Funny Rat

[John B]

Let me again recommend the Giuffre I mentioned above - I am impressed by the tracks with Phillips/Friedman.

I've added it to "the list" along with the Von Freeman mentioned above. That one sounds fantastic!

[John B]

by the way, if all goes well I should have a new computer with a functioning cd burner (for the first time in almost a year) by early next week. If I do, I'll be offering up a few goodies to my friends in Funny Rat-land.

[king ubu]

Let me again recommend the Giuffre I mentioned above - I am impressed by the tracks with Phillips/Friedman.

I've added it to "the list" along with the Von Freeman mentioned above. That one sounds fantastic!

John, I haven't yet found the time to listen to the "Improvisor" by Freeman, but from what I've read it has to be just as good, if not better. There's a third recent one, as well. An Amazon search will bring up the title fast.

I'll post my impressions of the "The Improvisor" latest on the weekend.

And @ all concerned: I haven't forgotten the Brotzl thing, but I just put almost all of my jazz/music/listening/www-browsing etc. time into the Basie website, for several weeks now.

ubu

[king ubu]

Again Giuffre - John, are you familiar with him? The Mosaic is great (and OOP), and "Free Fall" (Columbia/Legacy) as well as the two Verve albums (reissued on ECM, a two CD set called something with "1961" it the title) are standout recordings!

If you're not yet familiar with Giuffre, I'd start with the original "Giuffre 3" album (Atlantic, part of the Mosaic, but available separately, too), and the ECM set.

ubu

[Д.Д.]

welcome back!  I'm surprised by some of the discs that you panned.  I'd really be interested in hearing your thoughts on the ones I quoted above.

OK, I start with the ones I didn'tlike

Sunny Murray / Charles Gayle "Illuminators"

This is a well-recorded duo on Audible Hiss records from mid 90s. I think it's OOP by now.

To begin wiht, Gayle plays piano almost exclusively, and his style is adequate, but nothing special, IMO. Not particularly focused... Monkish a bit... not bad in general, but really nothing that could hold my attention.

And then (and I know I now have strong chances of getting into P.L.M.'s ignore list) - I really don't like Sunny Murray's playing. Neither here, not in 90% of CDs I heard him at, including the famous 60s stuff). It sounds awkward and even random somtimes, extremely heavy-handed (no subtlety or newance - just constant muddy waves, IMO), and monotone. Morever, this trademark constant high-hat pulse is extremely annoying to me.

Overall, if we take the first generaton of "avant garde" drummers - Sunny Murray, Rashied Ali and Milford Graves (and this is of course a grand simplification to cite only these three as first "jazz avant" drummers), I much more prefere the latter two (well, Graves is one of my favorite drumers of all times, together with Blackwell and Oxley). I remeber reading Sunny Murray's interview in which he said he was supposed to be Coltrane's drummer after Elvin left (take it for what it's worth), and just can't imagine them fitting well...

Next is Pharoah Sanders "Live At The East" (Impulse! Japan) -and also a pretty big for me. First I would like to note that Sanders' tenot sound is one of my favorite sounds in music. His best solos (as the on on Coltrane's "Olatunji" concert.... pheeeew). I love the man, to put it short. So I didn't hesitate spending some big $$ on this OOP, and was disappointed quite a bit.

To me this sounds like flower-power find-the-peace-in-your-inner-self type of jazzy improv. Easy pretty hummable mid-to-slow tempo "spiritual jazz" themes repeated all over again (I guess you should be clapping along.. or shake your tambourine), pink volcano piano solos, some droning idian instrument at the background (tampura?), chants (of course), a little bit of groove, some catharsis saxophone screaming (but not too much)... Predictable and very dated. I was expecting some interesting interplay from two bassists (one is Cecil McBeee, the second one I don't remember) - but they just play some groovy walking lines, pretty somilar to each other - nothing particularly challenging or exciting.

