far I would not consider this album essential, but I am very much enjoying listening to it.

What label is it on?

FMP.

[David Ayers]

The only discussion of For Adolphe Sax in this thread has been tentative. I think this is a great disk and genuinely historical (not just old). The bonus track is a major bonus (and who in any case had the original LP!!??). Ok there are many such power trio records around, but I think this is a great one with finely controlled playing all round. UMS is a great series and have done a major service bringing back several totally rare Brotzmann disks.

[couw]

I usually don't really like experimental music when guitars are involved, but I must admit that this Helmut "Joe" Sachse from 1981 that I picked up recently is pretty kewl. He's a bit of a weirdo and not only plays two guitars at once occasionally, but also manages to play the flute while strumming on the guitar.

Anyhow, here is a little sample of his work (4.5Mb mp3, right click and save to listen), titled Weber/Parkweg (Weber lasts 7m30, the remaining 2 minutes are "Parkweg"). Sachse is on guitar and flute, Manfred Hering is on alto.

[Nate Dorward]

When Braxton went to London in the 1970s & played a concert with Derek Bailey apparently there was quite the disagreement about how to proceed during the rehearsal session: he brought a stack of sheet music with him, which Bailey wouldn't have any of. If I remember rightly, the compromise they worked out was to divide the concert into agreed-upon "territories".

Evan Parker did play with Braxton again on that Victoriaville disc, where he's working within Braxton's compositional structures. I haven't listened to that CD for a while--great band but I remember the disc as OK, but not great. The Braxton/Bailey on Victo, though, is a rather interesting disc.

[Д.Д.]

I usually don't really like experimental music when guitars are involved, but I must admit that this Helmut "Joe" Sachse from 1981 that I picked up recently is pretty kewl. He's a bit of a weirdo and not only plays two guitars at once occasionally, but also manages to play the flute while strumming on the guitar. 

Anyhow, here is a little sample of his work (4.5Mb mp3, right click and save to listen), titled Weber/Parkweg (Weber lasts 7m30, the remaining 2 minutes are "Parkweg"). Sachse is on guitar and flute, Manfred Hering is on alto.

Good stuff. I am pretty sure I have this saxophone guy somewhere.

Did an AMG search on Manfred Herring and found the following album. Now how can you possibly ignore an album titled like this?

Edited June 25, 2004 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Details on new Brötzmann FMP release: http://www.fmp-online.de/fmpcds/14_LOVE_PO...n_e_fmp_125.htm

[couw]

I usually don't really like experimental music when guitars are involved, but I must admit that this Helmut "Joe" Sachse from 1981 that I picked up recently is pretty kewl. He's a bit of a weirdo and not only plays two guitars at once occasionally, but also manages to play the flute while strumming on the guitar. 

Anyhow, here is a little sample of his work (4.5Mb mp3, right click and save to listen), titled Weber/Parkweg (Weber lasts 7m30, the remaining 2 minutes are "Parkweg"). Sachse is on guitar and flute, Manfred Hering is on alto.

Good stuff. I am pretty sure I have this saxophone guy somewhere.

Did an AMG search on Manfred Herring and found the following album. Now how can you possibly ignore an album titled like this?

hey, the Ulrich Gumpert Workshop Band!

[Д.Д.]

I usually don't really like experimental music when guitars are involved, but I must admit that this Helmut "Joe" Sachse from 1981 that I picked up recently is pretty kewl. He's a bit of a weirdo and not only plays two guitars at once occasionally, but also manages to play the flute while strumming on the guitar. 

Anyhow, here is a little sample of his work (4.5Mb mp3, right click and save to listen), titled Weber/Parkweg (Weber lasts 7m30, the remaining 2 minutes are "Parkweg"). Sachse is on guitar and flute, Manfred Hering is on alto.

Good stuff. I am pretty sure I have this saxophone guy somewhere.

Did an AMG search on Manfred Herring and found the following album. Now how can you possibly ignore an album titled like this?

hey, the Ulrich Gumpert Workshop Band!

Is it good? And is it available on CD by chance?

[couw]

hey, the Ulrich Gumpert Workshop Band!

Is it good? And is it available on CD by chance?

the one pictured above (not the smell rat, dunno about that one), yes it's available on CD on couw analog to digital productions. A copy resides in Suisse already. It's pretty good, though the awkward balance between the structured and the freeer parts may need some getting used to. Sometimes the players seem too eager to get to the free blowing solo part and sound a bit sloppy on the ensembles. Still a worthwhile album I'd say.

Edited June 25, 2004 by couw

[Д.Д.]

