Funny Rat

[John B]

There is an interesting interview with Gunter Muller where he touches on the conception of La Voyelle Liquide, over at Joe Christmas' site Bagatellan:

http://bagatellen.com/mueller.html

[John B]

I am not sure there should be any intention other than creating music (or inhumane soundscapes, if you wish). Does music necesserily has to convey human emotions? - I don't think so.

For me it does.

See, I definitely hear a lot of human emotion in LVL. It is expressed in a very different way than most people are used to, but it is there, nonetheless.

It sounds like this music might just not be for you, which is cool. Kudos to you for at least giving it a chance, which is more than most would do.

I would still highly recommend everyone on this discussion give Too Beautiful to Burn a chance, as it is, in my opinion, the one disc on Erst people coming from a jazz background would have the easiest time relating to.

[Д.Д.]

I am not sure there should be any intention other than creating music (or inhumane soundscapes, if you wish). Does music necesserily has to convey human emotions? - I don't think so.

For me it does.

Well, this is a bit like what my friends say when they (accidentally) get exposed to music I listen to: "what the fuck is that? what's the intention of this music? - you can't dance to it and there are no words to sing along". The only thing I can respond to this (and I think this is the most valid explanation possible) - "I like it".

[Guest Chaney]

Thank you Jon and everyone for your thoughts. ALL are appreciated.

(I'm at work now so I can't respond at length.)

Jon: I'm aware of the feuding over at the JC and understand completely where your coming from in that matter.

DD: My question to Jon was serious. I will though look around for further informattion on the musician's intent.

Hans: Me too too!

John: Thanks for the link. I'll make a copy of that a read it on my bus ride home from work. Your thoughts as regards eai are valued.

[jon abbey]

honestly to me, La Voyelle Liquide is as filled with warmth, humanity and emotion as any other record discussed on this thread. you connect to it, or you don't, just like any other music. if you don't connect to it, and you're curious as to the thinking behind it, there's plenty of info on the web, and you can explore as much or as little as you'd like. and maybe it's not for you, this music isn't to everyone's taste, which I'm not saying to be obnoxious, it's just true.

I'm also really not trying to piss people off, sorry if I do/did. I'm not always especially tactful, I say what I think straightforwardly, sometimes it doesn't always come across so well. so, sorry if I offended.

[Д.Д.]

I would still highly recommend everyone on this discussion give Too Beautiful to Burn a chance, as it is, in my opinion, the one disc on Erst people coming from a jazz background would have the easiest time relating to.

I'll go for it.

[Gary]

since buying the recommendations from you guys I keep playing disc 1 of this a couple of times a week

(cioncidence ???)

I've never really got past disc 1 - I've enjoyed taking my time enjoying it - the other discs can wait (not for too long though).

Track 1 is heaven.

[gnhrtg]

By the way (Jon already knows this but in case others are assuming elsewise), I already have 13 eai records and will place another order for 5 in a week. All of those 5 will be on erstwhile and 9 of the 13 are erstwhile releases. As with all music I listen to, I like some and others I like less.

My reaction was to how Jon chose to express himself, only. Again, he, in turn, might not like the way I express myself but for me this has nothing to do with relative merits, as it were, of different styles of music. Nothing I said even relates to music. Some people have strong opinions, which I'm all for, but then putting them in a bit too strong a language might create unintended and unnecessary tension among lovers of different music.

"you connect to it, or you don't, just like any other music. if you don't connect to it, and you're curious as to the thinking behind it, there's plenty of info on the web, and you can explore as much or as little as you'd like. and maybe it's not for you, this music isn't to everyone's taste, which I'm not saying to be obnoxious, it's just true." - FWIW, this, I think is very well put (unlike your initial reaction - and I know you might not care for what I think but here it is) and I wouldn't think anyone would be offended by this (again, unlike the first comments).

[J.A.W.]

My reaction was to how Jon chose to express himself, only. Again, he, in turn, might not like the way I express myself but for me this has nothing to do with relative merits, as it were, of different styles of music. Nothing I said even relates to music.

That's how I understood your post.

[Guest Chaney]

Look. Why don't we all just sit down, spin some tunes and have a beer?

[J.A.W.]

Look. Why don't we all just sit down, spin some tunes and have a beer?

What kind of tunes??

[Д.Д.]

Look. Why don't we all just sit down, spin some tunes and have a beer?

Good idea.

I am getting ready to go to a disco, btw.

[J.A.W.]

Talking about human emotion:

Fantastic album!

[Д.Д.]

since buying the recommendations from you guys I keep playing disc 1 of this a couple of times a week

(cioncidence ???)

I've never really got past disc 1 - I've enjoyed taking my time enjoying it - the other discs can wait (not for too long though).