I really find this all much more "commercial" that later-perioud Pharoah playing mainstream (which I like). Of course, I cannot say that Sanders was just following the trend or was not sincere in what he was doing - not at all, but the result despite its obvious "spiritual" inclination sounds very shallow to me.

I have a couple other Sanders' Impulse! CDs, and I think they follow more or less the same pattern as on this one (the one I remember has Leon Thomas singing "the creator has a master plan..."), except for Tauhid, which I thought was beautiful (with some amazing Henry Grimes).

Edited September 2, 2004 by Д.Д.

[John B]

Again Giuffre - John, are you familiar with him? The Mosaic is great (and OOP), and "Free Fall" (Columbia/Legacy) as well as the two Verve albums (reissued on ECM, a two CD set called something with "1961" it the title) are standout recordings!

If you're not yet familiar with Giuffre, I'd start with the original "Giuffre 3" album (Atlantic, part of the Mosaic, but available separately, too), and the ECM set.

ubu

I've never heard the Mosaic but those other ones (Free Fall and the 1961 set) are the only discs by him I have heard, and I enjoy all of them. I was lucky enough to find those at the local library back before I moved.

[John B]

welcome back!  I'm surprised by some of the discs that you panned.  I'd really be interested in hearing your thoughts on the ones I quoted above.

OK, I start with the ones I didn'tlike

Next is Pharoah Sanders "Live At The East" (Impulse! Japan) -and also a pretty big for me. First I would like to note that Sanders' tenot sound is one of my favorite sounds in music. His best solos (as the on on Coltrane's "Olatunji" concert.... pheeeew). I love the man, to put it short. So I didn't hesitate spending some big $$ on this OOP, and was disappointed quite a bit.

To me this sounds like flower-power find-the-peace-in-your-inner-self type of jazzy improv. Easy pretty hummable mid-to-slow tempo "spiritual jazz" themes repeated all over again (I guess you should be clapping along.. or shake your tambourine), pink volcano piano solos, some droning idian instrument at the background (tampura?), chants (of course), a little bit of groove, some catharsis saxophone screaming (but not too much)... Predictable and very dated. I was expecting some interesting interplay from two bassists (one is Cecil McBeee, the second one I don't remember) - but they just play some groovy walking lines, pretty somilar to each other - nothing particularly challenging or exciting.

I really find this all much more "commercial" that later-perioud Pharoah playing mainstream (which I like). Of course, I cannot say that Sanders was just following the trend or was not sincere in what he was doing - not at all, but the result despite its obvious "spiritual" inclination sounds very shallow to me.

I have a couple other Sanders' Impulse! CDs, and I think they follow more or less the same pattern as on this one (the one I remember has Leon Thomas singing "the creator has a master plan..."), except for Thembi, which I thought was beautiful (with some amazing Henry Grimes).

before I got to the end of your review I thought that you were describing something very like his album Karma, which is where the "creator has a master plan" line comes from. I was shocked when I first heard that run of Impulse albums. I had been expecting something more in line with his playing on Coltrane's Live in Seattle.

Edited September 2, 2004 by John B

[Д.Д.]

Again Giuffre - John, are you familiar with him? The Mosaic is great (and OOP), and "Free Fall" (Columbia/Legacy) as well as the two Verve albums (reissued on ECM, a two CD set called something with "1961" it the title) are standout recordings!

If you're not yet familiar with Giuffre, I'd start with the original "Giuffre 3" album (Atlantic, part of the Mosaic, but available separately, too), and the ECM set.

ubu

I've never heard the Mosaic but those other ones (Free Fall and the 1961 set) are the only discs by him I have heard, and I enjoy all of them. I was lucky enough to find those at the local library back before I moved.

Get the recent The Easy Way Verve reissue. It's from pre-Free Fall era (in a trio with Jim Hall and Ray Brown), so it is quite different, but very charming, clever and quetely experimental (but much less so than the Free Fall trio, of course). It should be available cheap everywhere.