Friends, I was listening to Scott Fields Ensemble "48 Motives" (Cadence, 1996). Powerful stuff. I don't think I've heard a lot of music like this. Here is the combo:

Geoff Brady ... percussion

Marilyn Crispell ... piano

Vincent Davis ... percussion

Stephen Dembski ... conductor

Scott Fields ... nylon-string guitar

Joseph Jarman ... alto saxophone

John Padden ... contrabass

Hans Sturm ... contrabass

Matt Turner ... violoncello

I understand there is some mighty scientific compositional/imporvisational concept behind all that (which is illistrated by some diabolic scheme on the cover which makes Braxton little symbols look like they are childrens' drawings... which they probably are), but if it makes you think (with a lottle help of this manic AMG review) that this is some sort of ugly dry academic BOulez/WEbern type of stuff (as I thought), then you would be surprised - this is some very listenable even a bit lyrical stuff with some constant forward motion and very interesting shift of themes/moods (that's what conductors are for!). No fire-breathing blowing as such, but thoughtful careful interplay. Go for it.

Scott Fields has a very nice website, btw: http://www.scottfields.com/

[Д.Д.]

Pure sound? What it be?

Just sound, you know. Just any sound in itself in the right time, even without any specific context can be beautiful.

At least that's the way I am interested in seeing it now.

Well, David, I think you're ready to go to the next stage of your musical evolution, who will consit in listening exclusivily to E.A.I.

Let us know when you will definitely pass the line, baby!

P.L.M., my firend, I thing I will hang in the "jazz universe" for just a bit more... at least until I start really appreciating Noah Rosen's music ( ) - only after that I will feel I am ready for my next evolutionery step.

[Gary]

I have this is on my 'to listen to' pile at the moment - it looks interesting

I am very curious abut this one.

Chadbourne is a fantastic musician (and a very entertainig writer, and good music critic), but he has occasional lapses of taste meking some of his work pretty unlistenable.

I've just listened to disc 1 for the first time,

Initial impression - strange & fucking intense.

[Gary]

Im enjoying this at the moment

[Д.Д.]

Prima Materia - Meditations KFW 180 (1995)

This is Rashied Ali's quintet take on Coltrane's "Meditations". Two very good saxophonists (forgot the names), who thankfully don't sound like Coltrane. Ali's playing is beautiful here.

Listened to it again. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. Inspired and inspiring. Particular for altoist Alan Chase who brings a dose of lyricism to this quite intense performance. Louise Belongesis totally burns on tenor.

Prima Materia also recorded a version of Ayler's Bells (also on Knitting Factory) - I have to get it.

[alankin]

Sam Rivers/Adam Rudolph/Harris Eisenstadt - Vista (Meta 009)

Sam Rivers on sax and flute with two percussionists. Recorded the day before Rivers's 80th birthday! Sounds very good on my first listen...

Edited June 26, 2004 by alankin

[alankin]

"Portrait of Sheila" is one of my favorite vocal jazz albums EVER!

And don´t you dare criticize Sheila!

I don't, but it seems some think her intonation sucks. NOT ME THOUGH! Don't you mistake me for "some"! Or you will be immediately de-capitated by my royal troops!

ubu

I am deifinitely this very some. Sheila Jordan ruins this Rudd disc for me (and I am not a vocal-hater in general, as other some here). I will listen to it again (I bumped upon this CD recently, so why not listen to it - who knows when I find it next time?).

Wow, give it another listen! I think that Sheila Jordan's rendition her of "What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life" is one of the most haunting jazz vocal performances ever!

Edited June 26, 2004 by alankin

[brownie]

Sheila Jordan's rendition of 'You Are My Sunshine' on the George Russell 'The Outer View' Riverside album is also one of the great moments in jazz vocal history!

[alankin]

Pure sound? What it be?

...

Funny thing, but I find myself spending more and more time listening to "natural environment" sounds. At this very moment they include very nice bird singing (several different birds), children playing in the yard, occasional passing car or train far at the background, very slight (but constant) buzz of a fan somewhere and flying airplanes once in a while. Not something particularly original for sure, but somehow last couple of weeks I tend to find it all fascinating enough to listen to attentively for quite long periods of time. Moroever, yestrerday it reached a certain extreme: I was listening to all these natural environment sounds and then decided to put Mingus' "Black Saint.."... started listening and in 10 minutes realized the music is somehow redundant (Mingus!!! "Black Saint..."!!!), turned it off and went back to listening (with great interest) to natural environment sounds.

If it progresses like this, I might have all my CD collection for sales soon, he-he...

Found sounds? Here someone to check out! ---->

Tony Schwartz has been documenting life in sound and pictures since 1945, when he bought his first Webcor wire recorder and began to record the people and sounds around him. From this hobby developed one of the world's largest and most diverse collections of voices, street sounds and music, a collection that resulted in nineteen record albums for Folkways and Columbia.

Tony Schwartz: 30,000 Recordings Later - a feature on NPRs "Lost and Found Sound"

"New York 19" (Folkways 5558) - An audio study of New York 19, a postal zone in Midtown Manhattan where Tony lived. The material on this record was selected from thousands of tapes, dating back to 1952. It was during this time that Tony recorded the exotic sounds of blind street musician Moondog.

[alankin]

This thread is at the '2000 REPLIES' point! 

If you click on the '2000', you get:

Who posted in: Funny Rat

Poster :: Posts

1 - ?.?. 519

2- king ubu 349

[3-17]

18 - alankin 10

I never thought I'd be in the top twenty! (Of course there's a rapid fall off from the first few posters...)

