Funny Rat

[Nate Dorward]

I am not sure there should be any intention other than creating music (or inhumane soundscapes, if you wish). Does music necesserily has to convey human emotions? - I don't think so.

For me it does.

For me there are certainly particular albums or musical moments that convey specific emotions--say the extraordinary desolation & anger in Johnny Hodges' solo on "Bloodcount", or the radiant sense of the tragedy of ordinary lives in Iris DeMent's "No Time to Cry". I think the main thing to note about this is that it's very much the exception, not the rule--these are moments that stand out memorably rather than typify one's experience of music, even of good (great) music. Perhaps the problem in the formulation above is the word "convey", as if that were what music were about. If that were the case there would be little point in musical change or innovation: my intuition is that human emotional life is not something that changes nearly as rapidly as musical fashion. If the point of a love song were merely to convey love, then we'd all still be singing troubadour songs.

[Д.Д.]

Anyone feel that they own enough FMP titles to have an opinion as to the ratio of hits to misses?

I don't own a ton of FMPs but have or have heard maybe two dozen. There's a huge amount of good stuff on the label & now on the ancillary A|L|L, though I haven't had much luck lately with the review copies--I keep ending up with all-right-but-nothing-to-write-home-about discs like Fractured Dimensions or Tone.

¨Hmm, I thought Fractured Dimensions was an excellent CD. I am quite a fan of Silva's synth playing, Danile Carter plays beautifuly and even Roy Campbell, who I normally don't care too much about sounds interesting here. I will give it one more listen and will expand here.

I have about 20-30 FMP CDs, and in general the quality is very very high. I got many of them from themusicresource ($14.75 per CD).

[king ubu]

I don't have too many FMP discs, either, but here are a few that are most highly recommended (of course I have mentioned them here already):

A stunning solo performance of the grand old man, playing tenor, soprano, flute and piano in various sections.

A great post-Coltrane free trio date. Smokin'! Read the Penguin for a rather enthusiast review.

- this one's to blame for one of the most moving and extreme musical experiences that happened to me, lately.

Others I have:

- Schlippenbach/Murray, Smoke

- Lacy, Five Facings,

- CT, In East-Berlin

and some more.

ubu

[Д.Д.]

OK, I'll follow up on ubu's example and recommend some of the FMPs I have (skipping Brötzmann and Cecil):

Lacy-Evan Parker-Kowald-Wheeler-Mangelsdorff-Rutherford-Lovens-von Schlippenbach. Mighty! Blowing! Free!!!

This is the only Globe Unity CD I have (and there are quite a few), so I can't comment on how itcompares ot other ones.

Master bassist brings out the best in his partners here. There is also a second volume, also highly recommended.

von Schlippenbach-Evan Parker-Paul Lovens. Yes! Yes! Yes!

I am not too sure about Charles Gayle's "Touchin' on Trane". It's good (and it's always a pleasure to hear Ali), but I don't think Gayle is that interesting here. Probably my perception of this disc was jaded due to the fact that I listend to it both times back-to-back with Ivo Perelman's Trio "The Eye Listens" (Boxholder), which is a much more dynamic record, with a more versatile bassist (Wilber Morris)...

Edited May 29, 2004 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Funny Rat?  Of the Brotz I've heard, it would not be a first choice.  Problem?  Hano.  Sounds like the guys are having fun, but too often you get the idea that Brotzmann is having to play to the level of Hano - that not being a good thing.  The best way I could describe it is that he seems completely lost in this battle: plays clumsy heavy out-of-context drunken-one-handed-Sunny-Murray thing.  (Hmmm... that sounds familiar.    DAMMIT!  Wish I had said that first!)

Much better to first get any one of the many other Brotzmann CDs recently mentioned in this thread.

Gary, in the light of Tony's and my observations, if you are interested in Brötzmann-drummer duets, you will probably be better off starting elsewhere - with Dried Rat Dog (Okka) with Hamid Drake, for example (even though I haven't heard it, I suspect it is not bad ).

Are there any other Brötzmann-drummer duos on CD, btw?

Edited May 29, 2004 by Д.Д.

