Dan Gould Posted October 14, 2003 Report Posted October 14, 2003 HUGE win at Fenway last night! And I like our chances today, with Lowe pitching on full rest in the park he performs very well at, and frankly, Wells is the least worrisome of the Yankee starters-he doesn't like Fenway, he doesn't generally pitch well in day games. I think if we win, we have to go with Burkett to start game 6, with Suppan on deck if Burkett has one of his patented bad innings. Game 7, Wakefield/Pedro or Pedro/Wakefield. Part of me thinks to ride Wake as far as he'll go. Every out he gets is one fewer Pedro has to get. But today is crucial. And why do the Yanks have home field advantage if we win today? I'd rather have to win one out of two, regardless of locale, than face elimination. Oh, and by the way, it seems that the Yanks have made a habit of losing series in which they've lost a one-run game. And what was the score last night? Go Cubs and Sox!!! Quote
jacman Posted October 14, 2003 Report Posted October 14, 2003 FWIW-Zimmer played with the Brooklyn Dodgers '54-57, LA Dodgers '58-59, Cubs '60-61, Mets/Reds '62, Dodgers/Senators '63, Senators '64-'65. Quote
ghost of miles Posted October 14, 2003 Report Posted October 14, 2003 (edited) Yanks are goin' back to the Bronx up 3-2! Man, I can't believe they took 2 of 3 from the Red Sox in Fenway. No guarantee they'll get the pennant, though--this has been a great series so far, and NY won the season series only 10-9, so I ain't countin' on nothin'. Interesting--NY's 7-0 in the playoffs when Mussina doesn't start, 0-3 when he does. He pitched a lot better last night than in his previous two outings, at least. C'mon, Cubs! Edited October 14, 2003 by ghost of miles Quote
BERIGAN Posted October 14, 2003 Report Posted October 14, 2003 Yanks are goin' back to the Bronx up 3-2! Man, I can't believe they took 2 of 3 from the Red Sox in Fenway. .... Yeah, what a shock, the team with 4 real starters, and a long time lights out closer is going to win what, their 47th pennant???? I bet you are shocked each time Bill Gates gains market share as well....and I bet you cheer that as well! Quote
doubleM Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Wow. That fan interference in the 8th was indeed unfortunante for the cubs. It must be a bitch to have to have someone step in and fuck things up when you're trying to do your job. Now an error by the cubs, a run... It's now tied. Damn glad I'm a Yankees fan. But, go Cubs! Quote
RonF Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Now the wheels have fallen off at Wrigley. Amazing! Quote
Big Al Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Eight runs in the eighth inning!!! I hope emergency personnel is on hand, in case that guy gets the SHIT KICKED OUTTA HIM for fucking up what would've been AN OUT!!!! Man, if I was Alou, during the pitching change, I woulda been raggin' on that shit-fer-brains 'til everyone else kicked his worthless ass outta the park!!! And for what?!? A souvenier (sp)?!?!? Something he can put on eBay? "Hi, I'm the dumbshit who interfered with Alou, fucked up a sure out, and opened the floodgates for the Fish to score a shitload o' runs. Y'wanna buy an Official Major League Playoff Baseball??" Maybe the ghosts of Harry and Brickhouse will haunt his dreams for the next 95 years!!! Of course, it didn't help that the Cubs bats in the last 2 games have been as limp as pre-Viagra Palmeiro; and then, to add insult to injury, they brought in that washout Farnsworth!!! Game 7 tomorrow night, and the young Texan gets to carry the weight of 58 years of World Series frustration on his shoulders. Good luck Kerry and GO CUBS!!! Quote
RonF Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 SHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote
Big Al Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 (edited) SHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (laughing thru my tears) Come to think of it, that avatar of mine is a pretty apt description of what I'm lookin' like right now!!! AAAUUUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!! Edited October 15, 2003 by Big Al Quote
Matthew Posted October 15, 2003 Author Report Posted October 15, 2003 And for what?!? A souvenier (sp)?!?!? Something he can put on eBay? "Hi, I'm the dumbshit who interfered with Alou, fucked up a sure out, and opened the floodgates for the Fish to score a shitload o' runs. Y'wanna buy an Official Major League Playoff Baseball??" Maybe the ghosts of Harry and Brickhouse will haunt his dreams for the next 95 years!!! Big Al: ROTFLMAO Man, Heaven help that guy when he shows up for work, though the picture of him is so clear, he should just GET OUT OF TOWN WHILE HE CAN! This guy will be in a living hell if the Cubs don't win tomorrow. What a clown, I mean, get out of the way! Quote