Edited June 26, 2004 by alankin

[P.L.M]

I thought Braxton and Parker were not too comforatble with each other on this occasion (or on the companion disk which also features Paul Rutherford). Their approaches are different (Braxton not really a free improv. type). Also I find the BBC recorded sound a bit muted, lacking texture and immediacy.

BRAXTON, "not really a free impro type?"

What do you think he has done all of his life as a musician?

That's the best joke I've heard in a long time.

Of course, another big recommendation for this two records (DUO (LONDON) 1993 and also the sequel TRIO (LONDON) 1993 with Rutherford aboard), two of the best both men have ever recorded.

And the sound quality is fair.

Braxton does structures, not free improv. He has repeatedly said this in interviews. See e.g. discussion in Radano, 207-12. I think he puts it usefully in the liner notes for the Wesleyan solo disk, where he discusses structure in solo recitals and gives a breakdown of his different improvisational 'languages'. It is pretty clear that Braxton is big on structure - those little squiggles after the track numbers are composition titles after all...

At the time of the recordings with Parker and Rutherford this would be pretty much an unusual escapade from him.

This is a list of record (LP and CD) that I own (or own once) and where ANTHONY BRAXTON "freely improvise" (living the solo records out of the bag as every improviser who do a solo record "structure" his improvisations, and that include EVAN PARKER, PETER BRÖTZMANN, JOE MC PHEE and all.)

- ALAN SILVA & THE CELESTRIAL COMMUNICATION ORCHESTRA: LUNAR (1969)

- CREATIVE CONSTRUCTION COMPANY (LEO SMITH, LEROY JENKINS, M.R. ABRAMS, RICHARD DAVIS, STEVE McCALL): VOLUME I & II (1970/71)

- ANTHONY BRAXTON & DEREK BAILEY: FIRST DUO CONCERT (LONDON 1974)

- ANTHONY BRAXTON with DEREK BAILEY: LIVE AT WIGMORE (1974)

(it's on this one, where some pieces have elements - we can't really speak about "structures" here - who have been pre-determined)

- RICHARD TEITELBAUM & ANTHONY BRAXTON: TIME ZONES (1976)

- COMPANY: COMPANY 2 (1976)

- GLOBE UNITY ORCHESTRA: JAHRMARKT/ LOCAL FAIR (1977)

- COMPANY: COMPANY 6&7 (1978)

- MAX ROACH featuring ANTHONY BRAXTON: ONE IN TWO, TWO IN ONE (1979)

- MAX ROACH featuring ANTHONY BRAXTON: BIRTH AND REBIRTH (1979)

- ANTHONY BRAXTON & DEREK BAILEY: MOMENT PRECIEUX (1986)

- ANTHONY BRAXTON & GEORG GRAEWE: DUO (AMSTERDAM) 1991

- ANTHONY BRAXTON & DAVID ROSENBOOM: TWO LINES (1995)

- ANTHONY BRAXTON & RICHARD TEITELBAUM: LIVE AT MERKIN HALL (1996)

- BORAH BERGMAN/ PETER BRÖTZMANN/ ANTHONY BRAXTON: EIGHT BY THREE (1998)

And there is many records under his name or in collaboration who have among "structural" compositions by him or others some free impro. pieces include (by exemple, ANTHONY BRAXTON/ TAYLOR HO BYNUM: DUETS (WESLEYAN) 2002 has one of the kind.)

That BRAXTON considere himself as a "structure" player, that he feels more at home in such situation, as somebody who considere himself to be more a composer than anything else, is one thing, that he had practice free impro all of his life is another thing that we can call a fact.

A fact that I've witness few times "live" during the seventies (duo with FRED VAN HOVE, member of COMPANY, etc.)

That most of the records listed above, all things considering, are not his best work and that some are even miss (MOMENT PRECIEUX with DEREK BAILEY) or terrible (EIGHT BY THREE with BERGMAN & BROTZMANN his certainly the worst of the list ) doesn't change anything either:

BRAXTON has done is share of free impro during all of his career and this cross all his discography since the beginning.

So improvising with PARKER and with PARKER & RUTHERFORD is very far "to be pretty much an unusual escape for him."

Edited June 26, 2004 by P.L.M

[alankin]

This is a disc that might have slipped beneath many people's radars:

Barry Altschul - You Can't Name Your Own Tune

Despite the sly dig at Braxton in the album title, this one is very inspired by him and features some great playing.  Altschul on drums and percussion, Sam Rivers on tenor, soprano, and flute, Dave Holland on bass, George Lewis on trombone and Muhal Richard Abrams on piano.  This was recorded in 1977 and was last issued on 32jazz, so it should be out of print at this point.  Highly recommended, if you can track down a copy.

This one reminds me of another great drummer-led session:

Andrew Cyrille Quintet - My Friend Louis (DIW), with Hannibal, Oliver Lake, Reggie Workman and Steve Colson.

I found my copy, with a water damaged, unopenable booklet, in 1996 in a thrift shop in Johnson, Vermont for 25 cents!

Edited June 26, 2004 by alankin