Grant Green later years

[jostber]

I love Grant Green's music, and have several of his early Blue Notes, but not any of his stuff from the funk/second period from '65 and onwards to '79. The only record I got from that period is the compilation "Green Peace", which I think is mighty hot with only great songs. Several of his funky records, e.g. "Carryin' On", and other from this time has more recently been used by samplers on their material taking licks from Green's songs. That making Green some kind of cult idol in their circles.

On the other hand, some folks shortshrifts most of his funk years, except the live stuff. One example is the Penguin Jazz Guide, who gives low score for "Carryin' On", "Green Is Beautiful" and others. But I would like know, what is the truth here? MG?

Edited March 7, 2009 by jostber

[Ragu]

On the other hand, some folks shortshrifts most of his funk years, except the live stuff. One example is the Penguin Jazz Guide, who gives low score for "Carryin' On", "Green Is Beautiful" and others. But I would like know, what is the truth here? MG?

I don't think everything he did especially towards the very end were that good. but Carryin' On and Green Is Beautiful are great records, solid grooves and playing...unless you only like to hear soloing over a hard bop rhythm section. There is much to appreciate on those records.

[ghost of miles]

Jostber, you can check out some of Green's 1969-71 music on the Night Lights show Ain't He Funky Now.

[WorldB3]

A good starting point for the later years would be the compilation "The Original Jam Master Ain't It Funky Now Vol 1". People can rip on the album Carryin On all they want but you won't find a better solo then the one on Ease Back or a better grove than I Don't Want Nobody to Give Me Nothing which are both on the comp along with a great live version of Its Your Thing.

The problem with the later stuff isn't so much Grant but the band and the tunes were not up to the earlier stuff.

However when Grant is soloing over a Idris Muhammad drum beat like on the live album "Live at Club Mozambique" all is right in my world. The organist Ronnie Foster is pretty good on that one also.

[danasgoodstuff]

He and Idris had a thang goin' on, so all of those, whether studio or live, are fine, as is Live at the Lighthouse as well. After BN you can safely skip. Also his sideman work with Rueben Wilson on BN and Houston Person, Charles Kynard, etc. is worthwhile. If you want a nice transitional album, the one with Don Patterson and Sonny Stitt is poised about halfway across the great divide, IMHO. For me '65 is not the cutoff, '66 is still 'early' as is Iron city, regardless of when it was actually recorded or who really plays on it - I mean they all really play, but who is it?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

If I somehow get in to heaven and god asks me, Chewy, pick a year you want to return to earth and see grant green live in concert, i will exclaim without hesistation: 1971!

Edited March 8, 2009 by chewy

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

btw if youve never seen THE FINAL COMEDOWN: do see it: you can find it at the chineese drugstore beacuse its copyright accidently ran out and they like sell them at the .99 cent store for 1.99 a piece....///

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

dont listen to em; later grant green is the grand culmination of all preivous great years of grant green history: the end was like a giant blue-note sponsored party-- george benson WISHES he got game as good as brother Grant///

1) get the LIVE stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Monambique, Alive, Lighthouse....get em get em get em these are like, his 70s blue note "king" period

2) get VISONS and SHADES OF GREEN are clincally considered to be like his blue note "cti" period

3) GREEN IS BEAUTIFUL

4) See 1 again

5) Repeat #4

[JSngry]

I've no problem at all with any Grant Green on Blue Note.

[kh1958]

Live at the Lighthouse and Live at Club Mozambique are the two that I really like.

[Jazzjet]

He and Idris had a thang goin' on, so all of those, whether studio or live, are fine, as is Live at the Lighthouse as well. After BN you can safely skip. Also his sideman work with Rueben Wilson on BN and Houston Person, Charles Kynard, etc. is worthwhile. If you want a nice transitional album, the one with Don Patterson and Sonny Stitt is poised about halfway across the great divide, IMHO. For me '65 is not the cutoff, '66 is still 'early' as is Iron city, regardless of when it was actually recorded or who really plays on it - I mean they all really play, but who is it?

Totally agree about his sideman work. Houston Person's 'The Real Thing', recorded live at the Club Mozambique, is a special favourite.

[DMP]

Green "live" in this period was pretty exciting, and I'm not sure the albums that came out at the time really reflected what it was like to hear him in a club. The Lighthouse set probably comes closest. He appeared regularly here with his group (Claude Bartee was the constant) up in the Hill District in the early '70's, usually opening with "Ease Back."

[A Lark Ascending]

I am certified the world's least funky person; but I've come to really like this era. Started with three nice Blue Note compilations but am gradually putting the full LPs together via downloads.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

nice! did you see him, DMP?

[jostber]

Thanks for the recommendations! I will check out those live records.