Edited September 2, 2004 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

I have a couple other Pharoah Sanders' Impulse! CDs, and I think they follow more or less the same pattern as on this one (the one I remember has Leon Thomas singing "the creator has a master plan..."), except for Tauhid, which I thought was beautiful (with some amazing Henry Grimes).

before I got to the end of your review I thought that you were describing something very like his album Karma, which is where the "creator has a master plan" line comes from. I was shocked when I first heard that run of Impulse albums. I had been expecting something more in line with his playing on Coltrane's Live in Seattle.

ANybody heard Pharoah's disc on ESP btw? I still haven't checked this one out.

Edited September 2, 2004 by Д.Д.

[king ubu]

Again Giuffre - John, are you familiar with him? The Mosaic is great (and OOP), and "Free Fall" (Columbia/Legacy) as well as the two Verve albums (reissued on ECM, a two CD set called something with "1961" it the title) are standout recordings!

If you're not yet familiar with Giuffre, I'd start with the original "Giuffre 3" album (Atlantic, part of the Mosaic, but available separately, too), and the ECM set.

ubu

I've never heard the Mosaic but those other ones (Free Fall and the 1961 set) are the only discs by him I have heard, and I enjoy all of them. I was lucky enough to find those at the local library back before I moved.

Ok, so you should like the Paris disc! The first (1960) concert has the original trio's Jim Hall on guitar, Giuffre on tenor/baritone/clarinet, and Wilford (Wilfred?) Middlebrooks on bass. They play music that is quite similar to what you could hear if you had the Mosaic. Several of the Atlantic albums have been reissued, separately, but they might be a bit too nice'n'easy if you like the Bley/Swallow trio.

The second part then should be a nice addition to the Giuffre/Bley/Swallow trio discs. As I said above, I think it's quite different, but not less fascinating.

ubu

[John B]

ANybody heard Pharoah's disc on ESP btw? I still haven't checked this one out.

yes, but I haven't listened to it in a very long time. I'll pull it out tonight and let you know how it compares to Karma vs. later Coltrane.

edit - the live Giuffre sounds very good, indeed!

Edited September 2, 2004 by John B

[king ubu]

Again Giuffre - John, are you familiar with him? The Mosaic is great (and OOP), and "Free Fall" (Columbia/Legacy) as well as the two Verve albums (reissued on ECM, a two CD set called something with "1961" it the title) are standout recordings!

If you're not yet familiar with Giuffre, I'd start with the original "Giuffre 3" album (Atlantic, part of the Mosaic, but available separately, too), and the ECM set.

ubu

I've never heard the Mosaic but those other ones (Free Fall and the 1961 set) are the only discs by him I have heard, and I enjoy all of them. I was lucky enough to find those at the local library back before I moved.

Get the recent The Easy Way Verve reissue. It's from pre-Free Fall era (in a trio with Jim Hall and Ray Brown), so it is quite different, but very charming, clever and quetely experimental (but much less so than the Free Fall trio, of course). It should be available cheap everywhere.

Thanks, it's on "the list"... (as are many of those Verve LPRs, too many)

Sounds like the Atlantic trios - though the later Atlantics, with Giuffre/Brookmeyer/Hall are something else again, replacing bass with a second horn was quite an idea! Quietly innovative, that's what Giuffre was, yes.

Also his playing and that folksy vibe he had was sort of like a "poor man's" Horace Silver, or rather: a countryside version of the "folksy" (or rather "bluesy" and "urban") hard bop music happening at the same time.

I don't know the Sanders ESP, by the way. Have some Impulses, but don't really know them too well, would have to listen to them all to post any impressions.

ubu

[John B]

Get the recent The Easy Way Verve reissue. It's from pre-Free Fall era (in a trio with Jim Hall and Ray Brown), so it is quite different, but very charming, clever and quetely experimental (but much less so than the Free Fall trio, of course). It should be available cheap everywhere.

Thanks, it's on "the list"... (as are many of those Verve LPRs, too many)

[king ubu]

Get the recent The Easy Way Verve reissue. It's from pre-Free Fall era (in a trio with Jim Hall and Ray Brown), so it is quite different, but very charming, clever and quetely experimental (but much less so than the Free Fall trio, of course). It should be available cheap everywhere.