Sundog Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Let me just say that I feel like Charlie Brown right after Lucy pulls the football away! Drat! Quote
Brad Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 What a bunch of assholes. You know, there's a reason why the Cubs and the Red Sox suck and that's because they can't win the big one. You can blame it on fate, the black cat that crossed their path or whatever, but good teams put this behind them and move on and win. These two can't. Thanks you idiots, now I have to f**in watch the Yanks and the Fish. Guess I'm resigned to seeing that god damned parade down Broadway again. Quote
ghost of miles Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 No way would I count Boston out. As for the Cubs, they've still got home-field advantage, but tomorrow will be a real test of whether they can come back from a collapse like that. Linked from the Cubs fans' message board: Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Will the Sox and Cubs write another chapter in their respective Book of Misery? I don't think the Gould family could take it, but I'm not optimistic. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Linked from the Cubs fans' message board: Quote
Brad Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Trust me, if these two teams have the opportunity to screw up, they will. Instead of blaming it on the curse of this or that, these teams should look at themselves and say why is it that we can't win the big one when the Yankees can? They don't have the killer instinct. What else to explain what has happened to the Cubs now and 1984 or the Red Sox in 46, 75, 78, 86 and 03. When they had to get it, they couldn't it. We'll see tonight if we should lump the this year's version with those teams. Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 I don't believe in fate or destiny or any of that crap, Brad. The fact is, unless the Red Sox find a decent pitching staff, top-to-bottom but especially the starters, they will always fail against the Yankees. I mean, Contreras was going to be the #2 or #3 starter for us, and he's only being used in the 7th inning for the Yankees. We've got John Burkett pitching the final game of his career against Andy Pettite. If we somehow win, it will be because we used Wakefield and Lowe out of the pen. I guarantee, if it goes to a seventh game, Mussina and Wells won't be in the pen for the Yanks-they don't need them. Its not fate. Its arms. And slumping bats. And its not fate for the Cubs either. Its Baker, like Grady Little, being so certain that a struggling pitcher is still better than anyone in the pen that you leave him out there too long. After the funky foul ball, it was obvious Prior had little left. And yet no one was even getting warm. Same thing for Lowe in the 8th inning when he was clearly tiring and the Yankees scored that insurance run. And it all started in Game one of the A's series. Little was so insistent that Pedro was the whole game, he ended up throwing 130 pitches in a no-decision and he hasn't been the same since. Quote
Brad Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 It's not solely fate but in essence I agree with you. What people call the curse is not only superior talent but the knowledge by the Yankees players that the Yankees could beat the Red Sox. And even the Red Sox players knew or know that. What is the reason to explain repeated failures by this team at the hands of New York teams. It's certainly not fate but it's talent and it's also history weighing down on them. Even after they lost in '86, Dewey Evans thought there might be something to the gods conspiring against them. Although it's often cited, Game 6 of '86 is a good example. They let their guard down and the Mets who were a superior team but had not played like that did them in. They had no business winning but I think the Red Sox were starting to drink that champagne before the 27th out had been recorded. It's primarily talent but don't believe for a second that history doesn't weigh on some of these players' minds. Quote
catesta Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Great game lastnight. I wonder what kind of a day the guy that tried to grab the ball is having today. Quote
