king ubu Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Had an earful of "Dissonant Characters" and it's excellent indeed! big once more for Ellery Eskelin, who in my opinion is one of the most interesting tenor men around these days! And keeping in mind he was around for almost ten years, let's hope he will be around and kickin' for some decades to come! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 big once more for Ellery Eskelin, who in my opinion is one of the most interesting tenor men around these days! And keeping in mind he was around for almost ten years, let's hope he will be around and kickin' for some decades to come! I couldn't agree more AA i picked up a copy of The Multiplication Table from Zwein ..ZWite .. Zweintend .. 2001 .. um the German website that has good deals on it a couple of months ago - its a fine CD . PM me if you dont have any luck getting a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 AA i picked up a copy of The Multiplication Table from Zwein ..ZWite .. Zweintend .. 2001 .. um the German website that has good deals on it a couple of months ago - its a fine CD . PM me if you dont have any luck getting a copy. It's no longer listed on the Zweitausendeins site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Thanks to couw for heads up - got Multiplication tble from amazon.de market seller. There seem to be more copies available there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Have you guys checked out Franz Koglmann's Between the Lines label? Some very interesting music there. A number of these are available here. These babies generally sell for $17, but through the 9th (at Tower, and perhaps not much help for our EU friends) are $12.74. Also'd like to know what you all think of Koglmann in general, Thom Jurek's remarks notwithstanding. Also, though I'm sure many here at The Comical Rodent Thread have visited this site before, don't forget to check out The European Free Improvisation Homepage. Updated every so often, it's an invaluable resource for this thread's type of cheese-eater. (I think I'll take a cambozola.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Late, I stumbled upon that site last week, did not really check it out yet. Thanks for mentioning it! I have not yet checked out Koglmann either, but he's on my radar. David, if you ordered from cds-24.de - I ordered something from them via Amazon France and I just got a money refund Hope it doesn't end this way with you! By the way, the Chapin box is on its way to me! (from Amazon Germany) ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Had an earful of "Dissonant Characters" and it's excellent indeed! big once more for Ellery Eskelin, who in my opinion is one of the most interesting tenor men around these days! Totally agree. His playing on Dissonant Characters is probably the most "direct" and powerful of his that I'ver heard. Eskelin reminds me Dewey Redman quite a bit here. And Bennink is of course as Bennink as you can imagine. I saw this duo live a couple of months ago, and the concert was pretty weak compared to recording (which is also a live recording). Have you guys checked out Franz Koglmann's Between the Lines label? I have only a couple of their releases - Köglmann's "Venus in Transit" and Andreas Willer's tribute to Jimmy Giuffre (with Paul Bley, forgot the title). Both are pretty good, but not outstanding. I am really interested in checking out John Lindberg (I have his The Catbird Sings with Andrew Cyrille, Larry Ochs and Wadada Leo Smith on Black Saint (2000) and it is fantastic) and Jerry Hemingway releases. Regarding Maneris, I frankly have a bit of a problem with papa Joe's music - it sounds very dry and ...boring at times. Also, his discs sound quite the same to me. I like Hats more than his other releases (I also have an ECM one with Mat and Barre Phillips, and Leo one with Mat plus bass and drums) - I think they are more lively and dynamic, probably to some extent due to Ed Schuller's precence. Mat Maneri is another story. His hatOLOGY duo with Matthew Shipp (Gravitational Systems) is beautiful - lyrical and very melodic, and so is his trio Fever Bed on Leo Lab, which is quite different though. Maneri is bluesy(different from his microtonal sound with papa Joe), hinting a lot at tradition (Stuff Smith, really). Ed Schuller is also quite in tradition - beautiful woody sound, "walking" in time most of the time actually. Drummer Randy Peterson is probably the most "out" here, and is quite aggressive (compared to relaxed Manery and Schuller) but he creates a nice interactive conflict. My only complaint is that drums are a bit too upfront in the mix, but otherwise it's great great music, and probably the best I heard from Manery so far. I also have Maneri trio's So What? (hatOLOGY), but I remember being not quite happy about it. I've read a lot of rave reviews of Maneri's recent Of Consequence on Leo, so this is the one by Maneri I'll be getting next. Thinking about it, I am pretty sure I have some other Mat's stuff in my collection, but don't remember it. Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 I think I like Mat Maneri best in Joe Morris's quartet. Violin (or viola) and guitar have come some distance since Stephane and Django. Both duos are brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) Unlike D.D. (Д.