couw Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 this is inacceptable I can't accept statements like this, couw! I think I'll delete my message... on the Rat front: some days ago I made a dub of an FMP LP by Brötzmann titled Elements (1971). Fiery stuff with some pretty moments. Features Mangelsdorff to make it more interesting. Anyone heard (of) that one? Opinions? Oh, wait, let me quote that before you can delete anything Dratz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) on the Rat front: some days ago I made a dub of an FMP LP by Brötzmann titled Elements (1971). Fiery stuff with some pretty moments. Features Mangelsdorff to make it more interesting. Anyone heard (of) that one? Opinions? Sounds nice. Hope it will get reissued by Atavistic one day. Talking about Mangelsdorff, I recently listened to his duo with Lee Konitz (on Enja) - surprisingly boring stuff. Mangelsdorff is mostly playing his multiphonic thing as accompanyment, and it is fun for first 30 seconds, butthen becomes a bit annoying since the expressive pallette is pretty limited. Konitz also does not seem to be too inspired by this, and produces some of his most dry playing I've heard. Are there any other duos of Konitz with trombone, btw? - this could be a beautiful combination. Edited July 16, 2004 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 "Elements" came out on a 2-CD FMP set a few years ago along with other performances from that concert, issued on other LPs as "Cousscouss de la Mauresque" and "The End". I think it's still in print. Moondoc: dig "We Don't", a duo with Denis Charles on Eremite. Eremite is not always together with their orders in my experience, nor Forced Exposure. I don't know what they're smoking in Cambridge, but it affects their reliability for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) "Elements" came out on a 2-CD FMP set a few years ago along with other performances from that concert, issued on other LPs as "Cousscouss de la Mauresque" and "The End". I think it's still in print. It is still in print! - http://free-music-production.de/fmpcds/efmpcd034-035.htm Edited July 16, 2004 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 that Elements is pretty cool stuff I tellya. on Mangelsdorff: his multiphonics can sound like a bit of a put on at times. I have been shied away from investing in this later stuff partly by that. OTOH, an album like Hot Hut (1985), with Elveeen Jones, presents some pretty great stuff, multiphonics and all. Also the MPS album with duo recordings is very nice as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Also the MPS album with duo recordings is very nice as I recall. Phenomenal, you mean It is highly recomemnded and should be avalabel for some negligeble amount of $ at amazon.de. As for Mangelsdorff and multiphonics, I remeer I was really looking forward to listenig to his solo record called Purity (on Mood records), only to discover that it was all multiphonics stuff - and really dull. Funny enough, multiphonics is porbably used to enrich the expressive means of trombone but instead it just limits them. On the other hand, Mangesdorff's duo with Wolfgang Dauner (also on Mood, I think it is called Two is a Company) is very nice as I remember - very warm, gentle and full of beautiful interplay. Time to listen to it again. How's Dauner's reissue on MPS, btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Listening to this one here for the second time: GREAT music to wake up to in the morning and get aggressive Seriously: it's 40 minutes, 30 of it solo drums, but of a musicality I rarely hear in drummers (well, frankly I've not been listening to drummers all that often, lately). One track features the (then? still now? don't know him!) Coltrane-clone David S. Ware on tenor. High energy playing at a good level, but not really necessary. Harris is doing it for me! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 One track features the (then? still now? don't know him!) Coltrane-clone David S. Ware on tenor. High energy playing at a good level, but not really necessary. David S. Ware is not a Coltrane clone anymore. I am not too familiar with his ouevre, but of what I have the one I like the most is Corridors and Parallels (AUM Fidelity). Very strong work IMO, with excellent writing, and very original synth playing by Matthew Shipp. Ware burns on it. --------------------------------------------- As for African Drums, I agre with your assessment - excellent work. Thinking about it, I also don't have too many solo drums records: a stunning one by Milford Graves on Tzadik (but, as I mentioned, in additon to stunning drumming, there is nearly constant ... hmmm...vocalizing... also stunning, in a way) and one by Han Bennink that I don't remember. And yeah, one by Fritz Hauser - "Solodrumming" (hat[now]ART) - also a good one, if very different from the ones mentioned above. That's about it. It's a shame Elvin never did a complete solo recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 One track features the (then? still now? don't know him!) Coltrane-clone David S. Ware on tenor. High energy playing at a good level, but not really necessary. David S. Ware is not a Coltrane clone anymore. I am not too familiar with his ouevre, but of what I have the one I like the most is Corridors and Parallels (AUM Fidelity). Very strong work IMO, with excellent writing, and very original synth playing by Matthew Shipp. Ware burns on it. Ain't Ware that one guy who was almost as successful with Free Jazz as Britney Spears? The one with that quartet with Shipp and Parker? Never really felt a need to check that out, but I may check that disc on AUM if I run accross it. Thanks! