Funny Rat

[David Ayers]

What happened to Chaney? Last I recall he was discussing Guerrilla Mosaics and started a thread with a soundclip which was subsequently deleted. What gives?

[ep1str0phy]

Now that Billy Hart needs a reissue (Enchance--not the guy).

Edited October 18, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[king ubu]

Now that Billy Hart needs a reissue (Enchance--not the guy).

It seems to be very good! I was lucky to get it used from a board (bored?) member some time ago, but I feel like I need to play it a few more times though to really find out about it.

No idea about Tony, but I sure hope all's well! I'll drop him a mail!

[ep1str0phy]

Has there been a CD issue? I'm fond of the A&M reissue packaging--little gatefold digipacks, really colorful (hard to read though, and maybe just obfuscation in the way of distracting from the music... pretty consistent material, though, from what I've heard).

Another (tangential) topic: what do you guys think of Septober Energy? I've heard nothing but terrible things and, granted the cast, the album isn't entirely remarkable--a lot of droning, anonymous rock grooves with some caterwauling far into the mix. That being said, there are some great spots here by the likes of Elton Dean, Paul Rutherford, Dudu Pukwana, Mongezi Feza...

Also: got a Taku Sugimoto album recently (Guitar Quartet)--extremely minimalist... I'd be tempted to call it EAI, but it's modern improv in it's own piece--minute-or-so long intervals between brief, splintered harmonics. There's a review on Bagatellen from a while back which nails it--Sugimoto is incorporating the acoustic environs into the music, toying with blocks of silence. I'm nowhere near equipped to give an extensive analysis on this one, but it certainly seems as if the quartet is taking precedent (the AMM extended family being one) to some new places.

[Chuck Nessa]

Am I the only person confused by discussion of an A&M session in this thread?

[Guest the mommy]

i saw enhance on CD a few years ago but wasn't ready for it.

i thought it would be more wild than it is based on the personnel.

those A and M records have some weird packaging. i like it too. but it's tough to follow. but it's nice to hear from the musicians.

i always hear bad things about septober energy so have avoided it. your review isn't glowing...so i am still unsure. one of those albums which is hard to pass up every time i see it.

i didn't like the first two tippett albums-you are here.... and whats the other one? but he was like 21 or something. generally, i really like tippett from around this time period.

i also didn't love tippett's other big-ass group on ogun with the frames album from 1978ish.

i think it is good but i am not mature enough to appreciate it.

but tippett's work on the recent elton dean japo is beautiful.

and i recently got a disc called "mercy dash" with hopper/galivan/dean/tippett which i really like from the early 80s. better than that groups earlier 70s album. what was that one called? sorry i am forgetting everything. ah, cruel but fair. that one is ok.

tippett is really awesome on trevor watts amalgam groups "innovation". really crazy how inside/outside he is on that one. humorous.

epsitro-have you heard tippett's blueprint? that one intrigues me. produced by fripp.

[Chuck Nessa]

So......now ak is mommy. I might have dreams.

[ep1str0phy]

I've seen but not heard Blueprint. I've been fairly unimpressed with the Tippett I've heard--a little to clean, polite--but I love him on the sideman stuff I've heard (Spirits Rejoice and Isipingo somewhere at the top).

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

Edited October 20, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Chuck Nessa]

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

IMHO, it was a lame attempt to get bucks for decent musicians. No reason to pay for it.

[clifford_thornton]

I'm fond of Blueprint, as well as the Ovary Lodge records (which this essentially is). It's really spare - I mean REALLY spare - but the canvas can get pretty tumultuous at times, even when it seems like very little is going on. Of course, there are some waves of extreme density that, considering the barely-louder-than-the-pressing-noise quality of the quiet passages, makes for really seasick contrasts.

Septober Energy is a solid record, though I don't find myself spinning it that often. Ambitious and noble, with some fine soloists and some great writing, even if it doesn't work all the time - I would say the same thing about Frames. The Tippett small groups are where it's at for me; I can dig equally on Ovary Lodge or the groups he led with Elton Dean, Mark Charig and Nick Evans. "Wa-hey!"

[clifford_thornton]

So......now ak is mommy. I might have dreams.

Between the mommy and A&M, I'd say Funny Rat has gone into a totally different time zone.

[clifford_thornton]

i didn't like the first two tippett albums-you are here.... and whats the other one? but he was like 21 or something. generally, i really like tippett from around this time period.

You Are Here, I am There - Polydor, 1969

Dean, Charig, Evans, Clyne, Marshall, Tippett

Dedicated to You, But You Weren't Listening - Vertigo, 1970

Dean, Charig, Evans, Whitehead, Babbington, Gary Boyle, Tony Uta, Wyatt, Howard, Spring

I like both of these quite a bit. He was doing a lot more than I was at 21!

[king ubu]

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

IMHO, it was a lame attempt to get bucks for decent musicians. No reason to pay for it.

Really? Have you played it again in recent years? I think it's quite good.

[ep1str0phy]

i didn't like the first two tippett albums-you are here.... and whats the other one? but he was like 21 or something. generally, i really like tippett from around this time period.

You Are Here, I am There - Polydor, 1969

Dean, Charig, Evans, Clyne, Marshall, Tippett

Dedicated to You, But You Weren't Listening - Vertigo, 1970

Dean, Charig, Evans, Whitehead, Babbington, Gary Boyle, Tony Uta, Wyatt, Howard, Spring

I like both of these quite a bit. He was doing a lot more than I was at 21!