Brad Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 (edited) I heard that security kept him in a separate room and didn't let him leave Wrigley until everybody else had left. In all fairness, he wasn't the only one going for the ball and it was a natural reaction. I'll bet I would have done the same thing. His situation kind of reminds me that Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry injures Shaquille while sitting at courtside and everybody yells at him wherever he goes. Trouble is, this is real, not fiction. For his sake, I hope the Cubs win tonight. Edited October 15, 2003 by Brad Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 (edited) It's not solely fate but in essence I agree with you. What people call the curse is not only superior talent but the knowledge by the Yankees players that the Yankees could beat the Red Sox. And even the Red Sox players knew or know that. What is the reason to explain repeated failures by this team at the hands of New York teams. It's certainly not fate but it's talent and it's also history weighing down on them. Even after they lost in '86, Dewey Evans thought there might be something to the gods conspiring against them. Although it's often cited, Game 6 of '86 is a good example. They let their guard down and the Mets who were a superior team but had not played like that did them in. They had no business winning but I think the Red Sox were starting to drink that champagne before the 27th out had been recorded. It's primarily talent but don't believe for a second that history doesn't weigh on some of these players' minds. I disagree completely. No one playing today played in '86. The manager wanted Buckner on the field for the last inning, ignoring the fact that Dave Stapleton was his defensive replacement in every game they won. Schiraldi was in the minors with Kevin Mitchell and they talked about how they'd deal with each other if they ever faced off with the game on the line, and Schiraldi actually followed that script, throwing a crappy slider that Mitchell wacked for the first basehit of the inning. Yes, the Yankees have cornered the market in confidence they will win but that doesn't mean that Nomar and Manny are standing up there saying "oh my God I can't take this pressure, millions of people relying on little old me. And anyway, we're fated to lose, so let me just wiff at this fastball so I can head back to California/Miami." The Yankees have superior pitching and our hitters have, not entirely coincidentally, gone into a funk. That's what good pitching does. With the Yankees losing Clemens and probably Wells, next year is the best chance the Red Sox will have for some time, considering that the core of this team is still signed through next season, but after that, people like Pedro, Nomar, Varitek and Nixon will leave because they can't afford to sign all of them again. So while they can, they have to capitalize and they should head into next year with Scott Williamson as the closer, Timlin and Embree and one more setup man, Kim given an opportunity to start, and concentrate the checkbook on a true frontline starter like Colon, or else trade for Curt Schilling. Oh, and get rid of Todd Walker, he gives away too many runs with his glove, and replace him with a good field, OK hit second baseman. With the rest of the lineup back, no one will miss Walker. Edited October 15, 2003 by Dan Gould Quote
catesta Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 His situation kind of reminds me that Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry injures Shaquille while sitting at courtside and everybody yells at him wherever he goes. I remember that. Quote
Brad Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Well, I hope you're right about next year team's because it always seems the Yankees always find a way to get what they want. It's nice to have $185 million to spend. I don't their rotation, however, will be as bad as you make it out to be. They'll have Mussina, Petite (presumably), Wells (I believe he'll be around), Contreras (possibly) and he'll go out and get a pitcher; I'm sure Millwood would fit in nicely for them as a number 3 starter. Regarding '86, let's not forget that Mitchell was not the only guy to get a hit off Schiraldi and company. There was a reason Schiraldi was traded; the guy was just not that good. And it wasn't just because we had Roger and Jesse. Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 15, 2003 Report Posted October 15, 2003 Hell yes, Schiraldi stunk. And he was the best we had for that situation. Again, talent. As for the Yankees, what 185 million dollar payroll? I bet it tops 200 just to keep the Sox off of them. But we'll see if Pettite goes home to Texas and Wells to San Diego. Of course, winning has a way of overwhelming other considerations. So if the Yankees are somehow stopped, I bet Pettite and Wells will be gone, along with the entire front office and hopefully, Torre too. Quote
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