Funny Rat

[Guest the mommy]

how is this marion brown live in japan disc i found. it is on DIW i think and from 1979. i fear it isn't too funny ratt-ish and might in fact be pretty boring. anyone know for sure? it has warren smith on drums so i am interested. japanese dude on bass.... looks like they might play some standards and i think brown melllowed out pretty quickly in the late 70s.

[clifford_thornton]

I don't know it. It's a trio?

I suspect it would be mellow, warmly lyrical and sparse with (if piano is present) some "modal" grooves. Probably a nice record.

[B. Clugston]

I've seen it, but never heard it. Here's the details:

Marion Brown: Live In Japan DIW-356 CD

November 8, 1979

Shiminkaikan Hall, Hirosaki, Japan

November Cotton Flower [16:10] (Marion Brown)

Sunshine Road [13:10] (Marion Brown)

Angel Eyes-Hurry Sundown [10:20] (Matt Dennis ~ Clarence Williams)

La Placita [17:50] (Marion Brown)

Africa [13:00] (Marion Brown)

Marion Brown (as)

Dave Burrell (p)

Gon Mizuhashi (b)

Warren Smith (d)

[king ubu]

I played this one again a few days ago:

alternate back cover:

Marion Brown: La Placita - Live In Willisau

Timeless SJP 108 (NL)

Timeless Muse TI 314 (US)

Timeless/RVC RJL-8080 (J) [released 1984]

March 26, 1977

Willisau, Switzerland (live)

La Placita [9:20] (Marion Brown)

Fortunato [8:12] (Marion Brown)

Sonnymoon For Two [5:14] (Sonny Rollins)

Bosco [10:20] (Marion Brown)

I'm Sorry [7:00] (Brandon K. Ross)

Soft Winds [5:44] (Benny Goodman)

Marion Brown (as)

Brandon K. Ross (g)

Jack Gregg (b)

Steve McCraven (d)

Very nice album!

Funny, my front is red, just like the back of the above jpg, but on the Brown site, there's just the yellow and the pink front... [edit: maybe the yellow pic from above was red but got a bit too much sun?]

I like the "mellow, warmly lyrical, sparse" description a lot. Brown is a great musician, very underrated, I assume, although that's an annoying tag.

Edited October 25, 2006 by king ubu

[Guest the mommy]

ubuh, i would say your live album looks more interesting!

too bad that isn't the one available on CD. or is it?

i have some shaky sound-quality live material of brown fronting a group with ross and another guitar player from 1976 or 1977-ish.

[David Ayers]

Had it (La Placita) sold it. Rare, so I wish I'd auctioned it! Annoying guitar, generally thin and amateurish mix?

Edited October 25, 2006 by David Ayers

[clifford_thornton]

Not that rare; I like the version of "Fortunato" on that one... it's a very good record, though I haven't heard it in some time (guess we agree to disagree there!)... Brandon Ross is also hip on that New Life Trio LP on Mustevic.

[king ubu]

Mr. uhm, mommy..., I assume I have those same live recordings, too... as far as I see on that Brown site, the Timeless is vinyl only. I don't think it's rare - the store where I bought mine, half a year or so ago, had another copy of it and it was prized in the 10-12$ range, which is *cheap* here (nice prize CDs go for roughly 17-19$, glass of beer or a coffe for 2.5-4$).

[ep1str0phy]

Brandon Ross is still doing some interesting, vital work (working with MMelford right now, and the band is pretty kickin'), although there's quite a bit of poety-singer/songwriter in his bag.

A great, if somewhat atypical Marion Brown record that has been making the rounds is "Songs of Love and Regret" (a duo with Mal Waldron). Now, this is not a Funny Rat record, but it features some fine Marion blowing (very in the pocket the entire set--which is to say "inside", I guess--but, yes, "mellow, warmly lyrical, sparse").

Edited October 25, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Chuck Nessa]

Really boring date. Sorry.

[ep1str0phy]

(Respectfully disagreeing--Organissimo's avant threads could use a little love, now and again) Not Marion's most involved date--not by any stretch of the imagination--but it's as fine a post-bop duet album as I've heard. Knowing Waldron and Brown (not personally...), this date could have gone in a million other directions... as it is, I think it makes for beautiful, pleasant listening that doesn't lapse into the sort of pandering and faux-pas that a lot of "good natured", "modern" jazz does. In other words, it's a standard bag... but the spirit is still there, IMO.

Edited October 26, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Chuck Nessa]

Sorry for the confusion. I was still talking about La Placenta.

[Chuck Nessa]

BTW, showing the avant garde threads "a little love" should not include praising lousy music. I feel there has been a fair amount of that lately. I do admit that happens with other styles too, BUT.............