I had forgotten how young Tippett was at the time... damn! Great compositions, some good spots--but I get the feeling (just hear the first one) that the band is really holding back. It may have something to do with how it was all recorded, but I've certainly heard more powerful music from these guys.

Surprised at the reaction to the A&M though--everything else I've heard has been positive... though we take all opinions into account, and I'll keep an open mind when I hear it. (we now return to your regularly scheduled FR...)

[clifford_thornton]

I hear you re: the Tippett Polydor, but consider that he was working with Ronnie Scott in the late '60s and though he certainly knew the (slightly older) heavies, Tippett wasn't quite there yet himself.

Honestly, it took about another year for those guys to really take it there. You listen to Dean, Tippett, etc. in 1970 and it's a whole 'nother story. But that said, I still get into the Polydor. It's a strong record.

[Guest the mommy]

i think i just funny rat-ted myself out...

had some $$$ so i picked up some CDs.

finally got alan shorter's "tes estat", arthur doyle's "alabama feeling" (how come i had no idea this was on CD???), sabu toyozumi'a "message to chicago" (didn't know this was on CD either!), mike osborne's "shapes", sun ra's "strange celestial road" (how come i ddn't know about this one before?)....and that "green line" disc discussed elsewhere.

but yeah i think i rat-ted myself out.

i am listening to the doyle right now. not sure about it yet. i think i like it. the electric bass is kind of cool in this situation, actually. usually people play e-bass too fast but this guy is going real slow.

actually this song is good (track 3) though it seemed to end quite abruptly.

[ep1str0phy]

I'm a fan of Richard Williams (the bass player on Alabama Feeling), although he never seemed to break into the elite of free jazz bassists (strangely, too--played with Sun Ra for a while, did some excellent work with Steve Reid and Noah Howard, registered some fine appearances in numerous settings). Perhaps it has something to do with his instrument of choice (electric versus acoustic, upright bass) and all the amateurism nonsense that that entails. For whatever it's worth, he's a master in his idiom--I like how he plays around, and not below Doyle (not doing your usual heavy-handed, accelerated pizz that a lot of free bassists are so fond of)... there are times when he sounds like a second, more ponderous horn (dig those glisses!).

Edited October 22, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[clifford_thornton]

Alabama Feeling and Tes Esat in one day? Think you can handle it, Ak-Ma?

I like both of those records quite a bit... as for electric bassists, Earl Freeman's my man, but Williams isn't a slouch by any means. I think Charles Stephens may be the player holding Alabama Feeling together, keeping it from becoming a complete mess - but even in the messier parts, it's still really nice.

Sabu Toyozumi is an amazing drummer, and that Nadja record is pretty sweet. His duos with Abe are unreal, however...

Edited October 22, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[Chuck Nessa]

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

IMHO, it was a lame attempt to get bucks for decent musicians. No reason to pay for it.

Really? Have you played it again in recent years? I think it's quite good.

Have not listened in recent years. It could be nice but the feeling of "missed opportunity" lingers. I was hearing all these folks live at the time and the record seemed a huge compromise. I'm certain the musicians didn't embarrassed themselves and delivered a decent project.

[David Ayers]

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

IMHO, it was a lame attempt to get bucks for decent musicians. No reason to pay for it.

Really? Have you played it again in recent years? I think it's quite good.

Have not listened in recent years. It could be nice but the feeling of "missed opportunity" lingers. I was hearing all these folks live at the time and the record seemed a huge compromise. I'm certain the musicians didn't embarrassed themselves and delivered a decent project.

I had the CD and sold it on (probably to someone on this board). It is one of those that you want to hear, but once you have heard it you find yourself able to let go.

[clifford_thornton]

I've seen the Enhance LP around for $5 or less. Never bought it, though Eugene Chadbourne seems enthused...

The band looks pretty good, actually. I'd forgotten the lineup. I can only imagine what such a group would sound like live, however.

[Guest the mommy]

crazy!

on the same day i bought sun ra's "strange celestial road" and arthur doyle's "alabama feeling" and....they both have richard williams on bass. couldn't be any more different albums. interesting coincidence, no?

i agree the trombone player on the doyle keeps it together. glad he's there.

[ep1str0phy]

Sabu Toyozumi is an amazing drummer, and that Nadja record is pretty sweet. His duos with Abe are unreal, however...

Hell yeah. Abe is just so eloquent on those--verging on Dolphian, but just disaffected and 'f-you' enough to remain distinctly Abe. Those are fine duos.

-By the way, Clifford--how's your inquest into Japanese free improv going?

[clifford_thornton]

It's going... picking up what I can here and there. I still find Abe a little cold enough of the time, but that may change.

Getting primed to do a japanimprov.com order later in the week - I certainly am getting an idea of who I'm interested in hearing more from.

[clifford_thornton]

I've seen the Enhance LP around for $5 or less. Never bought it, though Eugene Chadbourne seems enthused...

Picked up the LP for $4 last night. It's not bad, though certainly could've lived without it. Pullen is weird, as usual, so that's nice. I found Hart's drums too under-miked (or something) for my listening pleasure - it seemed like the session was missing its bottom end, and the top was sometimes a little too "clean" to warrant a lack of reasonable force.