[king ubu]

Funny Rat?  Of the Brotz I've heard, it would not be a first choice.  Problem?  Hano.  Sounds like the guys are having fun, but too often you get the idea that Brotzmann is having to play to the level of Hano - that not being a good thing.  The best way I could describe it is that he seems completely lost in this battle: plays clumsy heavy out-of-context drunken-one-handed-Sunny-Murray thing.  (Hmmm... that sounds familiar.      DAMMIT!  Wish I had said that first!)

Much better to first get any one of the many other Brotzmann CDs recently mentioned in this thread.

Gary, in the light of Tony's and my observations, if you are interested in Brötzmann-drummer duets, you will probably be better off starting elsewhere - with Dried Rat Dog (Okka) with Hamid Drake, for example (even though I haven't heard it, I suspect it is not bad ).

Are there any other Brötzmann-drummer duos on CD, btw?

What not bad! Great it is!

ubu

[king ubu]

And do you mean you have not "rat" at all? While I don't have the funny one, I at least have the dried doggy one! You should change that, my friend!

ubu

[Д.Д.]

And do you mean you have not "rat" at all? While I don't have the funny one, I at least have the dried doggy one! You should change that, my friend!

ubu

Yeah, I'll get it pronto.It is one of the early Okka releases, so it's probably better not to wait for too long...

[Д.Д.]

Talking about Clark Terry, hope everybody here heard his unbelievable (albeit short) playing on Ed Thigpen's "Out in (of?) the Storm" (Verve)?

A GREAT record! Can't say enough good things about that one! Everybody's at the top of their game. And dig "Struttin' With Some Barbecue" - that version still could teach Wynton some lessons!

ubu

And I remember the liner notes saying they recorded more stuff during this session (including Hancock's "Maiden Voyage")...

I'm not sure - though it would be lost if it's not on the VEE disc, as the VEEs did include extra material when available - sad!

ubu

Form the booklet

Ed Thigpen: "We did "Maiden Voyage", and we really caught everythig on it. We didn't use it because Creed was into movie themems, at that time... THere wasn't room on the LP for everythig that we did.

Sidenote: "Maiden Voyage", "Gingerbread Boy", and "Bring It on Home to Me" were all recorded at the Out of the Storm sessions and not released. These recordings have not survived in the PolyGram tape library.

Nice.

[Gary]

And do you mean you have not "rat" at all? While I don't have the funny one, I at least have the dried doggy one! You should change that, my friend!

ubu 

Yeah, I'll get it pronto.It is one of the early Okka releases, so it's probably better not to wait for too long...

Ive gone decided to go down the dried road rather than the funny one after reading the last few posts.

I'm listening to

at the moment & hoping that 2001 have some more going OOP hats going dirt cheap soon.

[Nate Dorward]

Hmm, I thought Fractured Dimensions was an excellent CD. I am quite a fan of Silva's synth playing, Danile Carter plays beautifuly and even Roy Campbell, who I normally don't care too much about sounds interesting here. I will give it one more listen and will expand here.

I have about 20-30 FMP CDs, and in general the quality is very very high. I got many of them from themusicresource ($14.75 per CD).

It's an interesting disc--I liked Silva's work, found the other three rather duller. It's got nice moments--the opening of "Acrosses Rain" for instance--but some of the tracks do meander & then sputter out at length. Here, I'll toss in the writeup I did.

William Parker

Fractured Dimensions

Figures Standing in the Door / Eternal Flower / End of Famina / Vermeer / Acrosses Rain / Sonnet for Armstrong (78:03)

Parker, b; Roy Campbell, tpt, flgh; Daniel Carter, flt, cl, as, ts, tpt; Alan Silva, synth, p. Berlin, 7 Nov 1999.

FMP’s release schedule doggedly continues to play catch up with the late-1990s editions of the label’s flagship festival, the Total Music Meeting. The New York ensemble Other Dimensions in Music was scheduled to play the 1999 event; when drummer Rashied Bakr couldn’t make it, the quartet was filled out for the occasion by Alan Silva, playing synthesizer and piano. The concert has now been released under the logical but evocative title Fractured Dimensions.