Thanks, it's on "the list"... (as are many of those Verve LPRs, too many)

This is turning into a very expensive discussion we are having here!

[Д.Д.]

Get the recent The Easy Way Verve reissue. It's from pre-Free Fall era (in a trio with Jim Hall and Ray Brown), so it is quite different, but very charming, clever and quetely experimental (but much less so than the Free Fall trio, of course). It should be available cheap everywhere.

Thanks, it's on "the list"... (as are many of those Verve LPRs, too many)

This is turning into a very expensive discussion we are having here!

[couw]

Hey, couw - how about posting your Vonski impressions, as you're lurking?

I can't, I'm too busy listening too this one:

from 1992, more of the same, good stuff that is. Pretty loose and admittedly a wee bit wavering at times, I find it very enjoyable and nicely enticing.

[Д.Д.]

Hey, couw - how about posting your Vonski impressions, as you're lurking?

I can't, I'm too busy listening too this one:

Giuffre-Bley-Swallaw "Fly Away Little Bird"

from 1992, more of the same, good stuff that is. Pretty loose and admittedly a wee bit wavering at times, I find it very enjoyable and nicely enticing.

I htought this one was the weakest of the three Owl releases (the other two being Life of a Trio discs). I also have the one on Soul Note ("Conversation With a Goose", I think it's called), the last one this trio did, but listened to it only once and it didn't really grab me.

[couw]

I htought this one was the weakest of the three Owl releases (the other two being Life of a Trio discs). I also have the one on Soul Note ("Conversation With a Goose", I think it's called), the last one this trio did, but listened to it only once and it didn't really grab me.

ah yes, but it doesn't all need to grab to the same extent now does it? It's pretty stuff to have playing in the background yet rewarding enough at close listen. Nothing spectacular, nothing earth shattering, not even memorable really. Yet nice.

[couw]

for Ubu, now listening:

Schwinggg! great drive and relentless playing on a wild version of bye bye blackbird.

As I wrote before elsewhere on this board, I hear some Kirk in Von Freeman, probably just a twist of a personal nature, but the blues driven forward moving phrasing reminds me of that master of the horn(s). As do some of the tonal inflections. This is not to say that they're hard to tell apart, just that neither is alone on his planet in the universe inside my ears.

[Д.Д.]

What on earth was going on at Columbia when they recorded this (and the Sonny Murray album they never released)?

The Greene album was produced by one John Hammond! Was Columbia trying to get hip and follow ESP's path?

Here is a curious recollection of the session from SUnny Murray interview:

Q: Talking of lost albums, whatever happened to your album for Columbia [“Spiritual Infinity”, from 1968, featuring Clifford Thornton, Arthur Jones, Dave Burrell, Alan Silva, Juni Booth, Frank Wright and Art Lewis and “possibly others”]?

Murray:That was a great record, but they never put it out. Great orchestration. Matter of fact Frank Wright's first record [third in fact, after the two Wright ESP albums from 1965 and 1967 respectively]. He was in a group with fourteen of the baddest cats in New York, and he played wonderfully to be one of the newest, not being a real academic musician, you know. For that record I did some crazy stuff – I wrote some very nice music for that record. One of the compositions was like an experimental piece, like a John Cage piece – I had a lot of different sound things, and I had a siren. I didn't want the band to know it... I wanted to see their reaction... The band was playing their ass off and I started to work the siren real low rrrrrrrrrr so that only I could hear it. (That's another thing in Helmholtz, playing above and below the audible level... That's why moms and grandmoms say what kids play today is loud, because they're used to listening to the radio at a lower level, and kids today above it...) So I started working the siren, and I raised it rrrrrrrrrr to their level, and when I got to their level – it was a great experience – the whole band heard it together and didn't know what the fuck it was! I was behind them at my drums watching their reaction, and they got hot, their hearts beat faster, I was really messing with 'em RRRRRRRRRR and then THE BAND STOPPED. Nobody could get their breath to challenge this sound... but Frank Wright continued! (Laughs) He continued, I raised it higher, he continued, I raised it higher and finally he stopped, he couldn't continue no more! He says “MURRAY WHAT THE HELL IS THAT MAN?!” I told everybody, it's a siren!