Track 1 is heaven.

I still have to listen to this one...

[John B]

Look.  Why don't we all just sit down, spin some tunes and have a beer? 

What kind of tunes??

It would only be right to start with Brotzmann / Hano.

[Guest Chaney]

It would only be right to start with Brotzmann / Hano.

David: If you're seriously going to a disco, keep in mind... I LIKE DISCO MUSIC! And after that confession -- a confession I've made before -- you can see why I'd hesitate in condemning anyone when it comes to their musical likes and dislikes. Not that it stops me completely.

By the way: you should be grounded until you've listened to the Lyons Box. In a way, I envy anyone who owns this set but has yet to listen to it. WONDERS AWAIT! (Like you didn't already know that.)

Hans: What label is that Die Like A Dog date on and where'd you get it? (I've never run across that one.)

[J.A.W.]

Hans: What label is that Die Like A Dog date on and where'd you get it? (I've never run across that one.)

The CD number is FMP CD 64 and I got it from Cadence (finally managed to have them charge me a "normal" overseas shipping fee...)

[Guest Chaney]

Ahh... FMP. I own far too few FMP releases. (Mostly just Cecil Taylor.)

Anyone feel that they own enough FMP titles to have an opinion as to the ratio of hits to misses?

[couw]

I am not sure there should be any intention other than creating music (or inhumane soundscapes, if you wish). Does music necesserily has to convey human emotions? - I don't think so.

For me it does.

emotion may be a bit much at times, but there has to be something worthwile. Surely sound in and of itself is worthwhile, but random noise is not for long stretches. So, i think there at least should be a story and whether that story is largely contained within the music itself or rather more expressed through a context provided to the music leads to some very different products. The latter runs a much larger risk of becoming dated or simply being misunderstood.

Improvisation for the sake of improvisation can be very interesting academically but often adds darn little to my enjoyment. I prefer artists who have a more emotional story to tell.

(sorry to rake up this stuff again, but I got around to this only now, please feel free to read and discard)

Edited May 28, 2004 by couw

[Gary]

Look.  Why don't we all just sit down, spin some tunes and have a beer?  

What kind of tunes??

It would only be right to start with Brotzmann / Hano.

I've just done a quick froogle search &

forcedexposure.com

are the only people that seem to have it - if I were to scrape a few pennies together what do you think my chances are of getting it from them?

(after all these pages I'm more than intrigued.)

[jon abbey]

we have it too, a couple of dollars cheaper:

http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/inventory/list.asp

you should be able to get it in the UK from sound 323 in London, even if it's not listed, I'd e-mail and ask:

http://www.web-malls.net/sound323/

[Gary]

Many thanks Jon ,

I'll give sound323 a shout & if I dont get any luck I'll be in touch.

[Д.Д.]

While I still don't have Funny Rat, I got Organized Chaos (Konnex), a trio recording of Brötzmann, Nicky Scopelitis on guitar and Shoji Hano on drums.

Interesting record, if not entirely successful. Brötzmann plays more fast and virtuosic here than anywhere else I've heard him - I assume this is because Skopelitis keeps challenging him, playing ultra-fast distorted runs, often imitating saxophone sound - poor Brötzmann has no choice but respond in a similar manner. However, there is a a problem here, and it is Hano - he seems completely lost in this battle: plays clumsy heavy out-of-context drunken-one-handed-Sunny-Murray thing (and again, this contrasts extremely fluid plying by both Brötzmann and Scoplitis), and becomes pretty unbearable soon after beginning.

Hmm.. Funny Rat, you say?

[Guest Chaney]

Funny Rat? Of the Brotz I've heard, it would not be a first choice. Problem? Hano. Sounds like the guys are having fun, but too often you get the idea that Brotzmann is having to play to the level of Hano - that not being a good thing. The best way I could describe it is that he seems completely lost in this battle: plays clumsy heavy out-of-context drunken-one-handed-Sunny-Murray thing. (Hmmm... that sounds familiar. DAMMIT! Wish I had said that first!)

Much better to first get any one of the many other Brotzmann CDs recently mentioned in this thread.

[Nate Dorward]

Anyone feel that they own enough FMP titles to have an opinion as to the ratio of hits to misses?

I don't own a ton of FMPs but have or have heard maybe two dozen. There's a huge amount of good stuff on the label & now on the ancillary A|L|L, though I haven't had much luck lately with the review copies--I keep ending up with all-right-but-nothing-to-write-home-about discs like Fractured Dimensions or Tone. So my impression has been that they could stand to release fewer so-so live concerts from the late 1990s......but maybe I'm just missing the better ones. -- On the other hand I just bought the early-1990s disc Elf Bagatellen & it's still amazing stuff.