It is in many ways a curiously off-balance encounter. Parker, Campbell and Carter seem inclined to brood on this occasion: the four long improvisations (the first subdivided into three shorter tracks) all mine a similar vein of fragile, drifting melancholy. Much of the album’s interest lies in Silva’s unpredictable and varied responses to the prevailing mood. On synth he scribbles all over the music with hysterical everywhichway synth-strings, or launches clattering fusillades of tympani. On piano he is sometimes similarly active; just as often, though, he confines himself to doomy tolling-bell chords. The clashes of instrumental colour between Silva and the rump of Other Dimensions are intriguing and often invigorating, although the disc’s most successful episode is the start of “Acrosses Rain,” where there is a closer and subtler timbral blend – flute, muted trumpet, bowed bass, piano and jangling flashes of synth.

Like most 78-minute albums, this one has its dead spots. Despite its promising opening and some strong episodes, “Acrosses Rain”, simply runs out of gas before it reaches its end (a full 34 minutes later). Carter also robs the music of some much-needed colour by performing on trumpet for most of that track and for most of the 16-minute closer “Sonnet for Armstrong.” On “Sonnet” Silva plays with incredible fury, as if to compensate, but the piece’s coda is again too long and drawn-out.

Fractured Dimensions is an “interesting” rather than entirely successful record. That said, fans of Other Dimensions in Music or (especially) of Silva will find it a fascinating document.

Touching on Trane is the best Gayle I've heard--great disc.

[Д.Д.]

By the way: you should be grounded until you've listened to the Lyons Box. In a way, I envy anyone who owns this set but has yet to listen to it. WONDERS AWAIT! (Like you didn't already know that.)

Well, I listened to first dic today, and I am confused - I didn't like it at all... And I was listening quite attentively.

I have a big problem with Raphe Malik (here in particular, since his solos are endless) - I find his sound to be absolutely "flat" and somehow I am very annoyed by the fact that he can't play long notes (and when he does they (notes) sound "shaky"). I never really thought about long note issue before, but here I just absolutely clearly felt that some of the notes should be played longer - otherwise it all gets jammed...

Lyons is better, but also nothing outstanding or particularly original here (sorry).

Drummer is good, but lacks variety, IMO.

Compositions are typical early free pieces (Ornette, etc.)....

I'll listen to it again some day...

[Д.Д.]

Touching on Trane is the best Gayle I've heard--great disc.

the one I liked the most (although I haven't heard them all) is his solo Unto I Am (on Victo).

[Matthew]

By the way:  you should be grounded until you've listened to the Lyons Box.  In a way, I envy anyone who owns this set but has yet to listen to it.  WONDERS AWAIT!  (Like you didn't already know that.)

Well, I listened to first dic today, and I am confused - I didn't like it at all... And I was listening quite attentively.

I have a big problem with Raphe Malik (here in particular, since his solos are endless) - I find his sound to be absolutely "flat" and somehow I am very annoyed by the fact that he can't play long notes (and when he does they (notes) sound "shaky"). I never really thought about long note issue before, but here I just absolutely clearly felt that some of the notes should be played longer - otherwise it all gets jammed...

Lyons is better, but also nothing outstanding or particularly original here (sorry).

Drummer is good, but lacks variety, IMO.

Compositions are typical early free pieces (Ornette, etc.)....

I'll listen to it again some day...

I agree with you on disk one of the Lyons box. I found it dull, with too much Malik, and not enough of Lyons. The set really picks up on the rest of the disks -- I find myself returning to the solo session and the cuts with Karen Borca, who is great.

[J.A.W.]

I have a big problem with Raphe Malik (here in particular, since his solos are endless) - I find his sound to be absolutely "flat" and somehow I am very annoyed by the fact that he can't play long notes (and when he does they (notes) sound "shaky"). I never really thought about long note issue before, but here I just absolutely clearly felt that some of the notes should be played longer - otherwise it all gets jammed...

Funny you should say that, I've also "developed" a big problem with Malik; I didn't like his playing very much at first, but it got worse: I can't listen to him anymore... I'll listen to the set again soon.

[Gary]

At first I thought Malik a little too overpowering but with repeated listens I really enjoy CD 1.

[Guest Chaney]

OH! If only a better drummer had been on hand that night in September! Smart - on the more energetic numbers - is a basher and little more. At times, it doesn't sound so much as if he's playing the drums as stumbling over them. Not the most imaginative performer this type of jazz has known. CD1 would have been much better if Smart were not present. (Admission: the preceeding contains hyperbole.)