Д.), I quite enjoy Joe Maneri's playing, at least on the discs I've heard so far. I'm now playing and I like it a lot. Edited February 7, 2004 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Speaking of Mat Maneri, anyone heard this one?: Reaching (Leo Lab CD 062) Steven Lantner (acoustic piano & variable-pitch digital piano) Mat Maneri (electric violins) Here's what AMG has to say: These totally improvised duets between pianist Steven Lantner and electric violinist Mat Maneri explore the outer limits of jazz harmonies and rhythms. Lantner and Maneri are well known for their work with micro-tonalities: their ability to squeeze notes between the lines. Here, Lantner uses an acoustic piano placed at a 90-degree angle to a digital synthesizer, while Maneri strums both a fretless six-string and a five-string baritone model. This set-up permits a versatility that translates to some extraordinary music. By listening carefully and never engaging in emotional bloodletting, they participate in conversations of great depth, ranging from "Planet o' Love" to "Waltzing" to "Old Style." This is not easy music to digest, but the rewards are constant. The sound is unique and even exquisite at times. — Steve Loewy I have it and (warning: exageration ahead) I don't believe there's a second of it that I like or enjoy -- or perhaps, to be fair, that I'm capable (? ) of liking or enjoying. I can't remember when I last heard a disk that so very obviously screamed IMPROVISED... and in this case, I don't mean that in a good way. This one goes in my pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Speaking of Mat Maneri, anyone heard this one?: Reaching (Leo Lab CD 062) Steven Lantner (acoustic piano & variable-pitch digital piano) Mat Maneri (electric violins) I have it and (warning: exageration ahead) I don't believe there's a second of it that I like or enjoy -- or perhaps, to be fair, that I'm capable (? ) of liking or enjoying. I can't remember when I last heard a disk that so very obviously screamed IMPROVISED... and in this case, I don't mean that in a good way. This one goes in my pile. Listened to it today for the first time, and liked it quite a bit. It does get pretty dense and directionless at times (and at 70+ minutes the CD is a probably tad too long), but overall I find the musicancip and (particularly) interplay to be on a very high level, keeping me interested most of the time. The music is very much in the academic tradition of the XX century (2nd Viennese school, etc.), to my ear. And I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Thanks for your comments Д.Д. Have you heard Lantner on any other releases? (My problem with Reaching is Lantner and not Maneri.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Have you heard Lantner on any other releases? (My problem with Reaching is Lantner and not Maneri.) I haven't. I will most likely skip the Leo one, since Joe Morris plays guitar on it, but I might eventually pick up the one on Riti, since Morris plays bass there (and surprisingly, he is a very reserved bass player), and I am curious to hear what Lantner will sound like with bass and drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 What, no love for Morris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 What, no love for Morris? From what I've heard, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 D.D., if you haven't already, you might try Illuminate on Leo. Morris with Rob Brown, bass and drums. It's the recording that opened up my ears to Morris, and how, in some ways, he's coming out of a Jim Hall conception, albeit with heavy alterations (though without distortion of sound). Worth investigating at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 A while back someone had asked about the Orchester 33 1/3 disc, I can't remember who it was. I recently had a chance to hear it and it is interesting, but not essential. I lucked out and found two Last Exit albums on vinyl for under $5 each the other day. I know have the self-titled album and Noise of Trouble (with Herbie Hancock? curious to hear how he fits into the mix) to explore this week. My favorite Joe Morris, so far, is Age of Everything, on Riti. I was very impreressed by Timo Shanko on bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 A while back someone had asked about the Orchester 33 1/3 disc, I can't remember who it was. I recently had a chance to hear it and it is interesting, but not essential. I lucked out and found two Last Exit albums on vinyl for under $5 each the other day. I know have the self-titled album and Noise of Trouble (with Herbie Hancock? curious to hear how he fits into the mix) to explore this week. I also got the Orchester 33 1/3 disc, and enjoyed it a lot - I will post my impressions of it in due course. John, Herbie Hancock's contribution is actually the least interesting part of this great Last Exit album Latge, thanks for recommendation on Morris - I might check Illuminate out. The only problem is that I am not a particularly big fan of Rob Brown and William Parker either, so my hope is only on Jackson