clifford_thornton Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Nakatani and Don Miller would be pretty good in and of themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandrill Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Is "Funny Rat, Peter Brotzmann & Shoji Hano" Organissimo's way to say "Free jazz discussion thread"? 462 pages seems a bit excessive for discussion of this particular album, good as it probably is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Welcome to the club... (To chime in...) Borbetomagus is well worth the price of admission--it's virtually a one-note affair, but a good one-note. Hardcore, guitar-laden, ultra-altissimo noise skronk--like a less "spiritual" Last Exit (I find myself using that adjective with reservation, but there's surely something to the ceremony and violent ecstasy of that latter group). B. was a seminal group, and often formidable (for that sorta thing...). Believe it or not, tonight is the first night I spun For Adolphe Sax/Morning Glory. After hearing about this one for so long, I'm happy to hear that it isn't a historically inflated Aylerian bashfest. The similarities are certainly there, but there's absolutely nothing tentative about the ensemble (Brotzmann in particular). What it lacks in polish and mastery it compensates for in force, militant fervor. I like these "there's a riot going on" free music albums. (A completely different note: I'd be thrilled to hear Brotzmann with the Peacock/Murray rhythm team--especially, in a "what if?" sorta scenario, at this vintage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Yeah, I think Peacock is completely uninterested in fire music nowadays. A pity (ditto Dave Holland's mainstreaming). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 This might sound like a cop-out re: Peacock, but if you played in the early Ayler groups, what else is there? I too remain unconvinced by much Holland's done in recent years, "nice" as it might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I don't think that I've heard Peacock in enough unique "out" contexts (what--Ayler, the Tony Williams BN dates, some ECM stuff, with a few others...) to really get a hold on what I could do in other environments. I agree that the Ayler groups were somewhere at the limit of American free jazz, though, and the only one who came out of those early ensembles with the beginnings of an entirely new syntax (Ayler excluded, of course) was Don Cherry. After Ayler, it's almost as if the equipoise to musical conservatism is only gradients of freedom... Sunny Murray, for example, has probably done his most interesting post-Ayler (and, for that matter, post-Taylor) work in a largely Aylerian/Taylorian idiom. Those more "inside", post-bop/modal albums are kind of boring to me, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I don't think that I've heard Peacock in enough unique "out" contexts (what--Ayler, the Tony Williams BN dates, some ECM stuff, with a few others...) to really get a hold on what I could do in other environments. I'd like to year what you could do in another environment, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Peacock was also on the Lasha-Simmons Contemporary date The Cry, though that's more freebop than "free." I'd also bring up Bley as another regular Peacock associate during the mid-60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I don't think that I've heard Peacock in enough unique "out" contexts (what--Ayler, the Tony Williams BN dates, some ECM stuff, with a few others...) to really get a hold on what I could do in other environments. I'd like to year what you could do in another environment, too! Ha! You and Freud gots me... I like his stuff with Bley, and it seems to be the freest he gets nowadays. It's strange, though, how abruptly he seemed to have "cut off" the energy side of things after Ayler. Maybe he got turned off to it somewhere down the line... I recall a Downbeat interview with Carla Bley--a master organizer of progressive improv, right?--going nuts about how awful Peters Brotzmann and Kowald were (having toured with them--modern improvisers in a completely different, decidedly freer bag). So many capable players turned around on the free scene after the music dropped into the post-Aylerian deep-end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 So many capable players turned around on the free scene after the music dropped into the post-Aylerian deep-end. Maybe you overestimated them from the/your beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Sad-sounding, but potentially true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 (edited) I recall a Downbeat interview with Carla Bley--a master organizer of progressive improv, right?--going nuts about how awful Peters Brotzmann and Kowald were (having toured with them--modern improvisers in a completely different, decidedly freer bag). So many capable players turned around on the free scene after the music dropped into the post-Aylerian deep-end. I actually like the Jazz Realities stuff with Bley, Brotzmann and Kowald. The recording I have is pretty shitty, but the music opens up into some interesting (and very intense) areas. It certainly doesn't sound like the Fontana LP! Edited March 4, 2007 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Bill Dixon's been discussed on this board before, but I haven't heard too much on Odyssey (most likely as it's so damn expensive). Any Ratty opinions on the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD45 Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Any thoughts on the new Derek Bailey/Tony Oxley set on Tzadik? Got it from emusic on Saturday. More electronics from Oxley than I thought. Interesting to hear what electronics were used in live improvisation in 1975... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Haven't seen this yet. Do tell. Oxley was into some very cool shit in the '70s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD45 Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Series of three duos from 1975 with Bailey on electric guitar and Oxley on drums and electronics. The fourth piece, a solo Oxley item, is from a recent concert Zorn put on in memory of DB. Fascinating music. It is hard to determine at some points where Bailey's guitar ends and Oxley's electronics begin. Part of the fun, I say. To elaborate on an earlier point, it seems that they frequency range of the electronics he used were more limited than that in widespread use today. Some EAI practitioners create sounds in the dog whistle range. That can often be startling, and likely the point in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I saw this one in the shops--wasn't aware that it dates to that (fine) vintage. I don't think I've yet picked up on the "wonder" of Oxley's solo percussion material, but it's certainly interesting to me (theoretically and historically). This should be a fun one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) I believe the concert recording was made at the Barbican last year - IIRC, Milford Graves and George Lewis were also on the gig. Edited March 9, 2007 by Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 I saw this one in the shops--wasn't aware that it dates to that (fine) vintage. I don't think I've yet picked up on the "wonder" of Oxley's solo percussion material, but it's certainly interesting to me (theoretically and historically). This should be a fun one. Most of the solo Oxley material I have is vintage, and I like it. It's definitely a subtler beast than somebody like Bennink or Graves, but there is quite a range of tonal colors and dynamics he gets from the amplified kit. I have a concert recording of the Oxley sextet with Howard Riley from '74 (I think) that has a particularly staggering solo percussion intro. The piece is called "Nephritic Tool." Guy, Parker, Rutherfuord and Wheeler are also on the gig. If Ichnos were reissued, the world would be a better place. I was spinning it the other day and its masterpiece status was reaffirmed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Evan and Kenny Wheeler are *ridiculous* on Ichnos ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Evan and Kenny Wheeler are *ridiculous* on Ichnos ! I'm not always the biggest KW fan, but indeed he shines on this date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Is the new Oxley the same sessions as vol 1 of Soho Suites? I take it from roughly that timeframe/musical orientation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Marion Brown's Le Temps Fou is in digital circulation! The wonders of the blogosphere never cease to amaze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Soon to be released on RASTASCAN: Anthony Braxton: Nine Compositions (DVD) 2003 This release includes 6.5 hours of music and features Taylor Ho Bynum, Greg Kelley, John Shiurba, Scott Rosenberg, Dan Plonsey, Gino Robair, Jay Rosen, Kyle Bruckmann, Liz Allbee, Justin Yang, ma++ Ingalls, and Sara Schoenbeck. The primary territories and ensembles are: Composition No. 328 (12tet) Composition No. 72H (Trio) Composition No. 74E (Trio) Composition No. 23E (Trio) Composition No. 190 (13tet) Composition No. 75 (Trio) Composition No. 292 (12tet) Composition No. 322 (Quartet) Composition No. 327 (12tet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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