I've not heard much of Malik so my opinion isn't worth a great deal but, to my ears, I find his playing a bit too brash. (Not getting that long note deal David mentions. I'll have to listen more closely next time.) There's also just too much Malik on this first disk. Endless solos? YEPPER! I just get the sense that Malik is into overpowering Lyons and Jimmy is all too willing to let it happen - at least on this particular date. (It was said of Lyons that he didn't possess the strongest of personalties.)

Possibly another factor for Jimmy's generosity? From the liner notes: It was the New York debut of a Lyons-led group, and in fact his first appearance in public anywhere as a leader playing his own music.... Here too is the first or second published recording of each of the sidemen.

I like the tunes a great deal. There's energy to spare. (Matthew: Dull? Not getting that.)

While it's not perfect (not that is should be expected to be), I still love it.

Edited May 29, 2004 by Chaney

[J.A.W.]

I've listened to another Jimmy Lyons album tonight, but not very attentively due to circumstances beyond my control:

Wee Sneezawee (Black Saint), with Raphe Malik, Karen Borca, William Parker and Paul Murphy.

I couldn't stand Malik (no news here), but I loved Borca's playing. Lyons sounded pretty convincing, but again, I wasn't able to listen very attentively. Will have to spin it again.

Edited May 29, 2004 by J.A.W.

[Gary]

I like the tunes a great deal. There's energy to spare. (Matthew: Dull? Not getting that.)

While it's not perfect (not that is should be expected to be), I still love it.

Thats exactly how i hear it. Nice one Chaney.

[Nate Dorward]

Malik is virtuosity & taste itself on the Lyons set compared to when I saw him a few years back, where he blew the trumpet like a very loud kazoo.

[Guest Chaney]

NATE! You're brutal!

PS: Thanks guys for the FMP recommendations!

ON THE EDIT:

Edited May 30, 2004 by Chaney

[Д.Д.]

I've listened to another Jimmy Lyons album tonight, but not very attentively due to circumstances beyond my control:

Wee Sneezawee (Black Saint), with Raphe Malik, Karen Borca, William Parker and Paul Murphy.

I couldn't stand Malik (no news here), but I loved Borca's playing. Lyons sounded pretty convincing, but again, I wasn't able to listen very attentively. Will have to spin it again.

Hans, "the Malik problem" can be solved pretty easily: get Give It Up (also on Black Saint). This one has Enrico Rava on trumpet!

I actually remember there was a Malik CD I did like - I forgot what it is called; it consists mostly of ballads... I think it's on Mapleshade lable... I'll look for it...

Edited May 30, 2004 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Anybody knows tis one by chance:

Dave Holland / Barre Phillips "Music from Two Basses" (ECM, 1971).

I see it's just been reissued on CD in Japan (with corresponding price). Barre Phillips is one of my favorite bassists (his solo CD Camouflage (Victo) is my favorite solo bass record... Dave Holland is no slouch either... but the price...

[Nate Dorward]

Well, actually it was a backhanded way of saying that while I don't think Malik's very good, I don't mind his work on the Lyons set, disc 1. I'm even OK with the drummer--hey, I like thrashing sometimes. What's most disappointing is that the two portions of the tape that are missing are bits of Lyons' solos. "Gossip" only has a brief fragment of Lyons' solo & then the rest is an enormously long Malik solo. & while the version of "Round Midnight" is kinda interesting, much of Lyons' statement of the head is lost, & then the rest is largely the other musicians. So two of the six tracks do have serious flaws.

But I'm still glad I have the set & wouldn't complain too much. Actually I was surprised how good it sounded by & large considering these weren't tapes made with commercial release in mind. Only the last disc is in bad sound.

[Д.Д.]

Tony, have you listened to the lIMItEd SEdItION stuff? I just litened to the CD (CD-R, to be exact) optimistically called Spotted Dick, and I think it's pretty amazing.

John Shiurba: guitar

Scott Rosenberg: winds

Gino Robair: non-perishables (percussion, actually)

Morgan Guberman: contrabass

Now, I am not sure I can even try to describe what it sounds like... Insane, would probably be a right word. I will make an attempt later. The site has some samples.

And yeah, this is a limited edition of 96 copies...

Edited May 30, 2004 by Д.Д.