[ep1str0phy]

I think I'll leave it there--for hilarious posterity.

Tangent (and random thought)--what's up with the rights to all the JCOA albums? Communications got reissued on ECM, but that was a Mantler-centered date... any reason why we haven't seen the others?

Oh, and EDIT about the love thing--not talking about the music, per se (that's the realm of opinion), but rather comportment (that's the realm of diplomacy). I'm with Clifford on the notion that we don't need another Bagatellen thread on here (tho it's a little late...).

Edited October 26, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[clifford_thornton]

Agreed. I never said Doyle was Coltrane or Booker Ervin... sheesh!

[ep1str0phy]

Just got a copy of Willem Breuker Kollektief: Celebrating 25 Years on the Road (a booklet w/a 2CD compilation). Although I'm generally unfamiliar with Breuker's solo material (I enjoy his sideman work with the Globe Unity crowd), I'm a fan of what I've heard. It's nice to hear all this material in a single shot--really drives home the delirium of it all... although there's only so much "evolutionary mobility" with this sort of aesthetic--it's an orgy of cultural convergence, and you can only do so much with a finite set of infinite materials, dig?...

As difficult as it is, this material begs to be examined on its own merits--it's not "free improvisation" or "jazz" or even improvisatory music per se--it's a sort of ethos in sound, and it doesn't transcend its materials... This is the sort of music that's as much prefabricated for the used record bins as it is live theatre--and (although something's clearly lost outside of the performance context) I'm not sure it makes too much of a difference how this stuff is packaged, dispersed, played, or replayed. It's just there--not that there's anything wrong with that.

That being said--any one of you (I know Clifford has his art history thing together, so I'd be interested in hearing some perspective...) have any thoughts on the group? It's not quite forbidding to the relative newcomer, but the "air" of it all (if not the sound) is pretty daunting all the same.

Also--that Saga of the Outlaws cover is mark. Are we any closer to seeing a reissue?

Edited October 30, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[clifford_thornton]

Spent very little time with WBK records, though here and there what I've heard has been interesting. My interest in Breuker tends toward the small groups - such as with Leo Cuypers, Gunter Hampel (ca. late '60s), and his phenomenal work in a duo with Han Bennink.

The Dutch musical theatre interest stems from not only fluxus (Mengelberg was loosely associated) but Dutch dada/neo-dada tendencies going back to at least de Stijl artists like Theo van Doersburg, who professed the ideal of a merger between art and life. Certainly something that hasn't been extensively talked about w/r/t Dutch jazz; I don't remember Whitehead's book getting into Dutch arts in general, though it has been years since I read it.

[John B]

That being said--any one of you have any thoughts on the group? It's not quite forbidding to the relative newcomer, but the "air" of it all (if not the sound) is pretty daunting all the same.

In Holland, on BVHaast, is a fantastic disc and a great place to start exploring the Kollektief.

That said, I haven't felt compelled to seek out too many other discs by the WBK. My impression has been that they do what they do very well, but I don't need to own too many discs of them doing it.

[ep1str0phy]

(another tangent)

What do you guys think of Han Bennink's sax work? He's not exactly a virtuoso, but it's shocking how proficient he is (and not just in the "shock" and "wail" category--I mean articulation, phrasing, etc.).

[Chuck Nessa]

The most important thing is "having an idea of 'what to do'" and he should have that.

One time (circa 1967) Roscoe, Lester, Joseph, Malachi and (maybe) Phillip Wilson were playing at an informal session at the University of Chicago. Joseph moved to piano (for a short time) and did "all the right things" to add to the texture and move the music along. I'll never forget it.

Not really of "importance" overall, but nice to have in the mix.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Chuck Nessa

[Nate Dorward]

(another tangent)

What do you guys think of Han Bennink's sax work? He's not exactly a virtuoso, but it's shocking how proficient he is (and not just in the "shock" and "wail" category--I mean articulation, phrasing, etc.).

Bennink can play just about anything he touches (you heard him play banjo?).

[clifford_thornton]

Agreed and yes, I have... dude can swing branches in the air and it sounds f'in hip!

His brother Peter is more of a "strict" reed-player and I enjoy his work as well.

[B. Clugston]

Peter Bennink has been known to pick up the bagpipes as well.

[ep1str0phy]

Myra Melford told me about touring with Bennink... he'd walk around before shows looking for new things to play on; whatever was at hand, he'd incorporate into the performance. As much has been said about Bennink's more jocular side (and other 'multi' guys, as Chuck mentioned Joseph Jarman), there's a lot to be said for musicality.

[clifford_thornton]

Peter Bennink has been known to pick up the bagpipes as well.

Yep - I counted that among the reed arsenal, but you're right, it/they could use some specificity!