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 It's a shame Elvin never did a complete solo ecording. And yes! Based on that one solo number on the "Momentum Space" disc, an Elvin solo album would be a great thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Listening to this one again: Wittwer's duo collaboration with Michael Wertmüller (I think he got very positive mentions in the rat, some time ago - by D.D.? Not sure) can be heard on Werther/Wittwer, Grob204 (>Grob<). He seems to be very fond of this disc, too. I don't have it yet, but I intend to get it someday. I think I mentioned that I got the disc in the mean-time (well, a CDr, only), and it's friggin' great stuff! D.D. you ought to check this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Not sure they have not been discussed here (not enough time to go through the 160 pages of the Rat) but I just had my first encounter with Spring Heel Jack when I found a reviewer copy of 'The Sweetness of the Water' (Thirsty Ear) at a decent price. I was pleasantly surprised. Not really my type of jazz but it had lots of mindblowing music which is fine with me. The presence of Wadada Leo Smith and Evan Parker added to the interest. Any of the regulars here could recommend one or two more worthy albums from SHJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Listening to this one again: Wittwer's duo collaboration with Michael Wertmüller (I think he got very positive mentions in the rat, some time ago - by D.D.? Not sure) can be heard on Werther/Wittwer, Grob204 (>Grob<). He seems to be very fond of this disc, too. I don't have it yet, but I intend to get it someday. I think I mentioned that I got the disc in the mean-time (well, a CDr, only), and it's friggin' great stuff! D.D. you ought to check this out! From the Grob blurb: "he [Wittwer] has absorbed the lessons from Hardcore and Trash Metal and transferred them elegantly and without compromise into his own idiom". You know, I still have sentimental nostalgic Trash/Death Metal attachments, so there is no way I will want to miss this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 One more Globe Unity concert to be reissued on Atavistic: Globe Unity Orchestra: Hamburg '74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Not sure they have not been discussed here (not enough time to go through the 160 pages of the Rat) but I just had my first encounter with Spring Heel Jack when I found a reviewer copy of 'The Sweetness of the Water' (Thirsty Ear) at a decent price. I was pleasantly surprised. Not really my type of jazz but it had lots of mindblowing music which is fine with me. The presence of Wadada Leo Smith and Evan Parker added to the interest. Any of the regulars here could recommend one or two more worthy albums from SHJ? Guy, I only have one of Spring Heel Jack's discs, and got it without knowing them, rather accidentally, too. It's called "Amassed" and features E. Parker, Shipp, W. Parker, Kenny Wheeler, Paul Rutherford and a few others. I like it pretty much. Won't check AMG on it, as that site really sucks a the moment. Here is a short thread over on AAJ. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Listening to this one again: Wittwer's duo collaboration with Michael Wertmüller (I think he got very positive mentions in the rat, some time ago - by D.D.? Not sure) can be heard on Werther/Wittwer, Grob204 (>Grob<). He seems to be very fond of this disc, too. I don't have it yet, but I intend to get it someday. I think I mentioned that I got the disc in the mean-time (well, a CDr, only), and it's friggin' great stuff! D.D. you ought to check this out! From the Grob blurb: "he [Wittwer] has absorbed the lessons from Hardcore and Trash Metal and transferred them elegantly and without compromise into his own idiom". You know, I still have sentimental nostalgic Trash/Death Metal attachments, so there is no way I will want to miss this one. He also has a classical guitar education. Mentioned the "usual suspects" in the interview (Hendrix, mainly, as he was coming of age at the time of Hendrix's greatest success and musical achievements). Also told us a funny story about him and Elliot Sharp, but he can't relate to Sharp too much, musically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Any of the regulars here could recommend one or two more worthy albums from SHJ? brownie - I would second ubu's recommendation of Amassed. I have also heard that the live disc is fantastic, but I have yet to hear it. Also, just in case you didn't already know, SHJ's first few albums are all pretty much straight ahead techno, with none of the free-jazz crossover of Amassed or Sweetness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 great stuff! D.D. you ought to check this out! From the Grob blurb: "he [Wittwer] has absorbed the lessons from Hardcore and Trash Metal and transferred them elegantly and without compromise into his own idiom". You know, I still have sentimental nostalgic Trash/Death Metal attachments, so there is no way I will want to miss this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnhrtg Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 This might not be much help, but - Amassed and Masses are both good and different enough, I feel; so you might want to pick up first the one on which the line-up gets you more curious. I like Live as well but that consists of two lengthy pieces played by the same line-up so at least for variety's sake I'd say go with either of the above first. The live disc does have wonderful segments of great interplay and since the pieces are quite long there are more more opportunities for development and exploration of repetition and certain mellow segments. I haven't heard the latest but am happy with these three - and would have difficulty choosing any over the other two; but not sure if I want to get more either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.L.M Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) One track features the (then? still now? don't know