Krall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Damn, I'm a big fan of Brown's. But, that's what makes for a diverse audience. Wouldn't have it any other way. Brown's Scratching the Surface on CIMP (161) with Assif Tsahar takes up, in some ways, where Ornette's quartet with Dewey Redman left off. Another Brown-esque alto player that I admire is Ori Kaplan. That guy is one to watch. So, too, is Rudresh Mahanthappa, actually an old college buddy. Both have fine chops and an abudance of ideas flowing out of the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 That guy is one to watch. So, too, is Rudresh Mahanthappa, actually an old college buddy. Both have fine chops and an abudance of ideas flowing out of the horn. I agree 100%. His album, Black Water, is fantastic. I also really enjoy his playing on Vijay Iyer's discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 I've mostly disliked the Joe Morris I've heard--he just doesn't know when to stop--but I do recommend the disc Prophet Moon by Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, & Morris (on Riti). It's great stuff. -- Illuminate is OK but it's very episodic--the longer compositions don't really make much sense as wholes, though there's good bits in all the tracks. I don't seem to have stumbled on many good Morris discs--acquired & then got rid of No Vertigo, Many Rings & the dumb Eloping with the Sun. Probably not the world's best sample of his work, but after having heard 7 Morris records at last count & seen 2 concerts of his, & only really gotten a lot out of Prophet Moon I think I've cut him enough slack. I've never really warmed all that much to the Maneris either, though I've gotten much keener on Mat since he ditched the electric violin & switched to acoustic viola--replacing the ponderous sound of the former with a greater featheriness on the latter. He does have a curiously bitty way of phrasing his solos which is certainly individual, irritating or pleasingly different depending on my mood. -- Haven't heard any of Joe's recent stuff--only have Let the Horse Go & Three Men Walking from the 1990s, both of them quite interesting but sometimes hard going (TMW is very, very dry in places). Yes Mahanthappa is excellent; I don't know Black Water but Iyer's Blood Sutra was one of the major discs of the past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Perhaps my favorite singular performance of Mat Maneri's (though I certainly haven't heard all his recorded work) is his unaccompanied viola solo "Lattice" from his Trinity disc on ECM. I have to admit, on the other hand, that his duo hat disc with Matthew Shipp left me cold, and I ended up giving it away. Maybe shouldn't have, but ... did it. Nate, the way you feel about Morris is kind of the way I feel about Derek Bailey. I'm still trying to access that guy's music (which of course is much different than Morris's, at least to my ears). I can appreciate Bailey more than enjoy him, and this always disturbs me. Oh well. Rudy (he used to go by Rudy) Mahanthappa used to have a great (or maybe just funny) impression of Albert Ayler when he was at North Texas. I'd yell "Ghosts!" as I walked past his dorm room door, and he'd go into it. Once we drank too much Ernest and Julio Gallo, and played "Feel So Good" walking down the hall. Then he got a lot better and transferred to Berklee, and I pretty much gave up the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 I picked up some more hats (and I'm ruined now...): Mat Maneri, So What Koglmann, the Duke Ellington tribute with Lee Konitz Maneri /Shipp duo, after reading D.D.'s assessment Shipp's Strata (OOP I think, as is the Maneri/Shipp, no?) I will report on Koglmann and Maneris. They clearly don't seem to be everybody's cup of tea. However, I like that Papa Jo disc ("Tenderly") rather well after initial listening, and I would certainly like to get the OOP one Hans posted above, as well as Mat's OOP "Acceptance" - working towards my own private hat Mosaic... ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 After reading everybody's comments on Morris, I guess the Shipp/Morris "Thesis" is one I can live without, or anyone can recommend that? ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 After reading everybody's comments on Morris, I guess the Shipp/Morris "Thesis" is one I can live without, or anyone can recommend that? ubu No. A Joe Morris outing that I like quite a bit is Underthru (OmniTone 11904) with Mat Maneri, Chris Lightcap on bass and Gerald Cleaver on drums. Of course, as I tend to enjoy the playing of the other musicians on this one more that Morris, I may like it in spite of the presence of Morris. Especially enjoyable is the title track. Here's Joe's words: The title piece is a medium tempo vamp in 6/4 with a freely placed overlayed melody. The violin plays the first solo which allows me to do some very spare comping. Writers always say that I don't play chords or comp. The main reason for me to work in a quartet is so I can comp. I do a lot of it but I try to never do it in a predictible way so they miss it. It's not possible to listen to that track without having your body respond in an almost alarmingly dance-like way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.