[king ubu]

Great story, D.D.! Thanks for sharing. I guess that would be a session to have with alternates and false starts and farts and sirens included...

couw: I am not sure about Kirk in Freeman, didn't hear it, so far. I'll listen to "The Improvisor" over the weekend, and will listen for it.

The only other Vonski disc I have is the "Tenors" with Lateef. Sometimes there I find it pretty hard to tell them apart. Both got that full-bodied sound, loose phrasing etc. Love it!

ubu

PS: on these "Tenors" discs: haven't heard the Ford, but couldn't warm to the Shepp.

[king ubu]

(thanks, David!)

Very joyful, loose music. The first track makes me think this music would not have been possible if it weren't for Abdullah Ibrahim... Really like it! It's as melodious as the more "in" italian jazz (Fresu, for instance), yet there is more to it. All four musicians (all unknown to me before) are very good!

Now listening to Henry Grimes' ESP disc the third time, and I think it does get better.

ubu

[gnhrtg]

Might have mentioned this already but want to spread the word on the new release by Evan Parker/Paul Lytton/Alexander von Schlippenbach & Peter Brotzmann/William Parker/Hamid Drake double trio on Victo "The Bishop's Move" recorded live in 2003. A 73 minute long track is what it is. I picked this up very recently and could only listen to it once so far, sounded rather good - I might make that very good as I give it another spin or two.

[king ubu]

Sounds good! What is a good online source to get Victo releases from? I'll need that Phillips, too!

ubu

[Nate Dorward]

Cadence, Verge & AMG all carry Victo.

I was at the concert released on the disc. I had conflicting feelings about it at the time: here's the extract from the festival review I did:

As with the same-instrument pileups earlier in the week, the climactic double-trio gig by the Evan Parker and Peter Brötzmann trios (not a double bill, but a one-time-only sextet) was an instance of that dubious phenomenon, the "festival supergroup". Not that it was a bust - far from it. As usual with recent Parker the performance was parcelled out among subsections of the ensemble, like territory carved up by wary diplomats around the negotiating table. The two groups were respectively: Evan Parker, Alex von Schlippenbach (replacing Guy) and Paul Lytton; and Brötzmann, William Parker and Hamid Drake. A brief sextet war-whoop opened proceedings, following which Brötzmann's gang cleared the stage and left the Parker/Schlippenbach/Lytton trio to do their thing, which they did with characteristic aplomb. Schlippenbach began patiently preparing the inside of his piano with cymbals, at which point Brötz's crew returned at full blast, so the pianist had to undo all his work and join the melee; Evan immediately walked off into the wings (not from annoyance, I think, simply due to a need to change a reed), and after an awkward transition we were left with a Schlippenbach/Lytton/Drake trio, which - ironically, given the absence of the two marquee names - took up a fair proportion of the concert and was one of the highlights. The drummers were a study in contrast: Lytton setting to work with a Popeye squint, Drake incorrigibly showing off, both clearly enjoying the encounter. The pianist, talking fervently to himself, turned his favourite figures around and around again, as if rotating an object with both hands. After a few more spins of the dial we reached the Brötzmann trio slot, which found Brötz shaking a tarogato in his chops like a dog with a chew toy while Drake and William Parker hit a nice bass/frame-drum groove. Inevitably the whole awkward, enjoyable, fearsome, absurd and impressive spectacle lurched towards an earsplitting sextet climax, followed by a similarly inclined encore. The spirits of Coltrane and Ayler seemed appeased for the moment. As long loud blows go it was a good one, though I still would have liked to hear the trios separately in addition to this shotgun marriage.

Will be interested to hear how it comes across on disc. Probably makes a welcome change from Parker's generally more quiescent recent records.