him!) Coltrane-clone David S. Ware on tenor. High energy playing at a good level, but not really necessary. David S. Ware is not a Coltrane clone anymore. I am not too familiar with his ouevre, but of what I have the one I like the most is Corridors and Parallels (AUM Fidelity). Very strong work IMO, with excellent writing, and very original synth playing by Matthew Shipp. Ware burns on it. I don't understand how a free jazz or free impro lover can go on and ignore DAVID S WARE who was absolutely mind-blowing when playing with CECIL TAYLOR in the seventies. CORRIDORS AND PARALLELS is good stuff but the following titles are must to have: DAO (on SILKHEART with WHIT DICKEY on drums) GODSPELIZED (on DIW with SUSIE IBARRA on drums) WISDOM OF UNCERTAINTY (on AUM FIDELITY with SUZIE on drums) GO SEE THE WORLD (on COLUMBIA with SUZIE on drums and IMO his masterpiece so far) The drumming of SUSIE make all the difference with the good WARE's albums and the outstanding ones, has you have guess. I will add to that list his hommage to SONNY ROLLINS, FREEDOM SUITE (on AUM with GUILLERMO BROWN on drums) who is a beautifull piece of work. FYI on SURRENDERED (COLUMBIA with BROWN on drums), is sole, more or less, "straight" album to this date (and, for some, is weakest), he is doing a remake with the band of his duo with BEAVER HARRIS on AFRICAN DRUMS. Edited July 18, 2004 by P.L.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnhrtg Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Oh, yes Davis S. Ware - I just saw his quartet (Cleaver, Shipp, Parker) at the North Sea Jazz Festival and his own playing, less so the overall music, was very impressive, big tone, good control/technique, and big ears. I'd definitely see him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 This might not be much help, but - Amassed and Masses are both good and different enough, I feel; so you might want to pick up first the one on which the line-up gets you more curious. I like Live as well but that consists of two lengthy pieces played by the same line-up so at least for variety's sake I'd say go with either of the above first. The live disc does have wonderful segments of great interplay and since the pieces are quite long there are more more opportunities for development and exploration of repetition and certain mellow segments. I haven't heard the latest but am happy with these three - and would have difficulty choosing any over the other two; but not sure if I want to get more either. Thank you (and Ubu) for the Spring Heel Jack recommendations. Will be looking for the items listed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) Picked up two CDs of solo Sergei Kuriokhin performances - Liverpool and Dovecot (both on Solyd Records). Both are OK, but less interesting than Ways of Freedom (on Leo). Too much kitch, and you do get a bit tired of Kuriokhin's improvisational style, which is to take a theme or a motive (ususally something very cheesy ans silly) and drive it to total absurd by repetitions with varioations on breakneck speed (which is still pretty unbelievable to me - I can't understand how a human can physically bang ANY notes with this spead). You also undertand that Kureiokhin can not really maintain a continuity for 40+ minutes (this is what the concert is like - a continuous performance) - he just worked on something, then drops it all together when ou don't expect it and goes to something very different without too much of a logical connection to what's has been played before. I feel that the format of Ways of Freedom with relatively short composed pieces is mre suitable for Kuriokhin. At the same time, there are quite a few moments of brilliance, so I'll be coming to those back from time to time. And I will get Some Combination of Fingers and Passion as soon as Leo reissues it. I'll also probably pick up this one: Anatoly Vapirov "Forgotten Ritual" with Sergei Kuriokhin (also on Solyd) Vapirov is a fantastic saxophonist, and I am curious to hear mre of his collaboration with Kuriokhin who has pretty different style (there are a couple of short tracks on Leo Golden Years of Soviet Jazz Vol. 1 set, but I want MORE). Edited July 18, 2004 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Two new releases from RASTASCAN: Peter Kowald/Miya Masaoka/Gino Robair Illuminations (Several Views) Peter Kowald: contrabass Miya Masaoka: 17- and 21-string kotos Gino Robair: percussion, ebow snare, faux dax Illuminations features the late German bassist Peter Kowald in a series of trio improvisations with San Francisco-based musicians Miya Masaoka and Gino Robair. The session took place during Kowald's extended US tour in 2000, which is documented in the film Off the Road. In fact, the documentary includes scenes from the studio session that spawned this CD release. Recorded 26 April, 2000 by Myles Boisen at Guerrilla Recording. Cover art by Peter Kowald. John Butcher & Gino Robair New Oakland Burr John Butcher: soprano and tenor saxophones, amplified/feedback or acoustic. Gino Robair: ebow snare, cymbals, faux dax, motor, toy reed, styrofoam. Recorded 18 June and 26 November, 2001 by Myles Boisen at Guerrilla Recording. Cover image by Gino Robair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 (edited) BTW, new solo Brötzm. is phenomenal. I will elaborate later, but everybody here should do himself (or herself, he-he) a favor and get it. According to (good) Steve Lake's liner notes, this is the best of 5 (!) Brötzmann's solo CDs. Д.Д., any more comments on 14 Love Poems? Won't be able to add any more comments before I get home and re-listen to it which will happen in mid-August only. But trust me, this is good stuff. Probaly Gary could help a bit with reviewing this one before then. Edited July 19, 2004 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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