Art Pepper - Complete Village Vanguard Sessions

[mikelz777]

If you haven't already taken advantage of the great deals that have been available on this set in the past, Secondspin.com is practically giving them away right now. Good until 3/19 if you use the code SSBIGMARCH you get 20% off plus free shipping. With taxes added, I got this 9-CD set for $12.53 delivered!! ($1.39 per disc.) I had the individual discs and wasn't particularly looking to get it but at this price, I couldn't pass it up.

Edited March 12, 2009 by mikelz777

[Matthew]

Thanks for the heads-up, I just placed my order.

[greggery peccary]

If you haven't already taken advantage of the great deals that have been available on this set in the past, Secondspin.com is practically giving them away right now. Good until 3/19 if you use the code SSBIGMARCH you get 20% off plus free shipping. With taxes added, I got this 9-CD set for $12.53 delivered!! ($1.39 per disc.) I had the individual discs and wasn't particularly looking to get it but at this price, I couldn't pass it up.

you did better than i did....mine was $12.56!

a bargain at any rate. it showed that there were 9 copies available as i placed my order. i suppose that you can make it 8.

[aparxa]

$11.74

[aparxa]

And thanks mike

[John Tapscott]

$11.74

Yes, mine too, and free international shipping to boot. Almost too good to be true.

Thanks

[sal]

$12.68. Wow!!!!! Thanks so much mikelz777!!!!!!

[micha]

This is one I enjoy very much and I remember it took me quite a while to find one under $90 just a couple years back.

And, as a heads up, they also have Joe Henderson's similarly sized Milestone Recordings set for about the same price.

[Big Wheel]

Are these new or used?

[mikelz777]

Are these new or used?

They would be used. I've made several purchases with Secondspin.com over the years and I've never been disappointed with any of their used discs.

[sal]

Used. but 100% guaranteed.

Edited March 13, 2009 by sal

[mikeweil]

Their server seems to be painfully slow - anyone else here experiencing this problem?

[AllenLowe]

y

e

s

[PHILLYQ]

$12.72- Many thanks, Mike! I've wanted to get some Pepper for awhile and now I can dive in!!

[fasstrack]

I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper. I liked, even loved his earlier stuff. I'm almost tempted to say I liked his self-justifying, self-deluding----but often profoundly moving auto-bio more. I think he sort of went off the deep end musically after he got obsessed with Trane and never fully got back on track, though he still played really well. You could hear pain, torment, anger. It was honest and real. Maybe some of it was great, but there was a lightness, such an easy swing on his first things that just, to me, blow this stuff away. I've heard some of this live stuff, and he's so cacked out making the announcements it's a miracle he could play at all. It's disturbing to hear: playing, patter, everything. It's hard to hear someone that talented flush it down the toilet and abuse themself like this.

To be honest, I think he never reached his phenomenal potential, perhaps b/c of the drugs and the hard road he trod. Even earlier on it seemed like he never finished his ideas, like a musical tease. He's a strange one. Great talent, swung his ass off, great sound, also a MF tenor and clarinet player. Just a natural that should've hit them over the fences---------but reading his book to hear him tell it he was a giant or something. Sorry: no cigar there, except for his monumental ego.

Just my opinion, and I really like Art Pepper. I don't want to start a war here, please.

[John L]

Interesting thoughts. You are not alone in your preferences. Many people prefer the earlier Pepper. I am a bit more unusual, in that my favorite Pepper is probably from exactly around the time of this Village Vanguard Box, when he was still showing the direct new inspiration from Coltrane (which I don't find to be a downside as many people do). I like the later recordings as well, although some of them sound to me to be to be a bit more deliberately mannered, as if preprogrammed for deep emotional content.

[mikelz777]

I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper. I liked, even loved his earlier stuff. I'm almost tempted to say I liked his self-justifying, self-deluding----but often profoundly moving auto-bio more. I think he sort of went off the deep end musically after he got obsessed with Trane and never fully got back on track, though he still played really well. You could hear pain, torment, anger. It was honest and real. Maybe some of it was great, but there was a lightness, such an easy swing on his first things that just, to me, blow this stuff away. I've heard some of this live stuff, and he's so cacked out making the announcements it's a miracle he could play at all. It's disturbing to hear: playing, patter, everything. It's hard to hear someone that talented flush it down the toilet and abuse themself like this.

To be honest, I think he never reached his phenomenal potential, perhaps b/c of the drugs and the hard road he trod. Even earlier on it seemed like he never finished his ideas, like a musical tease. He's a strange one. Great talent, swung his ass off, great sound, also a MF tenor and clarinet player. Just a natural that should've hit them over the fences---------but reading his book to hear him tell it he was a giant or something. Sorry: no cigar there, except for his monumental ego.

Just my opinion, and I really like Art Pepper. I don't want to start a war here, please.