[DMP]

Yes, saw him many times, beginning in the late '60's (with John Patton) until shortly before his death (with a pick-up group of local musicians, playing standards). It didn't seem like any big deal at the time - he was a regular at the local clubs in the Hill district of Pittsburgh (as was Freddie Hubbard, Jack McDuff, Horace Silver, Lou Donaldson, Groove Holmes, plenty more) - I was lucky enough to catch the tail end of the period when you could catch musicians of this calibre in a local bar. Think I mentioned once before how Green and Patton worked on "A Day In the Life" on their break, after someone played Wes Montgomery's version on the juke box. Looking back, it's hard to believe. Guess age has some advantages.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

oh yea that was you? totally remember that re: beatles

can you recall any other specific memories of your grant green expieerences, esp. about the times with Big John?

[DMP]

The main thing I remember was the grin on his face when he "comped" behind the other soloists; he seemed to really enjoy repeating those figures. (Most of the tunes were really one chord vamps, I guess.) When I heard him with Patton, they opened up with "The Yodel," recorded earlier on Patton's LP, and they played it at about half the speed of the recorded version - much "funkier." And, one night, the Claude Bartee group played a long version of Donald Byrd's "Fancy Free," which seemed like an off-the-wall selection (although it later showed up on the "Lighthouse" LP). The thing about seeing him - and the many others at the time - was that it wasn't any big thing, no special occasion - going to hear these musicians on a Wednesday night at a local bar was just almost a normal routine.

[ejp626]

The thing about seeing him - and the many others at the time - was that it wasn't any big thing, no special occasion - going to hear these musicians on a Wednesday night at a local bar was just almost a normal routine.

All I can add is Damn. Born at the wrong time. Now it is basically an event to go out and see jazz (a few exceptions such as the organ trios that have a weekly spot at the Green Mill for example). I don't even care that much about the inflated ticket prices, but the fact that today's musicians don't gig on a regular basis. I've been poking around on Greg Osby's and Vijay Iyer's websites, and they seem to average 2 or 3 shows a month over the whole year. I imagine they are doing other things and practicing, but really is there anyone that could doubt that without the intense gigging of yesteryear, today's musicians are just not going to be as good? Certainly the bands as units are not going to be as good. This seems to be precisely why jazz is basically on life support.

[jostber]

This seems to have been released by Indie Japan/Zoom recently:

How is this one?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

This seems to have been released by Indie Japan/Zoom recently:

How is this one?

It's nice; but it's not terribly... funky. And it's not terribly... hard boppish, either. It's one of my favourites (though it depends what I've played lately and I just got that CD, so I'm playing it more than usual).

There are really four late period GGs that many regard as suspect:

"Final comedown" (BN) though there are some nice things in it, too much film soundtrack stuff though;

"Shades of Green", (BN) which is OK, but the band was overdubbed later;

"The main attraction" (Kudu) which is not very good and the band and GG were overdubbed later; and

"Easy" (Versatile) which has some lovely playing from GG and Hank Crawford but the rest of the band are just a bit too easy listening. And some of the tunes are not up to the job. But GG's playing, if you ignore the rest, is some of his best.

All his other stuff on BN post '68 is terrific, as everyone else says.

As a sideman, "Soul brotherhood" by Charles Kynard is one of the best. Also Don Patterson's "Brothers four" and "Donnybrook" (released on CD under Stitt's name), and Reuben Wilson's "Love bug".

Houston Person's "Real thing" (not reissued on CD) is like the curate's egg. The GG stuff is fine but the material with Robert Ward I find less than wonderful. But there's one cut with Marcus Belgrave and Wild Bill Moore which is fantastic! Person's "Person to person" is good too, but not quite up to the mark of the other stuff.

I like Fats Theus' "Black out" (CTI) a lot too, but it's also not been issued on CD.

MG

[danasgoodstuff]

the band on Visions isn't much and the material is off the wall (pop pop and Mozart) but Grant's sound is just glowing, not sure if he'd switched ax or amp for that one or what...

[JSngry]

Visions had the hit, though. "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is". So think of it as Grant's equivalent of Wes' A Day In The Life (certainly a very "inflential" album in its own right, like it or not).

More or less.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

DONT LISTEN TO ANY OF EM JOSTBER LATER GRANT GREEN IS GREAT!!!!!!!!! let me break it down for u: this period, is when grant came into his own about changing it from a jazz concert, to a full on PARTY. if you were at Club Mozambique or the Caddilac Club where grant played many times, you werent watching george shearing at birdland snapping your fingers with your arm around your girl and stuff, you work ROCKIN OUT. ask anyone who saw grant green at this time and im sure they could tell you what it was like. any of you older cats here ever see the man in concert?

DEF GET ALL THOSE LATER PERIOD ALBUMS. JUST GET WHATEVER U CAN: VISIONS IS NOT THE EASYIST TO TRACK DOWN ALBUM AND EITHER GO FOR THE ORIGINAL OR WHATEVER REISSUE U CAN GET YR PAWS ON.

all dont let them slap u around about how his post BN 70s work like his last LP "easy" arent any good cause IT IS GOOD he even covered a WARREN ZEVON song on it! (Nightime in the switching yard). it warms my heart to know fuckin GRANT GREEN lived long enough to listen to EXCITABLE BOY all the way through. Hell yeah.

[jostber]

Thanks, MG and Chewy, I will check them out.