I can't say that I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper (I think he was one of the greatest alto players of all time.) but I used to feel the same way that you do about his music. I very much preferred his earlier work and didn't like it when his work started to reflect a Coltrane-like influence. In fact, I used to own the Complete Village Vanguard Sessions box years ago when I found it for around $95.00. My ear wasn't ready for his sound at that time and I ended up selling the set after owning it less than a month just to get my money back. Flash forward several years and my ear had changed enough to where I came to really appreciate and enjoy his playing from the later part of his career. Now I've come full circle and I'm re-buying the box set (at an astoundingly better price) to complete the Pepper box trio of the Galaxy Recordings, the Hollywood All-star Sessions and the Village Vanguard Sessions. (Wow! 30 discs between the 3 sets which will put me at a total of 51 Pepper discs.) I don't see the evolution or change in his sound as a bad or lesser thing compared to his earlier work, it's just different. I don’t think he ever went off the deep end musically or that he needed to get back on track. He was just moving on a different track. Both periods of his career are enjoyable but it doesn't have to be at the expense of the other.

I don’t agree with nor do I think it’s fair to say that he didn’t reach his potential. I might agree if he had a very uneven career musically where his talent would shine here and there on occasion but his body of work was routinely very good to excellent. I don’t think that we could necessarily conclude that his music would have been exponentially better had he not been on drugs or had an easier life. Those things just as likely could have been some of the very things that fueled his excellence. Granted, some of his stage patter in the VV set tends to make him look like a bit of an ass and some of it can be a bit hard to listen to but it’s honest and real and it lends itself to a warts-and-all portrait of the man. I can see how it would turn many people off but I appreciate the fuller picture and for me, it doesn’t detract from the music at all. Oddly enough, it almost kind of enhances it knowing he could be such a strong player despite his bad habits. (Maybe it's just me.)

It looks like I came away with a different impression than yours regarding Pepper’s biography, “Straight Life”. It’s been a long time since I read it but “self-justifying” and “self-deluding” weren’t adjectives that came to my mind. He was a junkie and his biography was brutally honest and certainly didn’t pull any punches even when it reflected very badly on Art himself which was quite often. That might even give more credence to Art's self-perception. You don’t seem to agree with Art’s assertion that he was a genius on the alto sax. It’s certainly a bold statement but was it just unsupported braggadocio or was it a statement of confidence? Who, during Art’s career, was a better alto player? What alto player, during Art’s career, had equally consistent excellence shown in their body of work? And now in hindsight, how does Art’s body of work compare with those who are now considered to be the all-time great alto players in the history of jazz? I would consider his body of work to stand up equally, if not better than the generally recognized all-time alto greats. His assertion that he was a genius or a giant might easily lead one to conclude that he had a monumental ego but I think it would be much closer to being a statement of recognition than one of being self-justifying or self-delusional. All of this, of course, is just my opinion.

I really like Art Pepper as well. Can you tell?

Peace.

Edited March 13, 2009 by mikelz777

[RDK]

Looks like the Joe Henderson box is also available for about the same price and Bill Evans' Secret Sessions is around $25.

[JohnJ]

Thanks for the heads up!

Have the Art Pepper box but just bought the Joe Henderson Milestone and Debut Records Story boxes for a grand total of $21.88 delivered to Japan. The free shipping is just icing on the cake!

[poetrylover3]

If you haven't already taken advantage of the great deals that have been available on this set in the past, Secondspin.com is practically giving them away right now. Good until 3/19 if you use the code SSBIGMARCH you get 20% off plus free shipping. With taxes added, I got this 9-CD set for $12.53 delivered!! ($1.39 per disc.) I had the individual discs and wasn't particularly looking to get it but at this price, I couldn't pass it up.

Thanks Mike. I ordered mine this A.M. and it still showed 9 left. Hope I wasn't too late.

[jazzbo]

Great deals! I think there's a chance these are new, deleted items, rather than used.

I'm not the world's largest Pepper fan. I really see the word "genius" tossed around a lot, and I think there are a lot fewer geniuses in jazz than claimed. Charlie Parker: genius. Art Pepper? I don't think so. Plus in my personal life I've actually met a few people who claim they're geniuses. . . but I don't think they are!

I too find myself reaching for early Pepper more frequently, but I like the later Pepper too. It's just as fasstrack seems to feel as well: the early Pepper is more fun, less . . . well I won't say mannered, there's something about the later work that doesn't ring as true to me. Ah well, that's okay. Fine fine work for the most part (and I've heard a few unofficial things that really are awesome).

I still find things to really enjoy in the later Pepper and still grab and listen. Still, did he move the whole genre forward? Did he introduce radical new concepts? That would signal genius to me, but I don't see the signals. . . .

[Cliff Englewood]

I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper. I liked, even loved his earlier stuff. I'm almost tempted to say I liked his self-justifying, self-deluding----but often profoundly moving auto-bio more. I think he sort of went off the deep end musically after he got obsessed with Trane and never fully got back on track, though he still played really well. You could hear pain, torment, anger. It was honest and real. Maybe some of it was great, but there was a lightness, such an easy swing on his first things that just, to me, blow this stuff away. I've heard some of this live stuff, and he's so cacked out making the announcements it's a miracle he could play at all. It's disturbing to hear: playing, patter, everything. It's hard to hear someone that talented flush it down the toilet and abuse themself like this.

To be honest, I think he never reached his phenomenal potential, perhaps b/c of the drugs and the hard road he trod. Even earlier on it seemed like he never finished his ideas, like a musical tease. He's a strange one. Great talent, swung his ass off, great sound, also a MF tenor and clarinet player. Just a natural that should've hit them over the fences---------but reading his book to hear him tell it he was a giant or something. Sorry: no cigar there, except for his monumental ego.

Just my opinion, and I really like Art Pepper. I don't want to start a war here, please.

I can't say that I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper (I think he was one of the greatest alto players of all time.) but I used to feel the same way that you do about his music. I very much preferred his earlier work and didn't like it when his work started to reflect a Coltrane-like influence. In fact, I used to own the Complete Village Vanguard Sessions box years ago when I found it for around $95.00. My ear wasn't ready for his sound at that time and I ended up selling the set after owning it less than a month just to get my money back. Flash forward several years and my ear had changed enough to where I came to really appreciate and enjoy his playing from the later part of his career. Now I've come full circle and I'm re-buying the box set (at an astoundingly better price) to complete the Pepper box trio of the Galaxy Recordings, the Hollywood All-star Sessions and the Village Vanguard Sessions. (Wow! 30 discs between the 3 sets which will put me at a total of 51 Pepper discs.) I don't see the evolution or change in his sound as a bad or lesser thing compared to his earlier work, it's just different. I don’t think he ever went off the deep end musically or that he needed to get back on track. He was just moving on a different track. Both periods of his career are enjoyable but it doesn't have to be at the expense of the other.

I don’t agree with nor do I think it’s fair to say that he didn’t reach his potential. I might agree if he had a very uneven career musically where his talent would shine here and there on occasion but his body of work was routinely very good to excellent. I don’t think that we could necessarily conclude that his music would have been exponentially better had he not been on drugs or had an easier life. Those things just as likely could have been some of the very things that fueled his excellence. Granted, some of his stage patter in the VV set tends to make him look like a bit of an ass and some of it can be a bit hard to listen to but it’s honest and real and it lends itself to a warts-and-all portrait of the man. I can see how it would turn many people off but I appreciate the fuller picture and for me, it doesn’t detract from the music at all. Oddly enough, it almost kind of enhances it knowing he could be such a strong player despite his bad habits. (Maybe it's just me.)

It looks like I came away with a different impression than yours regarding Pepper’s biography, “Straight Life”. It’s been a long time since I read it but “self-justifying” and “self-deluding” weren’t adjectives that came to my mind. He was a junkie and his biography was brutally honest and certainly didn’t pull any punches even when it reflected very badly on Art himself which was quite often. That might even give more credence to Art's self-perception. You don’t seem to agree with Art’s assertion that he was a genius on the alto sax. It’s certainly a bold statement but was it just unsupported braggadocio or was it a statement of confidence? Who, during Art’s career, was a better alto player? What alto player, during Art’s career, had equally consistent excellence shown in their body of work? And now in hindsight, how does Art’s body of work compare with those who are now considered to be the all-time great alto players in the history of jazz? I would consider his body of work to stand up equally, if not better than the generally recognized all-time alto greats. His assertion that he was a genius or a giant might easily lead one to conclude that he had a monumental ego but I think it would be much closer to being a statement of recognition than one of being self-justifying or self-delusional. All of this, of course, is just my opinion.

I really like Art Pepper as well. Can you tell?

Peace.

Nice post Mike. I have always felt that one of the main reasons Pepper is not held in higher regard is the simple fact that he was white. Perhaps it's a bit of an over simplification but when you consider how someone like Dexter Gordon, whose playing I love and whose lifestyle and "dues paid" were similar, is remembered, it does seem that Pepper gets a bit of a rough ride in "Jazz History" terms, although a lot of that was his own fault.

Also, I think using the word genius to describe any musician is kind of ridiculous, I'd save it for whoever invented the wheel, however I don't think you have to move a genre or style forward to be considered a giant. The simple fact is, whether you enjoy his playing or not, no one played like Pepper, during any period, he was unique in the true sense of the word.

I also really like Art Pepper. Can you tell?

[mikelz777]

If you haven't already taken advantage of the great deals that have been available on this set in the past, Secondspin.com is practically giving them away right now. Good until 3/19 if you use the code SSBIGMARCH you get 20% off plus free shipping. With taxes added, I got this 9-CD set for $12.53 delivered!! ($1.39 per disc.) I had the individual discs and wasn't particularly looking to get it but at this price, I couldn't pass it up.

Thanks Mike. I ordered mine this A.M. and it still showed 9 left. Hope I wasn't too late.

I just checked, out of curiosity, and see that the site still shows 9 copies available. I was kind of surprised because I didn't see the counter go down even after I and several others posting here purchased a copy. Maybe the site is set up so the counter tops out at 9 even if they have 10-20-30 copies and that the counter doesn't go down until their literal inventory falls below 9. I don't know, I'm just speculating.

[mtodde]

I got it for $14.68...still a great deal. Thanks for the thread.

[mikeweil]

This time I got though the whole procedure much faster - after using the promotional code I paid $ 11.74 incl. shipping to Germany!

Edited March 13, 2009 by mikeweil